Wednesday 25th May 2005

Anti-detector law re-introduced

Government re-introduces Road Safety Bill

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Snooper radar detector -- about to become illegal

The Government yesterday re-introduced the Road Safety Bill to Parliament, which will outlaw radar and laser detectors. Describing it as a measure to clamp down on irresponsible driving and improve road safety were today reintroduced to Parliament, the Bill includes a number of other measures, such as:

• Homogenising penalties for foreign drivers
• Instituting a variable penalty points regime
• Increased penalties for mobile phone use while driving
• Measures to tackle drink-driving
• Driver retraining for "serious offenders"
• Setting motorway picnic areas similar to French "aires" to combat fatigue
• Measures to detect vehicle clocking

The Bill was lost following the dissolution of Parliament prior to the General Election, and the Government has clearly lost no time in ploughing on with its pre-election programme.

• Full details on the Department for Transport Web site

[Don]

There is no doubt in my mind that this Bill will go through shortly. There is also no doubt in my mind that the anti-radar detector part will be utterly unenforceable.

However - if one IS stopped then it might well be "added" to the list of offences one gets reprimanded for.

I got a detector recently as an experiment. Personally I find it...pointless. But it was cheap so I don't care, really. Too many false alarms etc. The GPS system I have (integrated with my SatNav) is far more useful - and even then I find the Mk1 Eyeball appears to be the best!

[maxrider]

Had 3 detectors myself (kept returning them to the shop for a replacement) all totally crap despite costing over 300 quid, no response to gatso's or scamera vans but went ballistic at the local co-op's automatic doors and most traffic lights.

Agree, knew this would raise its ugly head again, just wonder what else is in store as it won't stop at this, at the end of the day the bastards just want their cash and as many of us off the roads as possible.

[pakrat]

I find my laser jammer really useful. Most static camera's you can see, but the 'Safety Partnership' boys in the roadside vans pointing a laser at you are often hard to spot ‘til it’s too late. The jammer's saved me on numerous occasions over the last couple of years. How they propose to ban them I don't know 'cos they're exactly the same as my remote garage opener - or are they going to ban them as well?

[griffter]

Next they'll try to ban speedometers as these too can be used to ensure compliance with the law.

[ridds]

These laser Jammers, I know they're illegal to use under the rule of "stopping a police officer from carrying out his duties".

However, how does this apply to Scamera Partnership vehicle? These are not operated by officers correct? In which case the use of a Jammer against these should be legal? Maybe?

[Angry Harvey]

pakrat said:

I find my laser jammer really useful. Most static camera's you can see, but the 'Safety Partnership' boys in the roadside vans pointing a laser at you are often hard to spot ‘til it’s too late. The jammer's saved me on numerous occasions over the last couple of years. How they propose to ban them I don't know 'cos they're exactly the same as my remote garage opener - or are they going to ban them as well?

Except that plod will eventually turn up, impound your car, take it apart to see what's fitted, and prosecute you for some technical "perverting-the-course", or "obstructing a policeman in the execution.."-type offence.

Given that any car where they can't get a speed-reading is photographed and the incident recorded, they can track you down. Whether they choose to, or not, is another matter (probably though, because they know where you live, whereas burglars, rapists and drugs-pushers can be a bit more tricky to locate!!).

[Angry Harvey]

ridds said:

These are not operated by officers correct?

Some are!

On Overtime, naturally, because it can easily be paid for out of the revenue collected from the crazed-speeding-maniacs that they "catch"!

[catso]

Angry Harvey said:

pakrat said: I find my laser jammer really useful. Most static camera's you can see, but the 'Safety Partnership' boys in the roadside vans pointing a laser at you are often hard to spot ‘til it’s too late. The jammer's saved me on numerous occasions over the last couple of years. How they propose to ban them I don't know 'cos they're exactly the same as my remote garage opener - or are they going to ban them as well? Except that plod will eventually turn up, impound your car, take it apart to see what's fitted, and prosecute you for some technical "perverting-the-course", or "obstructing a policeman in the execution.."-type offence. .

But as I asked (and no-one answered) in the 'Garage Door Opener' thread, what is the situation if your 'Garage Door Opener' does indeed open your Garage door?

[jesusbuiltmycar]

Whether they are crap or not dosen't matter - this is just another Labour Nanny State law, targetting the motorist.

More alarmingly I read that people earning above average wage will be refused legal aid - this will mainly affect motorists. Burglars, Drug Dealers and other undesirables, who make there money in an "un-traceable" illegal manner will still get top class lawyers....

So end of the day, you work hard, act resposibly, pay more tax and get less for it.....

[supraman2954]

catso said:

But as I asked (and no-one answered) in the 'Garage Door Opener' thread, what is the situation if your 'Garage Door Opener' does indeed open your Garage door?

Correct me if I’m wrong.

Today’s laser jammers have some form of sensor to determine when and what type of signal to transmit.
A garage door opener won’t have this advanced feature; it’ll just have an ‘on’ button.
Therefore, it’s quite easy to discriminate between the two types of device.

[kevinday]

ridds said:

However, how does this apply to Scamera Partnership vehicle? These are not operated by officers correct? In which case the use of a Jammer against these should be legal? Maybe?

If they are not you have a 'get out of jail free' card, I do not know of a single successful prosecution where the defence has raised the question about civi operators. CPS drops the case rather than risk an acquital thus leaving themselves open for thousands of prosecutions to be overturned.

[ridds]

Was just a thought after reading about one local force dropping it's traffic unit entirely and thus relying on "The Partnership" to control speed.

Hmmmmm

[pakrat]

Angry Harvey said:

pakrat said: I find my laser jammer really useful. Most static camera's you can see, but the 'Safety Partnership' boys in the roadside vans pointing a laser at you are often hard to spot ‘til it’s too late. The jammer's saved me on numerous occasions over the last couple of years. How they propose to ban them I don't know 'cos they're exactly the same as my remote garage opener - or are they going to ban them as well? Except that plod will eventually turn up, impound your car, take it apart to see what's fitted, and prosecute you for some technical "perverting-the-course", or "obstructing a policeman in the execution.."-type offence. Given that any car where they can't get a speed-reading is photographed and the incident recorded, they can track you down. Whether they choose to, or not, is another matter (probably though, because they know where you live, whereas burglars, rapists and drugs-pushers can be a bit more tricky to locate!!).

[james_j]

ridds said:

Was just a thought after reading about one local force dropping it's traffic unit entirely and thus relying on "The Partnership" to control speed. Hmmmmm

Yes, I read that, but can't remember the area concerned.

The traffic police section disbanded in its entirety to be replaced by a revenue cameras.

It just proves that speed is all they care about, nothing else. Proof staring us in the face.

[catso]

supraman2954 said:

Correct me if I’m wrong. Today’s laser jammers have some form of sensor to determine when and what type of signal to transmit. A garage door opener won’t have this advanced feature; it’ll just have an ‘on’ button. Therefore, it’s quite easy to discriminate between the two types of device.

There are devices out there that are marketed as 'Laser Remote Control units' or 'Garage Door Openers' and whilst they may affect police laser, the sales literature/manuals etc claim that it is made as a Remote control unit for opening your garage door/gate or switching on a light etc - they do indeed work as claimed and can automatically open your garage door as you approach.

I understand that the car sensor is permanently on but in 'standby' and only sends a signal when it is activated by a certain light frequency, the Door unit permanently transmits light at this frequency and so activates the Car unit, when in range, which then sends a 'return' signal to the door unit which opens the door.

A Manufacturer of this type of device says;
"There are other electronic infra red based systems in use which transmit information on the same 904 Nanometer frequency. For example, hunting or surveyor range finders and laser guns used by the police. The LaserTrack is able to recognize these signals used by the other systems. If the Vehicle transponder is unable to confirm a match with the corresponding Home Transponder the system switches itself off within a few seconds to prevent interference."

It would seem to be a cleverly worded disclaimer and I wonder, if a motorist was taken to court for obstruction/PCJ etc and used the brochure/manual/website etc as evidence that the device has a legitimate use and that they may have been unaware of it's potential to interfere with police laser, or that such interference was not intended, what would be the outcome.........

more info on;

www.target-automotive.nl/en/laser/

>> Edited by catso on Wednesday 25th May 17:56

[Mr E]

catso said:

A Manufacturer of this type of device says; "There are other electronic infra red based systems in use which transmit information on the same 904 Nanometer frequency. For example, hunting or surveyor range finders and laser guns used by the police. The LaserTrack is able to recognize these signals used by the other systems. If the Vehicle transponder is unable to confirm a match with the corresponding Home Transponder the system switches itself off within a few seconds to prevent interference."

That's pure poetry....

[supraman2954]

catso said:

so activates the Car unit, when in range

yeah, like 1000 metres away

catso said:

more info on; www.target-automotive.nl/en/laser/

That IS a funny product (if setup correctly, this device could even warn you of SPECS and ANPR cameras), but I think it can still fall foul of the Law.
It’s clever that it is marketed as a self-triggered door opener, but if it behaves differently when triggered by a speed gun (i.e. transmit a different pulse stream or give any specific warning) then it could be viewed as ‘acting upon the information’ transmitted from the gun. An easy loophole would be to ensure this device always gives a warning irrespective of what triggered it.

You would still likely be pulled in any case, even if not speeding. A quick examination would surely result with a summons, no sensible plod will fall for your ‘that is a door opener’ excuse.

Unlike a radar detector, this device does not detect the presence of a carrier, it instead modifies the pulse train received by the gun; hence I don’t think the radar case can be used as a precedent. So IMO, I don’t think this product would stand up to scrutiny in court (I would be very happy to be proven wrong)

Again I stand to be corrected

[TripleS]

jesusbuiltmycar said:

Whether they are crap or not dosen't matter - this is just another Labour Nanny State law, targetting the motorist. More alarmingly I read that people earning above average wage will be refused legal aid - this will mainly affect motorists. Burglars, Drug Dealers and other undesirables, who make there money in an "un-traceable" illegal manner will still get top class lawyers.... So end of the day, you work hard, act resposibly, pay more tax and get less for it.....

I'm not so sure about that. What's this about the footballer earning (correction; getting paid) £40,000 a week, who has obtained legal aid to fight some case or other?

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[rich 36]

Dave S
YHM

[destroyer]

ridds said:

These laser Jammers, I know they're illegal to use under the rule of "stopping a police officer from carrying out his duties". However, how does this apply to Scamera Partnership vehicle? These are not operated by officers correct? In which case the use of a Jammer against these should be legal? Maybe?

The introduction of the new law will change that won't it! The charge will be one of breaking the newly introduced law that says you are not allowed to own or operate such a device so the matter of who detected and produced the evidence on behalf of the Chief Constable is most probably completely irrellevant.