Employment Law
Discussion
Hi guys,
Wondered if anyone knows much about employment law. Someone made a career change about 2.5 years ago into a completely different industry however had a basic understanding of said industry and electrics and how it works which would hold them in good steed in said new career. The standard wage in this industry is around 27-30k.
Engineer A was taken on at around the same as engineer B who had retail experience only and were taken on as trainees. Both paid the same wage, qualified at the same time and progressed over time. Both given a small increase after around 6-9 months to 21k on the understanding it would be increased over time. Around 12 months ago the company was bought out by a larger company and both engineers carryed on carrying out full dutys on their own and carrying out all the duties of an engineer but gaining experience.
Engineer A did a lot of work (6 months) in central London so asked for a raise to cover the premium area he was expected to work in and that he was security cleared to work on high profile sites and actually requested by them. Engineer A has one instance of causing an issue and costing the company money. Engineer B is much younger and has a bit of a reputation for messing things up, has had a fair few instances of things going wrong and costing money, constantly failing to wake up and also a fairly major disciplinary against him. Engineer B also has had several complaints from both customers and public (sign written vehicles).
Company put through wage increases for Engineer A and B, and also 4 other 'trainees' in different areas to bring them in line with other engineers. Engineer A given a 3% increase and Engineer B & other engineers now brought in line with rest of the company. Engineer A not aware of increases of other staff - but complained. Engineer A's line manager states that its a genuine error and that he should be in line with everyone else. Line manager complains to larger company and states it needs to be sorted, company states that they can't do anything because even though it was a mistake an additional pay rise can't be granted as the budget has been used up and the business cannot justify any additional money this year on wage increases. Line manager is now complaining to this persons boss, but can't guarantee he can do anything or bring other person in line this year.
It isn't going to be long before Engineer A realises that everyone else is now being paid more and causes an issue. Where does he stand legally? Im not in management however I work closely with Engineer A who is very highly thought of and competent - there are absolutely no issues with trying to push him out the door or any justification as to why he is now being paid substantially (6k+) less a year than other engineers who are doing a less competent job than him.
I'm half tempted to tell him to go but he's a good lad and is an asset to the company. Theres got to be something he can do legally as this isnt right or fair? He's already said that he's half tempted to tell the company that as he's being paid less he's not going to do the full role until they can justify bringing his wages up with everybody else and just goes back to being a trainee - but won't do it as he's too loyal to them and appreciates them taking him on 2.5 years ago but this may change when he finds out others are paid more.
Thanks for any advice.
Wondered if anyone knows much about employment law. Someone made a career change about 2.5 years ago into a completely different industry however had a basic understanding of said industry and electrics and how it works which would hold them in good steed in said new career. The standard wage in this industry is around 27-30k.
Engineer A was taken on at around the same as engineer B who had retail experience only and were taken on as trainees. Both paid the same wage, qualified at the same time and progressed over time. Both given a small increase after around 6-9 months to 21k on the understanding it would be increased over time. Around 12 months ago the company was bought out by a larger company and both engineers carryed on carrying out full dutys on their own and carrying out all the duties of an engineer but gaining experience.
Engineer A did a lot of work (6 months) in central London so asked for a raise to cover the premium area he was expected to work in and that he was security cleared to work on high profile sites and actually requested by them. Engineer A has one instance of causing an issue and costing the company money. Engineer B is much younger and has a bit of a reputation for messing things up, has had a fair few instances of things going wrong and costing money, constantly failing to wake up and also a fairly major disciplinary against him. Engineer B also has had several complaints from both customers and public (sign written vehicles).
Company put through wage increases for Engineer A and B, and also 4 other 'trainees' in different areas to bring them in line with other engineers. Engineer A given a 3% increase and Engineer B & other engineers now brought in line with rest of the company. Engineer A not aware of increases of other staff - but complained. Engineer A's line manager states that its a genuine error and that he should be in line with everyone else. Line manager complains to larger company and states it needs to be sorted, company states that they can't do anything because even though it was a mistake an additional pay rise can't be granted as the budget has been used up and the business cannot justify any additional money this year on wage increases. Line manager is now complaining to this persons boss, but can't guarantee he can do anything or bring other person in line this year.
It isn't going to be long before Engineer A realises that everyone else is now being paid more and causes an issue. Where does he stand legally? Im not in management however I work closely with Engineer A who is very highly thought of and competent - there are absolutely no issues with trying to push him out the door or any justification as to why he is now being paid substantially (6k+) less a year than other engineers who are doing a less competent job than him.
I'm half tempted to tell him to go but he's a good lad and is an asset to the company. Theres got to be something he can do legally as this isnt right or fair? He's already said that he's half tempted to tell the company that as he's being paid less he's not going to do the full role until they can justify bringing his wages up with everybody else and just goes back to being a trainee - but won't do it as he's too loyal to them and appreciates them taking him on 2.5 years ago but this may change when he finds out others are paid more.
Thanks for any advice.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
This ^^^.Apologies if this sounds harsh but insisting on a payrise purely because "other people get paid more" is weak behaviour. He should get paid what the company thinks he is worth. if there is a difference between what "he" thinks he's worth and what the Company thinks he's worth there is an easy solution - he moves to a new Company that recognises his true value and his "old" Employer has the hassle and cost of replacing him.
I've worked in a few organisations where it's impossible to retain good staff because they have a rule that says "Everybody in Grade X gets paid the same".
I'm in the public sector, and apart from some small incremental movements, you get paid the grade the role is assessed at.
Is there any non pay benefits he can seek instead I wonder? The central decision makers might be willing to part with some of those if they're not technically salary.
Ian
Is there any non pay benefits he can seek instead I wonder? The central decision makers might be willing to part with some of those if they're not technically salary.
Ian
anonymous said:
[redacted]
This, look for another job.Companies will cut off their noses in these circumstances, they won't be blackmailed and will make all sorts of promises to keep the status quo only to largely ignore them when the time comes. The only promises that matter are the ones written in your employment contract.
If they realise your value after handing in your notice and offer more money it says that they knew and thought they could keep you on the cheap keeping costs down.
I'm currently with a company that pays, within very tight margins, all people in the same position the same.
On the surface, all seems fair - but scrape down a little and there are those that have to work harder, to make up on the slack of those "not so good" people.
I feel I'm earning what I'm worth - at the moment, however it my pay stagnates and I continue to increase my skills and experience the way I am - I'll simply get my name out to the agencies and see what else is available.
I know that the company will not rock the boat and start paying someone significantly more.
On the surface, all seems fair - but scrape down a little and there are those that have to work harder, to make up on the slack of those "not so good" people.
I feel I'm earning what I'm worth - at the moment, however it my pay stagnates and I continue to increase my skills and experience the way I am - I'll simply get my name out to the agencies and see what else is available.
I know that the company will not rock the boat and start paying someone significantly more.
Stoofa said:
I'm currently with a company that pays, within very tight margins, all people in the same position the same.
On the surface, all seems fair - but scrape down a little and there are those that have to work harder, to make up on the slack of those "not so good" people.
I feel I'm earning what I'm worth - at the moment, however it my pay stagnates and I continue to increase my skills and experience the way I am - I'll simply get my name out to the agencies and see what else is available.
I know that the company will not rock the boat and start paying someone significantly more.
...which means the company ends up with the dross that are happy to get paid a decent wage whilst doing the least amount to work possible, and anybody decent decides they might as well move and get appropriately rewarded for their efforts. On the surface, all seems fair - but scrape down a little and there are those that have to work harder, to make up on the slack of those "not so good" people.
I feel I'm earning what I'm worth - at the moment, however it my pay stagnates and I continue to increase my skills and experience the way I am - I'll simply get my name out to the agencies and see what else is available.
I know that the company will not rock the boat and start paying someone significantly more.
Countdown said:
Stoofa said:
I'm currently with a company that pays, within very tight margins, all people in the same position the same.
On the surface, all seems fair - but scrape down a little and there are those that have to work harder, to make up on the slack of those "not so good" people.
I feel I'm earning what I'm worth - at the moment, however it my pay stagnates and I continue to increase my skills and experience the way I am - I'll simply get my name out to the agencies and see what else is available.
I know that the company will not rock the boat and start paying someone significantly more.
...which means the company ends up with the dross that are happy to get paid a decent wage whilst doing the least amount to work possible, and anybody decent decides they might as well move and get appropriately rewarded for their efforts. On the surface, all seems fair - but scrape down a little and there are those that have to work harder, to make up on the slack of those "not so good" people.
I feel I'm earning what I'm worth - at the moment, however it my pay stagnates and I continue to increase my skills and experience the way I am - I'll simply get my name out to the agencies and see what else is available.
I know that the company will not rock the boat and start paying someone significantly more.
A should find an alternative job. If it pays more he has a choice
- take it
- say to his boss something like look here is a job I’m qualified to do and it sounds interesting. I’d rather not even apply for it, but as you can see, it pays £x more than I’m on now and the extra money would be quite handy. What do you think I should do?
- take it
- say to his boss something like look here is a job I’m qualified to do and it sounds interesting. I’d rather not even apply for it, but as you can see, it pays £x more than I’m on now and the extra money would be quite handy. What do you think I should do?
Countdown said:
Stoofa said:
I'm currently with a company that pays, within very tight margins, all people in the same position the same.
On the surface, all seems fair - but scrape down a little and there are those that have to work harder, to make up on the slack of those "not so good" people.
I feel I'm earning what I'm worth - at the moment, however it my pay stagnates and I continue to increase my skills and experience the way I am - I'll simply get my name out to the agencies and see what else is available.
I know that the company will not rock the boat and start paying someone significantly more.
...which means the company ends up with the dross that are happy to get paid a decent wage whilst doing the least amount to work possible, and anybody decent decides they might as well move and get appropriately rewarded for their efforts. On the surface, all seems fair - but scrape down a little and there are those that have to work harder, to make up on the slack of those "not so good" people.
I feel I'm earning what I'm worth - at the moment, however it my pay stagnates and I continue to increase my skills and experience the way I am - I'll simply get my name out to the agencies and see what else is available.
I know that the company will not rock the boat and start paying someone significantly more.
I knew what I was getting into before I took the job - the job, my team and managers were what swayed me to join in the first place. However 2yrs in and I can see those with the "that'll do" attitude and those who actually care about the work they are doing.
As I said, I am happy at the moment - instead of concentrating on what other people are not doing, I continue to do the job to the level I expect from myself. But come the point I've "outgrown" them, I won't start down the negotiation route as they won't want to upset the apple cart.
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