Can Police seize an unroadworthy vehicle?
Discussion
I know police can seize cars for no insurance, obstruction, dangerous parking etc.
I know they can prohibit a vehicle from moving any further through use of PG9, however if they are not PG9 trained, or have nobody who can prohibit, can they seize?
This link https://www.app.college.police.uk/app-content/road...
from colleage of policing states police can seize for dangously conditioned vehicles, but i cannot find any power or legislation in law around this.
Say police stop a vehicle with no lights, 3 bald tyres, bumper hanging off etc. Obviously they can issue tickets, but they cant seize it? And even if someone then drives off in front of the police who have just given a prohibition notice, the only offence would be driving in contravention of this notice, and the police still cant seize it?
It's confusing that if a vehicle is blocking a slight bit of a driveway or dropped kerb, it can be snatched, but barreling down the motorway at 70mph in a 3.5t van with bald tyres and no brakes has no seizure power?
I know they can prohibit a vehicle from moving any further through use of PG9, however if they are not PG9 trained, or have nobody who can prohibit, can they seize?
This link https://www.app.college.police.uk/app-content/road...
from colleage of policing states police can seize for dangously conditioned vehicles, but i cannot find any power or legislation in law around this.
Say police stop a vehicle with no lights, 3 bald tyres, bumper hanging off etc. Obviously they can issue tickets, but they cant seize it? And even if someone then drives off in front of the police who have just given a prohibition notice, the only offence would be driving in contravention of this notice, and the police still cant seize it?
It's confusing that if a vehicle is blocking a slight bit of a driveway or dropped kerb, it can be snatched, but barreling down the motorway at 70mph in a 3.5t van with bald tyres and no brakes has no seizure power?
Grahamdub said:
They used to seize unroadworthy cars in the old days of the cruises. I guess they still can ?
Memory is rusty but I thought at cruises the seized ones were usually for insurance or licence issues?I got a lot of vehicle defect VDR notices when at cruises....usually for number plates or tail lights, or in one case because they deemed it too low
Had to get it stamped by an MOT station then take it in.
Edited by GCH on Thursday 7th February 18:22
I saw this tweet from CMPG earlier about prohibiting (rather than seize) a vehicle from being used.
https://twitter.com/CMPG/status/109355487745898496...
https://twitter.com/CMPG/status/109355487745898496...
A divisional officer stopping a wreck will have to call an authorised officer to the scene who will normally though not exclusively be traffic
There are two types of PG9 prohibitions
1. Drive away and get it fixed then present it roadworthy
2. Instant prohibition which means it has to be taken away on a low loader or it will be immobilised ( clamped ) on the spot (usually LGV offences drivers hours/overweight etc)
The police wouldn’t normally seize the vehicle .. but often there are other offences present that would cause seizure ( tax/ins/dl)
https://www.gov.uk/roadside-vehicle-checks-for-com...
There are two types of PG9 prohibitions
1. Drive away and get it fixed then present it roadworthy
2. Instant prohibition which means it has to be taken away on a low loader or it will be immobilised ( clamped ) on the spot (usually LGV offences drivers hours/overweight etc)
The police wouldn’t normally seize the vehicle .. but often there are other offences present that would cause seizure ( tax/ins/dl)
https://www.gov.uk/roadside-vehicle-checks-for-com...
So, the Police stop a vehicle. This vehicle is deemed unroadworthy. Let's say, for example, the brakes are defective and the tyres all have cord exposed.
A Police officer trained as a vehicle examiner (pg9 trained), checks the vehicle at the roadside, and confirms this is the case. He determines the vehicle poses immediate danger. (Sec 67 rta gives the bobby the power to 'detain' the vehicle for the examination), and sec69 gives them the right to issue prohibition.
The officer issues the probhibition (PG9), meaning the vehicle now cannot be moved or driven legally. It has been 'prohibited'. At least until repairs are complete, an MOT test (or whatever class of vehicle test is required) is done, and the prohibition is then removed when the constable is satiisfied. If the driver gets a low loader to take it away for repairs, then fine, all is good. If the driver locks it up, and it's parked legally, and says they will leave it where it is, and get a low loader to take it away a few days later, then all is good again.
