Writing A Will - Protective Property Trust And Cost
Discussion
We need to write a Will with the main asset being our house.
The slight complication being we have two independent children (from a previous relationship) and two younger ones.
The Paralegal suggested we should have a protective property trust - a quick google has very conflicting advice on these - the fees suggested also seemed high.
Simply put as there are step children and a large age gap involved and if we both died tomorrow the house would have to be sold to pay for the youngest to be raised - what type of Will and what type of scenarios should be considered ?
The Paralegal seemed amazed that I didn't think it was reasonable for the money to be split 4 ways with the youngest 2 then having to pay for their upbringing out of their share - meaning they could well end up with substantially less when they have left education.
What is a reasonable cost for drawing it up ?
What type of fees are there for storage, alteration etc ?
Thanks
The slight complication being we have two independent children (from a previous relationship) and two younger ones.
The Paralegal suggested we should have a protective property trust - a quick google has very conflicting advice on these - the fees suggested also seemed high.
Simply put as there are step children and a large age gap involved and if we both died tomorrow the house would have to be sold to pay for the youngest to be raised - what type of Will and what type of scenarios should be considered ?
The Paralegal seemed amazed that I didn't think it was reasonable for the money to be split 4 ways with the youngest 2 then having to pay for their upbringing out of their share - meaning they could well end up with substantially less when they have left education.
What is a reasonable cost for drawing it up ?
What type of fees are there for storage, alteration etc ?
Thanks
I had a cost the other year, from memory it was circa 2k including the fees (may be more may be less).
The thing to be careful of is who you will assign to manage the trust as trustees. Due to family complications I chose to ignore my head and seek the firm to act as trustees. At the point of signing I re-read their conditions and I wasn't impressed at the power they had to completely overturn the intention of the will if "they deemed it in the interest of the estate" coupled to fees I never followed it through.
The thing to be careful of is who you will assign to manage the trust as trustees. Due to family complications I chose to ignore my head and seek the firm to act as trustees. At the point of signing I re-read their conditions and I wasn't impressed at the power they had to completely overturn the intention of the will if "they deemed it in the interest of the estate" coupled to fees I never followed it through.
Tread very carefully indeed. Money is well spent on a good solicitor who can talk through the various possibilities and fallacies. Strongly advise you to search for a member of STEP - Society of Trust and Estate Practitioners, especially as you are considering setting up a trust.
Assets - do you and/or partner have life insurance, income protection, employment death in service benefits etc that would mean the mortgage would be paid off or a lump sum paid on your death if unexpected and whilst still relatively young?
Previously relationships - are you and your partner legally married> If not, and if you haven't already divorced your previous partner(s) then on your death potentially everything automatically goes to them whether you like it or not, if you haven't written a will. Is that your wish.
Storage - minimal. Normally the will goes in the solicitor's safe. But for goodness sake get it registered with the online will registry and ensure your executors know who holds it in the event of your death!
Review - for a minimal sum every few years it's worth revising it. Circumstances change. What if you don't die until your youngest children have gone through university, paid off all their debts and got high flying jobs, would you still want them to get most of your assets if your step children were living in relative poverty/had children of their own with disabilities limiting their income earning potential? Etc Etc.
I am no lawyer but have had experience of these matters and the help of a STEP solicitor was invaluable and well worth the fee.
Assets - do you and/or partner have life insurance, income protection, employment death in service benefits etc that would mean the mortgage would be paid off or a lump sum paid on your death if unexpected and whilst still relatively young?
Previously relationships - are you and your partner legally married> If not, and if you haven't already divorced your previous partner(s) then on your death potentially everything automatically goes to them whether you like it or not, if you haven't written a will. Is that your wish.
Storage - minimal. Normally the will goes in the solicitor's safe. But for goodness sake get it registered with the online will registry and ensure your executors know who holds it in the event of your death!
Review - for a minimal sum every few years it's worth revising it. Circumstances change. What if you don't die until your youngest children have gone through university, paid off all their debts and got high flying jobs, would you still want them to get most of your assets if your step children were living in relative poverty/had children of their own with disabilities limiting their income earning potential? Etc Etc.
I am no lawyer but have had experience of these matters and the help of a STEP solicitor was invaluable and well worth the fee.
Seems really simple.
You think thee needs to be some sort of positive bias to the younger kids. No problem, you work that out.
You want to leave the elder 2 something, here’s some options:
Splits..
5/5/45/45
10/10/40/40
15/15/35/35
20/20/30/30
And the ones you don’t like
25/25/25/25
My favourite
0/0/50/50
It is entirely up to you. Get an advisor and your funds will dwindle.
If you have kids that are clamouring for their “entitlement” then 0 is their share. If you have kids that care for you then they are sure to want you and your wife to use it for yourselves. If that includes saving some for them then just split it up how you both want it to be split up. Write that down, have it witnessed and place the will in a safe place and make sure you appoint a trustworthy executor. The latter may well not be a solicitor
You think thee needs to be some sort of positive bias to the younger kids. No problem, you work that out.
You want to leave the elder 2 something, here’s some options:
Splits..
5/5/45/45
10/10/40/40
15/15/35/35
20/20/30/30
And the ones you don’t like
25/25/25/25
My favourite
0/0/50/50
It is entirely up to you. Get an advisor and your funds will dwindle.
If you have kids that are clamouring for their “entitlement” then 0 is their share. If you have kids that care for you then they are sure to want you and your wife to use it for yourselves. If that includes saving some for them then just split it up how you both want it to be split up. Write that down, have it witnessed and place the will in a safe place and make sure you appoint a trustworthy executor. The latter may well not be a solicitor
Thanks
It isn't that simple as it also depends when we die (hopefully 25+ years)
For simplicity lets say my only asset is a £1m house - I'm thinking £225k each plus £100k pot
The eldest has said she would raise the youngest 2
My initial thoughts were she should raise them in the house but she wouldn't have the money to do that.
So they could sell the house then buy one with the youngest two's share (£450k) and use the 100k fund to raise them.
The house could then be sold when the youngest finishes education and divided by 2.
When I suggested this to the Paralegal she said it was far too complicated - seemed simple to me.
Two executors in charge of the pot - one family, one old friend.
The first question - does that sound sensible
The second is will £100k support 2 kids for 8 & 10 years in a mortgage free house ?
It doesn't sound like much - the Paralegal said not to leave anything as the State will provide all they need, at which point I lost all faith in her and posted on here !
The PPT part sounded sensible - it was explained to me that if I die and leave 25/25/25/25 then £500k (my half) will immediately be placed in trust and held for the kids so that if my wife became a gambler / alcoholic etc their inheritance is protected - in the house my wife is living in, so she couldn't downsize to a house of less than £500k which seemed reasonable.
It isn't that simple as it also depends when we die (hopefully 25+ years)
For simplicity lets say my only asset is a £1m house - I'm thinking £225k each plus £100k pot
The eldest has said she would raise the youngest 2
My initial thoughts were she should raise them in the house but she wouldn't have the money to do that.
So they could sell the house then buy one with the youngest two's share (£450k) and use the 100k fund to raise them.
The house could then be sold when the youngest finishes education and divided by 2.
When I suggested this to the Paralegal she said it was far too complicated - seemed simple to me.
Two executors in charge of the pot - one family, one old friend.
The first question - does that sound sensible
The second is will £100k support 2 kids for 8 & 10 years in a mortgage free house ?
It doesn't sound like much - the Paralegal said not to leave anything as the State will provide all they need, at which point I lost all faith in her and posted on here !
The PPT part sounded sensible - it was explained to me that if I die and leave 25/25/25/25 then £500k (my half) will immediately be placed in trust and held for the kids so that if my wife became a gambler / alcoholic etc their inheritance is protected - in the house my wife is living in, so she couldn't downsize to a house of less than £500k which seemed reasonable.
Chromegrill said:
Tread very carefully indeed. Money is well spent on a good solicitor who can talk through the various possibilities and fallacies. Strongly advise you to search for a member of STEP - Society of Trust and Estate Practitioners, especially as you are considering setting up a trust.
^^^ Very much this. ^^^I should point out the Mrs is a member of STEP so I might be biased, but not having a properly drafted will can be a very expensive business. A mate of mine was going to pay an unnecessary £200k IHT bill, until my wife saw the will. It had been drafted by a paralegal as a free service from a high street bank, and was basically a copy and paste job, and totally failed to take account individual circumstances.
You might think your requirements are simple, but until you have talked to an professional with expertise in this area, how can you be sure.
If it were me with dependants I would have a life insurance policy in place to ensure that they have enough resources to get to 21.
Any estate assets is split equally after that.
Policies may or may not be put in trust depending on value IHT etc.
It might actually be worth you speaking to an IFA if you're wandering into the hundreds of thousands territory, but get a good handle on the charges/costs.
Any estate assets is split equally after that.
Policies may or may not be put in trust depending on value IHT etc.
It might actually be worth you speaking to an IFA if you're wandering into the hundreds of thousands territory, but get a good handle on the charges/costs.
V8RX7 said:
...
For simplicity lets say my only asset is a £1m house - I'm thinking £225k each plus £100k pot
...
You will need to account for losing 40% of everything you leave above the £325,000 Inheritance Tax limit of course. So your £1,000,000 is reduced to £730,000 immediately when your executor registers your estate with the tax man. A £270,000 tax bill. Ouch.For simplicity lets say my only asset is a £1m house - I'm thinking £225k each plus £100k pot
...
If you or your wife or your kids don't have that in cash after the last one of you dies then they won't be living in your £1,000,000 house I think.
Repel_Max said:
V8RX7 said:
...
For simplicity lets say my only asset is a £1m house - I'm thinking £225k each plus £100k pot
...
You will need to account for losing 40% of everything you leave above the £325,000 Inheritance Tax limit of course. So your £1,000,000 is reduced to £730,000 immediately when your executor registers your estate with the tax man. A £270,000 tax bill. Ouch.For simplicity lets say my only asset is a £1m house - I'm thinking £225k each plus £100k pot
...
If you or your wife or your kids don't have that in cash after the last one of you dies then they won't be living in your £1,000,000 house I think.
Recently paid £3.2k for two wills and trusts, the same for myself and my wife.
We were offered either a Next Generation or a Family Protection Wills, with the former there is no trust on first death and the estate of the first spouse to die passes to the other absolutely to do with as they wish and potentially exposed to third party claims..
With the Family Protection , protection is given at both stages. Firstly on the first death by inclusion of the flexible life interest for the survivor and then on second death named siblings, persons etc.. This type of will presupposes that you hold your property/ies as tenants in common.
Together with the above we have attached to our wills, our letters expressing our wishes, why we have excluded one sibling from our wills.
We were offered either a Next Generation or a Family Protection Wills, with the former there is no trust on first death and the estate of the first spouse to die passes to the other absolutely to do with as they wish and potentially exposed to third party claims..
With the Family Protection , protection is given at both stages. Firstly on the first death by inclusion of the flexible life interest for the survivor and then on second death named siblings, persons etc.. This type of will presupposes that you hold your property/ies as tenants in common.
Together with the above we have attached to our wills, our letters expressing our wishes, why we have excluded one sibling from our wills.
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff