New sound cameras...
Discussion
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48564995
Just seen this. What it doesn’t tell me is if there is a legal sound limit for the public roads.
So I thought I’d ask our learned colleagues in here. I was under the impression that there wasn’t and it was down to the manufacturers level leaving the factory so to speak? I.e that would be legal, but if altered to be above that not legal.
Also, how do you show on camera there wasn’t another vehicle causing background noise for example?
Just seen this. What it doesn’t tell me is if there is a legal sound limit for the public roads.
So I thought I’d ask our learned colleagues in here. I was under the impression that there wasn’t and it was down to the manufacturers level leaving the factory so to speak? I.e that would be legal, but if altered to be above that not legal.
Also, how do you show on camera there wasn’t another vehicle causing background noise for example?
Just goes to show how miserable and boring driving / riding is becoming.
Ok i suppose in residential areas if there’s loads of it going on etc at certain times at night maybe.
The amount of cameras trying to catch motorists doing the slightest misdemeanour is getting ridiculous. Driving is now becoming such a chore with the amount of cameras.
Ok i suppose in residential areas if there’s loads of it going on etc at certain times at night maybe.
The amount of cameras trying to catch motorists doing the slightest misdemeanour is getting ridiculous. Driving is now becoming such a chore with the amount of cameras.
Geffg said:
Just goes to show how miserable and boring driving / riding is becoming.
Ok i suppose in residential areas if there’s loads of it going on etc at certain times at night maybe.
The amount of cameras trying to catch motorists doing the slightest misdemeanour is getting ridiculous. Driving is now becoming such a chore with the amount of cameras.
Or in a sleepy Suffolk village, Sunday morning at 8am, twelve Ok i suppose in residential areas if there’s loads of it going on etc at certain times at night maybe.
The amount of cameras trying to catch motorists doing the slightest misdemeanour is getting ridiculous. Driving is now becoming such a chore with the amount of cameras.
s on Harleys ride through, opening their throttles needlessly, then coming back the other way five minutes later. Tell me, how would making them quieter ruin their fun? It’s just a display of ‘attitude’ that doesn’t really have any place in our modern world.
Geffg said:
Just goes to show how miserable and boring driving / riding is becoming.
Ok i suppose in residential areas if there’s loads of it going on etc at certain times at night maybe.
The amount of cameras trying to catch motorists doing the slightest misdemeanour is getting ridiculous. Driving is now becoming such a chore with the amount of cameras.
Driving is a chore because of all the other drivers, remove 90% of the people from the roads and it'd be fun again.Ok i suppose in residential areas if there’s loads of it going on etc at certain times at night maybe.
The amount of cameras trying to catch motorists doing the slightest misdemeanour is getting ridiculous. Driving is now becoming such a chore with the amount of cameras.
More cameras are, therefore, a good idea.
ellroy said:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48564995
Just seen this. What it doesn’t tell me is if there is a legal sound limit for the public roads.
So I thought I’d ask our learned colleagues in here. I was under the impression that there wasn’t and it was down to the manufacturers level leaving the factory so to speak? I.e that would be legal, but if altered to be above that not legal.
Also, how do you show on camera there wasn’t another vehicle causing background noise for example?
From: https://www.vehicle-certification-agency.gov.uk/fc...Just seen this. What it doesn’t tell me is if there is a legal sound limit for the public roads.
So I thought I’d ask our learned colleagues in here. I was under the impression that there wasn’t and it was down to the manufacturers level leaving the factory so to speak? I.e that would be legal, but if altered to be above that not legal.
Also, how do you show on camera there wasn’t another vehicle causing background noise for example?
Cars and Noise
The external noise emitted by passenger cars has been controlled since 1929 when the Motor Cars (Excessive Noise) regulations were introduced. New cars are now required to meet Europe-wide noise limits. These have been progressively reduced from 82 decibels (dB (A)) in 1978 to the current limit of 74 dB (A) established in 2016. Information on the level of noise recorded for new models of cars at their type approval test is also listed in the data table available to download here https://carfueldata.vehicle-certification-agency.g...
When looking at this information please note that off-road vehicles are allowed to be 1dB (A) louder and wheelchair accessible vehicles or armoured vehicles are allowed to be 2 dB (A) louder.
The noise levels quoted above are the maximum levels that are permitted for new vehicle types. Many vehicles produce lower levels of noise, and it is illegal to modify the exhaust system of a vehicle to make it noisier than the level recorded for that model at type approval.
A new EU regulation was introduced from July 2016, Regulation (EU) No 540/2014, phases in tighter noise limits over 10 years, together with a revised, more representative test procedure. By 2026 the limit for most new passenger cars will be 68 dB(A).
So based on that, I'd assume that for vehicles manufactured prior to the 1978 legislation being implemented, the limit would be 82dB's (A), and afterwards, the limit is 74dB's (A).
The Jaguar F Type V8 is a pretty loud car, and checking it's details on the linked site above, the official figures for the 550PS version shows it has a "Moving" noise level of 72dB (A), whilst the 575PS version scrapes in at 74dB (A).
The F type has two exhaust settings, basically: "Loud" and "Louder", and I'm suspecting that the test must be carried out in the standard: "loud" setting, rather than "louder", because I'm struggling to believe they're only 72 and 74 dB (A) in "Louder" mode!
And, as noted on that site, it's illegal to modify the exhaust system to make it louder than the manufacturer's type approved exhaust.
It seems that up until now, in general, the law on modifying an exhaust system to make it louder has not really been enforced - But that appears to be about to change.
European directive.
Drive by noise measured at 7.5 m distance, 3rd gear at 50 kph.
So if you're going faster, or are closer, or another vehicle passes simultaneously on the other side of the road, or you've got your windows down and your radio playing, or different tyres, a roofrack or trailer, etc. etc. then you might exceed the camera's measurement threshold.
Sad that the article says "it triggers a camera to take pictures of the vehicle registration number and any other relevant images to allow a fine to be sent out to the vehicle owner, the government said." No mention of being called in for an official test, or a noise awareness course, just straight to the fining option
Drive by noise measured at 7.5 m distance, 3rd gear at 50 kph.
So if you're going faster, or are closer, or another vehicle passes simultaneously on the other side of the road, or you've got your windows down and your radio playing, or different tyres, a roofrack or trailer, etc. etc. then you might exceed the camera's measurement threshold.
Sad that the article says "it triggers a camera to take pictures of the vehicle registration number and any other relevant images to allow a fine to be sent out to the vehicle owner, the government said." No mention of being called in for an official test, or a noise awareness course, just straight to the fining option
speedking31 said:
European directive.
Drive by noise measured at 7.5 m distance, 3rd gear at 50 kph.
So if you're going faster, or are closer, or another vehicle passes simultaneously on the other side of the road, or you've got your windows down and your radio playing, or different tyres, a roofrack or trailer, etc. etc. then you might exceed the camera's measurement threshold.
Sad that the article says "it triggers a camera to take pictures of the vehicle registration number and any other relevant images to allow a fine to be sent out to the vehicle owner, the government said." No mention of being called in for an official test, or a noise awareness course, just straight to the fining option
Noise cameras have been around for a while in some EU countries. Thin end of the wedge IMO. I think we can all kiss goodbye to the big sportscar manufacturers getting away with quite loud valved exhausts. Jag F Type V8 springs immediately to mindDrive by noise measured at 7.5 m distance, 3rd gear at 50 kph.
So if you're going faster, or are closer, or another vehicle passes simultaneously on the other side of the road, or you've got your windows down and your radio playing, or different tyres, a roofrack or trailer, etc. etc. then you might exceed the camera's measurement threshold.
Sad that the article says "it triggers a camera to take pictures of the vehicle registration number and any other relevant images to allow a fine to be sent out to the vehicle owner, the government said." No mention of being called in for an official test, or a noise awareness course, just straight to the fining option
How this would be policed I don't know.
CoolHands said:
Pretty pointless cos you’re just going to pull the clutch in as you fly past one of these cameras, then carry on. Waste of money.
If you spot it in time.Candellara said:
How this would be policed I don't know.
Probably with sound cameras.Edited by singlecoil on Saturday 8th June 18:55
In the construction as use regulations the 2 important things are
54 Silencers
(2) Every exhaust system and silencer shall be maintained in good and efficient working order and shall not be altered so as to increase the noise made by the escape of exhaust gases.
and
97.Avoidance of excessive noise
No motor vehicle shall be used on a road in such manner as to cause any excessive noise which could have been avoided by the exercise of reasonable care on the part of the driver.
Noise is not defined by the act, but if your exhaust has been altered to make more of it, you've committed an offense, if it's been altered for a reason that was 100% not to create more of it, but it does happen to it is less clear, but it is unlikely to be a valid excuse that a more noisy exhaust was fitted 100% for increased performance and the noise was an unintended side affect.
97 means that for example, if you take a small engined hatch back through a housing estate holding it in 1st gear so it revs massively you could commit an offense. if you creep through a housing estate as quietly as possible in a super car that barely makes it through noise approval and you still wake everyone up, its not an offense.
This is really the bit that will make it quite hard to do any kind of noise camera. It will need a fairly high threshold, particularly for bikes which have higher limits anyway.
54 Silencers
(2) Every exhaust system and silencer shall be maintained in good and efficient working order and shall not be altered so as to increase the noise made by the escape of exhaust gases.
and
97.Avoidance of excessive noise
No motor vehicle shall be used on a road in such manner as to cause any excessive noise which could have been avoided by the exercise of reasonable care on the part of the driver.
Noise is not defined by the act, but if your exhaust has been altered to make more of it, you've committed an offense, if it's been altered for a reason that was 100% not to create more of it, but it does happen to it is less clear, but it is unlikely to be a valid excuse that a more noisy exhaust was fitted 100% for increased performance and the noise was an unintended side affect.
97 means that for example, if you take a small engined hatch back through a housing estate holding it in 1st gear so it revs massively you could commit an offense. if you creep through a housing estate as quietly as possible in a super car that barely makes it through noise approval and you still wake everyone up, its not an offense.
This is really the bit that will make it quite hard to do any kind of noise camera. It will need a fairly high threshold, particularly for bikes which have higher limits anyway.
So the noise level is measured at 7.5 metres at 30 mph in 3rd gear.
And mustn't exceed 74db(A) if a post 2016 car, or 82 dB(A) if pre-2016.
So the noise cameras are going to be in 30 limits, which means built up areas, so make sense.
I was worrying before i read that.
My TVR 4.6 turbo is actually 10 decibels quieter than the non turbo version and is 90 decibels.......measured at half a metre, not 7.5 metres, and 3/4s of the 6,200 rpm rev limit, not 30 in 3rd, which is 2000 rpm.
There's hope for us yet. I will be well under 82 dB(A) at 7.5 metres at 2000 rpm
And mustn't exceed 74db(A) if a post 2016 car, or 82 dB(A) if pre-2016.
So the noise cameras are going to be in 30 limits, which means built up areas, so make sense.
I was worrying before i read that.
My TVR 4.6 turbo is actually 10 decibels quieter than the non turbo version and is 90 decibels.......measured at half a metre, not 7.5 metres, and 3/4s of the 6,200 rpm rev limit, not 30 in 3rd, which is 2000 rpm.
There's hope for us yet. I will be well under 82 dB(A) at 7.5 metres at 2000 rpm
Tony1963 said:
Or in a sleepy Suffolk village, Sunday morning at 8am, twelve s on Harleys ride through, opening their throttles needlessly, then coming back the other way five minutes later.
Tell me, how would making them quieter ruin their fun? It’s just a display of ‘attitude’ that doesn’t really have any place in our modern world.
I've always wondered how modern Harleys manage to meet Type Approval limits! s on Harleys ride through, opening their throttles needlessly, then coming back the other way five minutes later. Tell me, how would making them quieter ruin their fun? It’s just a display of ‘attitude’ that doesn’t really have any place in our modern world.
I don't necessarily have an issue with noise, but it has to be the right type of noise - and Harleys always sound sh*t to me!
Now a Hyabusa, Fireblade, ZX10, BMW 1000RR, any triple or any 2 stroke is a different matter - lovely. Or any car with a V12, V10, V8, V6, straight 6 or tuned (rather than barried) 4.
My back garden backs onto an A road with a 50 limit (was N/S/L until recently) a few hundred yards from a set of traffic lights and I like to hear something inspiring - just not the Waitrose artics that make the ground shake (it's their route from their Bracknell base to most points South).
But I can't see cameras with volume equipment being much of an issue - surely if you give it the beans past the camera you'll get nicked for speeding anyway?
Mr Tidy said:
I've always wondered how modern Harleys manage to meet Type Approval limits!
I don't necessarily have an issue with noise, but it has to be the right type of noise - and Harleys always sound sh*t to me!
Now a Hyabusa, Fireblade, ZX10, BMW 1000RR, any triple or any 2 stroke is a different matter - lovely. Or any car with a V12, V10, V8, V6, straight 6 or tuned (rather than barried) 4.
My back garden backs onto an A road with a 50 limit (was N/S/L until recently) a few hundred yards from a set of traffic lights and I like to hear something inspiring - just not the Waitrose artics that make the ground shake (it's their route from their Bracknell base to most points South).
But I can't see cameras with volume equipment being much of an issue - surely if you give it the beans past the camera you'll get nicked for speeding anyway?
Where is your house? I will come past with a Supercharged V8 so you can compare the sound and maybe even shake the ground I don't necessarily have an issue with noise, but it has to be the right type of noise - and Harleys always sound sh*t to me!
Now a Hyabusa, Fireblade, ZX10, BMW 1000RR, any triple or any 2 stroke is a different matter - lovely. Or any car with a V12, V10, V8, V6, straight 6 or tuned (rather than barried) 4.
My back garden backs onto an A road with a 50 limit (was N/S/L until recently) a few hundred yards from a set of traffic lights and I like to hear something inspiring - just not the Waitrose artics that make the ground shake (it's their route from their Bracknell base to most points South).
But I can't see cameras with volume equipment being much of an issue - surely if you give it the beans past the camera you'll get nicked for speeding anyway?
So they're going to test the cameras to see how much money can be made in fines? That's how I read it. First it will be this, then slowly the limit will be reduced. When it all goes electric the same cameras will likely be used to police if someone is using a car with an internal combustion engine.
It's just gonna become another tax on the motorist. Before you know it you'll get a fine for farting too loudly in a public place. It's just another step towards being a police state. Some would argue we already are.
It's just gonna become another tax on the motorist. Before you know it you'll get a fine for farting too loudly in a public place. It's just another step towards being a police state. Some would argue we already are.
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