However, what if the driver has the intention to continue driving. I cannot find any legislation that gives police power to seized the vehicle as unroadworthy. All they can do is issue the prohibition, which basically tells the driver they cant use it, that it is dangerous, and if they do drive it in contravention of the PG9, then they commit an offence. If the driver says "thanks for the pg9" and goes to drive off anyway, what power do Police have to seize? None? (lets assume licence, insurance etc all in order).
On a similar note, the prohibition essentially states the vehicle cannot be driven legally. I would assume this is by the driver, lewis hamilton, the queen, or even the cop themselves. It's a dangerous vehicle, simple as, and it's been prohibited from driving. So if the vehicle is stopped on the motorway, I assume it could then be seized under obstruction/stopping powers, as it can't be driven legally, and it can't be parked there, and if the owner cant get a low loader themselves to remove it, then the Police will do it? Could you say the same applies when stopped on an A-road, but its stopped blocking a driveway. It cant be legally driven or moved by anyone, and is now blocking a drive/junction etc, so again, seizure for this?
It feels like a bit of a rule bending workaround to get an unroadworthy vehicle impounded, but I think its obscure that theres no legislation to seize an unroadowrthy vehicle, but if it's partially blocking Doris' dropped kerb that she never uses, the Police can have it away.
Thoughts?
A Police officer trained as a vehicle examiner (pg9 trained), checks the vehicle at the roadside, and confirms this is the case. He determines the vehicle poses immediate danger. (Sec 67 rta gives the bobby the power to 'detain' the vehicle for the examination), and sec69 gives them the right to issue prohibition.
The officer issues the probhibition (PG9), meaning the vehicle now cannot be moved or driven legally. It has been 'prohibited'. At least until repairs are complete, an MOT test (or whatever class of vehicle test is required) is done, and the prohibition is then removed when the constable is satiisfied. If the driver gets a low loader to take it away for repairs, then fine, all is good. If the driver locks it up, and it's parked legally, and says they will leave it where it is, and get a low loader to take it away a few days later, then all is good again.
However, what if the driver has the intention to continue driving. I cannot find any legislation that gives police power to seized the vehicle as unroadworthy. All they can do is issue the prohibition, which basically tells the driver they cant use it, that it is dangerous, and if they do drive it in contravention of the PG9, then they commit an offence. If the driver says "thanks for the pg9" and goes to drive off anyway, what power do Police have to seize? None? (lets assume licence, insurance etc all in order).
On a similar note, the prohibition essentially states the vehicle cannot be driven legally. I would assume this is by the driver, lewis hamilton, the queen, or even the cop themselves. It's a dangerous vehicle, simple as, and it's been prohibited from driving. So if the vehicle is stopped on the motorway, I assume it could then be seized under obstruction/stopping powers, as it can't be driven legally, and it can't be parked there, and if the owner cant get a low loader themselves to remove it, then the Police will do it? Could you say the same applies when stopped on an A-road, but its stopped blocking a driveway. It cant be legally driven or moved by anyone, and is now blocking a drive/junction etc, so again, seizure for this?
It feels like a bit of a rule bending workaround to get an unroadworthy vehicle impounded, but I think its obscure that theres no legislation to seize an unroadowrthy vehicle, but if it's partially blocking Doris' dropped kerb that she never uses, the Police can have it away.
Thoughts?
un1corn said:
So, the Police stop a vehicle. This vehicle is deemed unroadworthy. Let's say, for example, the brakes are defective and the tyres all have cord exposed.
A Police officer trained as a vehicle examiner (pg9 trained), checks the vehicle at the roadside, and confirms this is the case. He determines the vehicle poses immediate danger. (Sec 67 rta gives the bobby the power to 'detain' the vehicle for the examination), and sec69 gives them the right to issue prohibition.
The officer issues the probhibition (PG9), meaning the vehicle now cannot be moved or driven legally. It has been 'prohibited'. At least until repairs are complete, an MOT test (or whatever class of vehicle test is required) is done, and the prohibition is then removed when the constable is satiisfied. If the driver gets a low loader to take it away for repairs, then fine, all is good. If the driver locks it up, and it's parked legally, and says they will leave it where it is, and get a low loader to take it away a few days later, then all is good again.
However, what if the driver has the intention to continue driving. I cannot find any legislation that gives police power to seized the vehicle as unroadworthy. All they can do is issue the prohibition, which basically tells the driver they cant use it, that it is dangerous, and if they do drive it in contravention of the PG9, then they commit an offence. If the driver says "thanks for the pg9" and goes to drive off anyway, what power do Police have to seize? None? (lets assume licence, insurance etc all in order).
On a similar note, the prohibition essentially states the vehicle cannot be driven legally. I would assume this is by the driver, lewis hamilton, the queen, or even the cop themselves. It's a dangerous vehicle, simple as, and it's been prohibited from driving. So if the vehicle is stopped on the motorway, I assume it could then be seized under obstruction/stopping powers, as it can't be driven legally, and it can't be parked there, and if the owner cant get a low loader themselves to remove it, then the Police will do it? Could you say the same applies when stopped on an A-road, but its stopped blocking a driveway. It cant be legally driven or moved by anyone, and is now blocking a drive/junction etc, so again, seizure for this?
It feels like a bit of a rule bending workaround to get an unroadworthy vehicle impounded, but I think its obscure that theres no legislation to seize an unroadowrthy vehicle, but if it's partially blocking Doris' dropped kerb that she never uses, the Police can have it away.
Thoughts?
You wot?A Police officer trained as a vehicle examiner (pg9 trained), checks the vehicle at the roadside, and confirms this is the case. He determines the vehicle poses immediate danger. (Sec 67 rta gives the bobby the power to 'detain' the vehicle for the examination), and sec69 gives them the right to issue prohibition.
The officer issues the probhibition (PG9), meaning the vehicle now cannot be moved or driven legally. It has been 'prohibited'. At least until repairs are complete, an MOT test (or whatever class of vehicle test is required) is done, and the prohibition is then removed when the constable is satiisfied. If the driver gets a low loader to take it away for repairs, then fine, all is good. If the driver locks it up, and it's parked legally, and says they will leave it where it is, and get a low loader to take it away a few days later, then all is good again.
However, what if the driver has the intention to continue driving. I cannot find any legislation that gives police power to seized the vehicle as unroadworthy. All they can do is issue the prohibition, which basically tells the driver they cant use it, that it is dangerous, and if they do drive it in contravention of the PG9, then they commit an offence. If the driver says "thanks for the pg9" and goes to drive off anyway, what power do Police have to seize? None? (lets assume licence, insurance etc all in order).
On a similar note, the prohibition essentially states the vehicle cannot be driven legally. I would assume this is by the driver, lewis hamilton, the queen, or even the cop themselves. It's a dangerous vehicle, simple as, and it's been prohibited from driving. So if the vehicle is stopped on the motorway, I assume it could then be seized under obstruction/stopping powers, as it can't be driven legally, and it can't be parked there, and if the owner cant get a low loader themselves to remove it, then the Police will do it? Could you say the same applies when stopped on an A-road, but its stopped blocking a driveway. It cant be legally driven or moved by anyone, and is now blocking a drive/junction etc, so again, seizure for this?
It feels like a bit of a rule bending workaround to get an unroadworthy vehicle impounded, but I think its obscure that theres no legislation to seize an unroadowrthy vehicle, but if it's partially blocking Doris' dropped kerb that she never uses, the Police can have it away.
Thoughts?
By the way you should read your own threads
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
In the unlikely event it was on a motorway then the police would most likely escort it to the nearest place if safety, eg the services or off at the next junction.
If it was at the roadside I don't think they'd just leave it in a place that would be causing an obstruction (blocking Doris's drive), because that would open up a whole other can if worms.
If it was at the roadside I don't think they'd just leave it in a place that would be causing an obstruction (blocking Doris's drive), because that would open up a whole other can if worms.
Breadvan72 said:
May I be the first to commend you for your use of "fish mitten"? I am greatly indebted to you.
16th C slang, apparently.https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=fi...
un1corn said:
So, the Police stop a vehicle. This vehicle is deemed unroadworthy. Let's say, for example, the brakes are defective and the tyres all have cord exposed.
A Police officer trained as a vehicle examiner (pg9 trained), checks the vehicle at the roadside, and confirms this is the case. He determines the vehicle poses immediate danger. (Sec 67 rta gives the bobby the power to 'detain' the vehicle for the examination), and sec69 gives them the right to issue prohibition.
The officer issues the probhibition (PG9), meaning the vehicle now cannot be moved or driven legally. It has been 'prohibited'. At least until repairs are complete, an MOT test (or whatever class of vehicle test is required) is done, and the prohibition is then removed when the constable is satiisfied. If the driver gets a low loader to take it away for repairs, then fine, all is good. If the driver locks it up, and it's parked legally, and says they will leave it where it is, and get a low loader to take it away a few days later, then all is good again.
However, what if the driver has the intention to continue driving. I cannot find any legislation that gives police power to seized the vehicle as unroadworthy. All they can do is issue the prohibition, which basically tells the driver they cant use it, that it is dangerous, and if they do drive it in contravention of the PG9, then they commit an offence. If the driver says "thanks for the pg9" and goes to drive off anyway, what power do Police have to seize? None? (lets assume licence, insurance etc all in order).
In Scotland the officers in the scenario above could resort to common law powers (failure to desist) and then seize the car as a production.A Police officer trained as a vehicle examiner (pg9 trained), checks the vehicle at the roadside, and confirms this is the case. He determines the vehicle poses immediate danger. (Sec 67 rta gives the bobby the power to 'detain' the vehicle for the examination), and sec69 gives them the right to issue prohibition.
The officer issues the probhibition (PG9), meaning the vehicle now cannot be moved or driven legally. It has been 'prohibited'. At least until repairs are complete, an MOT test (or whatever class of vehicle test is required) is done, and the prohibition is then removed when the constable is satiisfied. If the driver gets a low loader to take it away for repairs, then fine, all is good. If the driver locks it up, and it's parked legally, and says they will leave it where it is, and get a low loader to take it away a few days later, then all is good again.
However, what if the driver has the intention to continue driving. I cannot find any legislation that gives police power to seized the vehicle as unroadworthy. All they can do is issue the prohibition, which basically tells the driver they cant use it, that it is dangerous, and if they do drive it in contravention of the PG9, then they commit an offence. If the driver says "thanks for the pg9" and goes to drive off anyway, what power do Police have to seize? None? (lets assume licence, insurance etc all in order).
Terzo123 said:
[
In Scotland the officers in the scenario above could resort to common law powers (failure to desist) and then seize the car as a production.
It is greatly preferable that powers to seize property should be on an explicit statutory footing. Scottish common law is in some respects more Statist than English common law. In Scotland the officers in the scenario above could resort to common law powers (failure to desist) and then seize the car as a production.
In addition to vehicles "illegally, obstructively or dangerously parked, or abandoned", section 99 of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 also provides for removal of vehicles which have simply "broken down on a road".
If during a journey a drivers becomes cognizant of the fact that his tyres are unfit for continued use, such that he must desist from driving so as not to commit an offence, then the vehicle has broken down and may be removed under the powers conferred by this Act.
If during a journey a drivers becomes cognizant of the fact that his tyres are unfit for continued use, such that he must desist from driving so as not to commit an offence, then the vehicle has broken down and may be removed under the powers conferred by this Act.
When I am Evil Overlord, people who write "such that" when they should write "so that", and indeed people who use the term "such that" at all, in any context, ever, will be treated .... harshly.
A large part of my job involves removing "such that" from documents written by people who were late arriving at the "get a clue" line, and sadly missed out.
As for people who cannot spell cognisant, we are talking medieval levels of severity. I am sorry to have to get tough in this way, but with great power comes great responsibility.
A large part of my job involves removing "such that" from documents written by people who were late arriving at the "get a clue" line, and sadly missed out.
As for people who cannot spell cognisant, we are talking medieval levels of severity. I am sorry to have to get tough in this way, but with great power comes great responsibility.
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff