Discussion
Hi,
My son 18 (driving for 16 months) has been stopped with 2 bald tyres.
I feel guilty as I maintain the car for him i.e. pay garage bills. Been so busy and cars fairly reliable that it just hasn't been monitored.
Is he likely to get 3 pts per tyre or just 3 pts? As an early driver 6pts and the licence goes!!
If he loses his licence his lined up job will probably go...................
The car is in my keeping and really I should have the points as I maintain it.
Any help appreciated
My son 18 (driving for 16 months) has been stopped with 2 bald tyres.
I feel guilty as I maintain the car for him i.e. pay garage bills. Been so busy and cars fairly reliable that it just hasn't been monitored.
Is he likely to get 3 pts per tyre or just 3 pts? As an early driver 6pts and the licence goes!!
If he loses his licence his lined up job will probably go...................
The car is in my keeping and really I should have the points as I maintain it.
Any help appreciated
Your sins a lucky boy having dad do all the care and maintenance.
Sorry but no he’s an adult. He should check the condition of his tyres and your should not be ‘taking the points’.
Not 100% sure on the points but my initial thoughts are 3 points a tyre and bye bye license. Rightly so considering the implications of driving around on bald tyres
Edited to add link below. I draw your attention to paragraph 4.
https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/consumer-ne...
3 points a tyre so bye bye license is my understanding.
Sorry but no he’s an adult. He should check the condition of his tyres and your should not be ‘taking the points’.
Not 100% sure on the points but my initial thoughts are 3 points a tyre and bye bye license. Rightly so considering the implications of driving around on bald tyres
Edited to add link below. I draw your attention to paragraph 4.
https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/consumer-ne...
3 points a tyre so bye bye license is my understanding.
Edited by MB140 on Monday 29th April 06:38
CoolHands said:
I thought the cop would tell you at the time if they are reporting you for each offence? How come they didn't say?
He came home late last night, so I'll question him later today. At present he just has a yellow traffic offence report, which details nothing of the offence, just says wait and do nothing until you receive letter or email.The TORs that are issued today are sent to a Central Ticket Office who decide how to progress the matter, which is what you’re waiting for.
I think, and I may be wrong as I was never keen on traffic matters, that the only way to progress two bald tyres from this point would be a summons to court.
It’ll depend on their policies. They may encompass both offences with an offer of a Fixed Penalty Notice for one tyre (which would seem a reasonable outcome).
I think, and I may be wrong as I was never keen on traffic matters, that the only way to progress two bald tyres from this point would be a summons to court.
It’ll depend on their policies. They may encompass both offences with an offer of a Fixed Penalty Notice for one tyre (which would seem a reasonable outcome).
MB140 said:
Sorry but no he’s an adult. He should check the condition of his tyres and your should not be ‘taking the points’.
Where does the OP suggest he’d be ‘taking the points’ (which he can’t)?silentbrown said:
I think the "3 points per tyre" thing maybe an urban myth? Hopefully someone with actual experience can confirm. ...
It’s certainly not an urban myth. The FPN would be 3 points per tyre.
Op I don’t want to get your hopes up, but in my Force a traffic offence report couldn’t/shouldn’t be used as they are for one endorsable offence only. Any more than one endorsable offence and policy is straight report and off to court, do not pass go.
That fact your son has a Traffic Offence report leads me to believe it’s *possible* the officer has dealt with him for one tyre, and used his discretion on the other... possibly to avoid your son having his licence revoked.
This is only possible though... other forces may have different Offence report guidelines/policies. He may well have been written up for both and is about to get bent over.
With reference his job etc, remember this situation is not being disqualified. He would have his licence revoked, which is different.
In theory, if he gets his licence revoked on the Monday, and can book a driving test for the Tuesday (and pass) he’s up and running and licensed again. (Insurance is another issues that may bring the pains on...)
All I’d say is he’s learned the hard way. It’s all well and good having dad to keep your wheels maintained, but ultimately it’s the drivers responsibility. He’s an 18 year old lad, an ideal age to indoctrinate him into the world of oily rags, spanners and bottle jacks.
Spend a weekend showing him the basics, then he can do it himself in future...
Alucidnation said:
La Liga said:
MB140 said:
Sorry but no he’s an adult. He should check the condition of his tyres and your should not be ‘taking the points’.
Where does the OP suggest he’d be ‘taking the points’ (which he can’t)?No, he says, "The car is in my keeping and really I should have the points as I maintain it." Not quite the same thing as suggesting he'd be "taking the points".
wiliferus said:
The FPN would be 3 points per tyre.
I'm surprised it could be handled by an FPN as I thought the points were fixed by the offence code which would be a single CU30?Magistrates guidelines do indeed say "penalty per tyre", which isn't great news for the OP's son.
https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/offences/magi...
Do you agree with the officer's assessment of the tyre's condition?
If the two tyres were on the same axle your son may be able to argue that 2 bald tyres is better than one, as the car is less likely to pull to one side
Also, please make sure he isn't driving that car until the tyres are replaced.
If the two tyres were on the same axle your son may be able to argue that 2 bald tyres is better than one, as the car is less likely to pull to one side
Also, please make sure he isn't driving that car until the tyres are replaced.
Posters suggesting the OP's son is looking at 3 points per tyre are mistaken.
The relevant legislation is the Road Traffic Offenders Act which provides that multiple endorseable offences committed at the same time should normally only result in points for the offence which attracts the most points.
The court can decide to issue points for each offence if it chooses to (by virtue of sub section 5) but this hardly ever happens. If the court does choose to give points for each offence it must give the reasons for doing so in court and those reasons have to be recorded.
Cat
The relevant legislation is the Road Traffic Offenders Act which provides that multiple endorseable offences committed at the same time should normally only result in points for the offence which attracts the most points.
RTOA 1988 s28 said:
(4)Where a person is convicted (whether on the same occasion or not) of two or more offences committed on the same occasion and involving obligatory endorsement, the total number of penalty points to be attributed to them is the number or highest number that would be attributed on a conviction of one of them
The court can decide to issue points for each offence if it chooses to (by virtue of sub section 5) but this hardly ever happens. If the court does choose to give points for each offence it must give the reasons for doing so in court and those reasons have to be recorded.
Cat
Edited by Cat on Monday 29th April 11:45
wiliferus said:
It’s certainly not an urban myth.
The FPN would be 3 points per tyre.
Op I don’t want to get your hopes up, but in my Force a traffic offence report couldn’t/shouldn’t be used as they are for one endorsable offence only. Any more than one endorsable offence and policy is straight report and off to court, do not pass go.
That fact your son has a Traffic Offence report leads me to believe it’s *possible* the officer has dealt with him for one tyre, and used his discretion on the other... possibly to avoid your son having his licence revoked.
This is only possible though... other forces may have different Offence report guidelines/policies. He may well have been written up for both and is about to get bent over.
With reference his job etc, remember this situation is not being disqualified. He would have his licence revoked, which is different.
In theory, if he gets his licence revoked on the Monday, and can book a driving test for the Tuesday (and pass) he’s up and running and licensed again. (Insurance is another issues that may bring the pains on...)
All I’d say is he’s learned the hard way. It’s all well and good having dad to keep your wheels maintained, but ultimately it’s the drivers responsibility. He’s an 18 year old lad, an ideal age to indoctrinate him into the world of oily rags, spanners and bottle jacks.
Spend a weekend showing him the basics, then he can do it himself in future...
We issue a Traffic Offence Report even if its a court job. The FPN would be 3 points per tyre.
Op I don’t want to get your hopes up, but in my Force a traffic offence report couldn’t/shouldn’t be used as they are for one endorsable offence only. Any more than one endorsable offence and policy is straight report and off to court, do not pass go.
That fact your son has a Traffic Offence report leads me to believe it’s *possible* the officer has dealt with him for one tyre, and used his discretion on the other... possibly to avoid your son having his licence revoked.
This is only possible though... other forces may have different Offence report guidelines/policies. He may well have been written up for both and is about to get bent over.
With reference his job etc, remember this situation is not being disqualified. He would have his licence revoked, which is different.
In theory, if he gets his licence revoked on the Monday, and can book a driving test for the Tuesday (and pass) he’s up and running and licensed again. (Insurance is another issues that may bring the pains on...)
All I’d say is he’s learned the hard way. It’s all well and good having dad to keep your wheels maintained, but ultimately it’s the drivers responsibility. He’s an 18 year old lad, an ideal age to indoctrinate him into the world of oily rags, spanners and bottle jacks.
Spend a weekend showing him the basics, then he can do it himself in future...
Just tick another box rather than Awareness course, FPN.
Was the tyre bald or were cords exposed?
Cat said:
Posters suggesting the OP's son is looking at 3 points per tyre are mistaken.
What about this bit, then? It's a single offencehttps://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/offences/magi...
silentbrown said:
What about this bit, then? It's a single offence
https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/offences/magi...
The fine can be per tyre, but there should only be one set of points as per the RTOA unless the court explicitly decide to go against it and explains why in open court. https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/offences/magi...
Cat
Edited by Cat on Monday 29th April 11:47
Cat said:
Posters suggesting the OP's son is looking at 3 points per tyre are mistaken.
The relevant legislation is the Road Traffic Offenders Act which provides that multiple endorseable offences committed at the same time should normally only result in points for the offence which attracts the most points.
The court can decide to issue points for each offence if it chooses to (by virtue of sub section 5) but this hardly ever happens. If the court does choose to give points for each offence it must give the reasons for doing so in court and those reasons have to be recorded.
Cat
Does that apply when the offences are the same though? It seems strange that the sentencing guidelines explicitly specify "penalty per tyre" when the multiple offences at once guidance essentially invalidates that? It's not as if you can drive a vehicle with 1 wheel, after all.The relevant legislation is the Road Traffic Offenders Act which provides that multiple endorseable offences committed at the same time should normally only result in points for the offence which attracts the most points.
RTRA 1988 s28 said:
(4)Where a person is convicted (whether on the same occasion or not) of two or more offences committed on the same occasion and involving obligatory endorsement, the total number of penalty points to be attributed to them is the number or highest number that would be attributed on a conviction of one of them
The court can decide to issue points for each offence if it chooses to (by virtue of sub section 5) but this hardly ever happens. If the court does choose to give points for each offence it must give the reasons for doing so in court and those reasons have to be recorded.
Cat
I can understand why if you convicted for no insurance (6 points) it seems excessive to give another 3 points for, for example, leaving a vehicle in a dangerous position, but it seems like this is a special case?
(For what it's worth I would think 3 points per tyre is harsh too)
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