Car Dealers Pretending They Are Auctions
Discussion
I've seen a few Car Dealers advertising on AutoTrader stating that they are Auctions - which they clearly aren't.
I presume they do this to avoid Consumer Rights
Whilst I personally don't have a problem with this - if you wish to buy under "trade terms" I think that's your decision.
However I presume they can't legally get away with it
EG
http://www.binca.co.uk/
I presume they do this to avoid Consumer Rights
Whilst I personally don't have a problem with this - if you wish to buy under "trade terms" I think that's your decision.
However I presume they can't legally get away with it
EG
http://www.binca.co.uk/
If it came to court I can't see that they would get away with it. Reading the terms, there is no genuine auction, they presumably have a charade set up where they start the "auction" you place your "bid" (which can only be the fixed price) then you win it and complete the sale. If you were a regular retail buyer you'd get all the statutory rights of a retail sale.
Any sane person would avoid this type of outfit, no matter how cheap the cars are - not necessarily because buying "trade" is risky, but because they are using clearly manipulative tactics, which raises questions as to general honesty.
The wording used is very confusing too, some snippets from the one posted:
"Once you arrive at our site, you will be taken to the auction yard where you'll be able to look at the current lots available. "
"On our storage site, the only staff we have are key handlers, drivers and payment clarks, there is no need for an auctioneer or a salesperson hence no need for negotiation."
(from an ebay listing) "Bidding will commence upon the arrival of more than one buyer. If there is only one buyer, the vehicle can be paid for and bought on the spot"
Any sane person would avoid this type of outfit, no matter how cheap the cars are - not necessarily because buying "trade" is risky, but because they are using clearly manipulative tactics, which raises questions as to general honesty.
The wording used is very confusing too, some snippets from the one posted:
"Once you arrive at our site, you will be taken to the auction yard where you'll be able to look at the current lots available. "
"On our storage site, the only staff we have are key handlers, drivers and payment clarks, there is no need for an auctioneer or a salesperson hence no need for negotiation."
(from an ebay listing) "Bidding will commence upon the arrival of more than one buyer. If there is only one buyer, the vehicle can be paid for and bought on the spot"
Edited by Gareth79 on Thursday 7th February 18:26
The Consumer Rights Act 2015 has something to say about auctions.
CRA 2015, 2.2:
"(5) For the purposes of Chapter 2, except to the extent mentioned in subsection (6),
a person is not a consumer in relation to a sales contract if—
(a) the goods are second hand goods sold at public auction, and
(b) individuals have the opportunity of attending the sale in person"
The sale method is not via public auction, but Dutch auction with one customer. Therefore, it is not a public auction, and the Consumer Rights Act applies (in my belief.) Further,
CRA 2015, 62.4:
"A term is unfair if, contrary to the requirement of good faith, it causes a significant imbalance in the parties’ rights and obligations under the contract to the detriment of the consumer."
CRA 2015, 62.6:
"A notice is unfair if, contrary to the requirement of good faith, it causes a significant imbalance in the parties’ rights and obligations to the detriment of the consumer."
These terms and conditions create an extremely unfair trading relationship:
- The customer is only allowed to test drive on site (as vehicles are uninsured)
- The notice about vehicles sold as-is is buried at the bottom of the Terms page and in long paragraphs, and is NOT printed on any given advertisement
- The customer cannot even have the vehicles mechanically inspected
- The customer has no right to refusal
- The vehicle condition is described but with no way for the consumer to test
Further: "We are not a retail car sales, all of our vehicles are sold on trade to trade auction terms and everyone who purchases one of our cars will be singing to agree that they are in the motor trade. This is good for you because as a buyer, you get a choice of cars at trade value which means more saving for you."
You cannot sign to "agree you are in the motor trade" and sign away your rights. It is never possible to sign such an agreement and have it legally binding, when the very statement is just untrue and the trader is well aware of this.
They're cowboys, don't buy from them - but if you did, I'm certain a judge would laugh in their face about things being sold "as-is". Unless it is a public auction, with multiple participants, and vehicles are clearly advertised "as-is-where-is" (e.g. British Car Auctions) then it's not an auction, it's a way of masquerading to sell probably dodgy vehicles to consumers who know no better.
Having had to deal with a vehicle that failed two weeks after I purchased it, I'm VERY glad the CRA is there to give some solid legal guidance on the matter.
CRA 2015, 2.2:
"(5) For the purposes of Chapter 2, except to the extent mentioned in subsection (6),
a person is not a consumer in relation to a sales contract if—
(a) the goods are second hand goods sold at public auction, and
(b) individuals have the opportunity of attending the sale in person"
The sale method is not via public auction, but Dutch auction with one customer. Therefore, it is not a public auction, and the Consumer Rights Act applies (in my belief.) Further,
CRA 2015, 62.4:
"A term is unfair if, contrary to the requirement of good faith, it causes a significant imbalance in the parties’ rights and obligations under the contract to the detriment of the consumer."
CRA 2015, 62.6:
"A notice is unfair if, contrary to the requirement of good faith, it causes a significant imbalance in the parties’ rights and obligations to the detriment of the consumer."
These terms and conditions create an extremely unfair trading relationship:
- The customer is only allowed to test drive on site (as vehicles are uninsured)
- The notice about vehicles sold as-is is buried at the bottom of the Terms page and in long paragraphs, and is NOT printed on any given advertisement
- The customer cannot even have the vehicles mechanically inspected
- The customer has no right to refusal
- The vehicle condition is described but with no way for the consumer to test
Further: "We are not a retail car sales, all of our vehicles are sold on trade to trade auction terms and everyone who purchases one of our cars will be singing to agree that they are in the motor trade. This is good for you because as a buyer, you get a choice of cars at trade value which means more saving for you."
You cannot sign to "agree you are in the motor trade" and sign away your rights. It is never possible to sign such an agreement and have it legally binding, when the very statement is just untrue and the trader is well aware of this.
They're cowboys, don't buy from them - but if you did, I'm certain a judge would laugh in their face about things being sold "as-is". Unless it is a public auction, with multiple participants, and vehicles are clearly advertised "as-is-where-is" (e.g. British Car Auctions) then it's not an auction, it's a way of masquerading to sell probably dodgy vehicles to consumers who know no better.
Having had to deal with a vehicle that failed two weeks after I purchased it, I'm VERY glad the CRA is there to give some solid legal guidance on the matter.
Edited by tom667 on Thursday 7th February 18:36
This thread highlights a point that's boiled my pee for years.
Why should public auctions be able to sell unchecked, potentially dangerous, cars to the public and allow them to drive away?
Why are they not classed as car dealers?
They are selling cars to the general public aren't they?
If there's anyone on here that's high up in consumer direct I'd love your opinion on this.
Why should public auctions be able to sell unchecked, potentially dangerous, cars to the public and allow them to drive away?
Why are they not classed as car dealers?
They are selling cars to the general public aren't they?
If there's anyone on here that's high up in consumer direct I'd love your opinion on this.
tom667 said:
The sale method is not via public auction, but Dutch auction with one customer. Therefore, it is not a public auction, and the Consumer Rights Act applies (in my belief.)
I'm not sure it would even be viewed as a genuine auction - it has no published start times and they likely never involve more than one genuine 'bidder', and it always ends at the advertised price of the car.Stenasev said:
Roy the Boy said:
Stenasev said:
This bit in the t&c's amused me..
"everyone who purchases one of our cars will be singing to agree that they are in the motor trade"
That's a means of not having to provide a warranty!"everyone who purchases one of our cars will be singing to agree that they are in the motor trade"
Riley Blue said:
Sheepshanks said:
It's the kind of thing that Trading Standards would have jumped on years ago, but they barely exist now.
Trading standards are administered by councils, Central Bedfordshire Council in this case.Dish out some large fines for infringing peoples statutory rights by asking them to lie about them being in the trade.
Edited by Trevor555 on Friday 8th February 20:31
Riley Blue said:
Sheepshanks said:
It's the kind of thing that Trading Standards would have jumped on years ago, but they barely exist now.
Trading standards are administered by councils, Central Bedfordshire Council in this case.There should be a way for dealers to sell cars 'as is / as seen' for lower than market price to savvy buyers.
There really should.
This is not the way for it and its shambolic their local trading standards must be inundated as will most trading standards offices with a 'trade centre type outlets' selling poorly prepped s
te with no come back.
We run a car dealership and list rubbish part exchanges with faults on ebay with brutal descriptions and total honesty but we make it clear exactly what they are and are selective with who we sell to.
There really should.
This is not the way for it and its shambolic their local trading standards must be inundated as will most trading standards offices with a 'trade centre type outlets' selling poorly prepped s
te with no come back. We run a car dealership and list rubbish part exchanges with faults on ebay with brutal descriptions and total honesty but we make it clear exactly what they are and are selective with who we sell to.
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