RE: Fight Gatsos with 'Gatso man'
Monday 16th May 2005
Not as accurate as it looksBeen flashed by a Gatso? David Edgar, the 'Gatso man' who intends to prove that Gatso speed cameras over-read and therefore help convict the innocent, has issued useful advice to those accused of speeding. We first reported on Edgar's fight against inaccurate Gatsos back in January this year (see links below).
Fight Gatsos with 'Gatso man'
David Edgar extracts photo evidence from police
Not as accurate as it looks
Edgar's Web site (link below) provides the legal ammunition you need to get information out of the police regarding the evidence against you. This could be the first step towards checking that the evidence the police are using to prosecute you is in fact correct -- including whether or not the Gatso was over-reading.
The police are, said Edgar, legally bound to provide you with it under the Road Traffic Act of 1988, Section 172 (3), provided the accused can show "to the satisfaction of the court that he did not know and could not with reasonable diligence have ascertained who the driver of the vehicle or, as the case may be, the rider of the cycle was."
Discussion
Don't want to upset the cart, but how can a photo of (presumably) the back of the vehicle help to identify the driver, even if the driver's head can be seen?
Similarly, how can a violation of the data protection act be claimed when the driver (the victim of the violation) is claimed to be unknown.
If the police do furnish a copy of the photo, how does that help the defence?
Paul.
Similarly, how can a violation of the data protection act be claimed when the driver (the victim of the violation) is claimed to be unknown.
If the police do furnish a copy of the photo, how does that help the defence?
Paul.
Unless you know for sure you were speeding and caught, then you should ask for a copy of the photograph.
A friend of mine was on a business visit from Aberdeen to a ship berthed in Leith Edinburgh. He always signed the ships log on arrival, (good job he did), anyway he got a letter for an "alledged" speeding offence in KENT. He contacted the local plod involved and explained where he was, and how he could prove it if need be.
To cut a long story short, "They" had misread the plate on the car, and even if they hadn't I think that his signature in a ships official bridge log would have been sufficient to prove he wasn't in Kent at the time.
A friend of mine was on a business visit from Aberdeen to a ship berthed in Leith Edinburgh. He always signed the ships log on arrival, (good job he did), anyway he got a letter for an "alledged" speeding offence in KENT. He contacted the local plod involved and explained where he was, and how he could prove it if need be.
To cut a long story short, "They" had misread the plate on the car, and even if they hadn't I think that his signature in a ships official bridge log would have been sufficient to prove he wasn't in Kent at the time.
Won't repeat myself for the umpteenth time about the Conditional offer procedure and nothing in law for them to disclose the photo/anything until summons issued.
Whehhey another try on with the DPA.
Now as I understand it if it was you in the photo then yes they have to disclose but by writing back then you do not know who is in the photo then a person could be identified as another individual.
Under Section 7 of the said Act then they can refeuse to disclose where it relates to another individual who can be identified unless that individual has consented to disclose to person making the request. Catch 22?
Hey come on this cannot remember the driver scenario is becoming a bit thin is it not to the detriment of those with a genuine case?. NOIP sent out within 7 - 10 days of the offence. Cannot remember who was driving? More fish in the diet or trip to Quack?
Starts to get more plausible where multi/vehicle/drivers involved but cast you mind back to the post some time ago about the chap who made a successful appeal having been convicted of failing to name. Remember too that Judge at Appeal Court whilst granting the appeal did say in these circumstances records should be kept. So now this gem of wisdom can be quoted by CPS against you if you haven't.
DVD
Whehhey another try on with the DPA.
Now as I understand it if it was you in the photo then yes they have to disclose but by writing back then you do not know who is in the photo then a person could be identified as another individual.
Under Section 7 of the said Act then they can refeuse to disclose where it relates to another individual who can be identified unless that individual has consented to disclose to person making the request. Catch 22?
Hey come on this cannot remember the driver scenario is becoming a bit thin is it not to the detriment of those with a genuine case?. NOIP sent out within 7 - 10 days of the offence. Cannot remember who was driving? More fish in the diet or trip to Quack?
Starts to get more plausible where multi/vehicle/drivers involved but cast you mind back to the post some time ago about the chap who made a successful appeal having been convicted of failing to name. Remember too that Judge at Appeal Court whilst granting the appeal did say in these circumstances records should be kept. So now this gem of wisdom can be quoted by CPS against you if you haven't.
DVD
Not wishing to disagree with my owd mate DVD but I will just for the hell of it. (Especially following that job suggestion in an email t'other day. Part time Scam operator indeed! Even if it was tongue in cheek! Gadzooks have at you sir! )
This 7-10 days bit doesn't apply to company lease cars.
Day 1. Offence committed by Duncan Disorderly, southern area rep for Widgets Я Us. Out on a customer visit with his boss Hugh Janus.
Day 10 NoIP sent off to leasing company "Hey Up John wanna new Motah"
Who have 28 days to reply but they are fairly efficient and reply within 14.
Day 24 reply from leasing co.
7-10 days later West Middleshire SCAMPs send out a second NoIP.
Day 34 NoIP(2) arrives at Widgets Я Us.
W Я Us fleet bod off on vacation for next two weeks, and on return faced with umpty dozen e mails suggesting all number of delights ranging from "Why can't I have XXXXX as my next company car" to numerous exhortations for medication promising to enhance certain trouser furniture items. Finally W Я Us fleet bod gets round to dealing with Duncan Disorderly's NoIP during his first week back at work, so it's taken 3 weeks to reply.
Day 55 Widgets Я Us returns NoIp (2) to WM SCAMPs naming and shaming Mr Disorderly
Day 65 NoIP arrives at No7 Letsby Avenue abode of one Duncan Disorderly.
Now can anyone else remember off the top of head what they were doing 65 days ago? I can't and I keep a brief record of every journey, OK OK anally retentive I know but once in the notebook habit bla bla.
Accepted in DD/HJ case because of the customer visit they might have a better aide memoire as to what when and where.
However I do most strongly agree with DVD that the repeated wriggling attempts by all and sundry does make life more difficult for anyone who is genuinely in doubt about, who, place, time and actual velocity.
Hopefully a serious point put across not so seriously as per usual.
FiF
>> Edited by Flat in Fifth on Tuesday 17th May 11:10
This 7-10 days bit doesn't apply to company lease cars.
Day 1. Offence committed by Duncan Disorderly, southern area rep for Widgets Я Us. Out on a customer visit with his boss Hugh Janus.
Day 10 NoIP sent off to leasing company "Hey Up John wanna new Motah"
Who have 28 days to reply but they are fairly efficient and reply within 14.
Day 24 reply from leasing co.
7-10 days later West Middleshire SCAMPs send out a second NoIP.
Day 34 NoIP(2) arrives at Widgets Я Us.
W Я Us fleet bod off on vacation for next two weeks, and on return faced with umpty dozen e mails suggesting all number of delights ranging from "Why can't I have XXXXX as my next company car" to numerous exhortations for medication promising to enhance certain trouser furniture items. Finally W Я Us fleet bod gets round to dealing with Duncan Disorderly's NoIP during his first week back at work, so it's taken 3 weeks to reply.
Day 55 Widgets Я Us returns NoIp (2) to WM SCAMPs naming and shaming Mr Disorderly
Day 65 NoIP arrives at No7 Letsby Avenue abode of one Duncan Disorderly.
Now can anyone else remember off the top of head what they were doing 65 days ago? I can't and I keep a brief record of every journey, OK OK anally retentive I know but once in the notebook habit bla bla.
Accepted in DD/HJ case because of the customer visit they might have a better aide memoire as to what when and where.
However I do most strongly agree with DVD that the repeated wriggling attempts by all and sundry does make life more difficult for anyone who is genuinely in doubt about, who, place, time and actual velocity.
Hopefully a serious point put across not so seriously as per usual.
FiF
>> Edited by Flat in Fifth on Tuesday 17th May 11:10
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