Property boundary help
Discussion
Waiting to get access to the proper plans/deeds but my parents have a shared garage with their neighbour.
The garage is approx 40ft. long and split into an L-shape (my dads) and a smaller rectangle which is the neighbours. This has been like this since each party moved in - parents 30+ years and neighbours 15+ years.
Neighbour has recently presented plans to extend his house which involves knocking down his garage but which he also states he's "taking back his boundary" by having to knock down the internal partition wall and moving it back 5ft (shown in yellow).
Doing this will render the rest of that part of the garage pretty useless and so the question i have is:
- Is there any caselaw / precedent etc to show that if a boundary has been uncontested for a period of time that it becomes accepted as the new boundary?
There is a lot of emotion surrounding this for reasons which I won't go in to, so trying to be as factual as possible.
Seeking legal advice but would be good to go in prepared.
Tl;dr - neighbour is proposing moving a boundary thats been accepted for over 30 years.
The garage is approx 40ft. long and split into an L-shape (my dads) and a smaller rectangle which is the neighbours. This has been like this since each party moved in - parents 30+ years and neighbours 15+ years.
Neighbour has recently presented plans to extend his house which involves knocking down his garage but which he also states he's "taking back his boundary" by having to knock down the internal partition wall and moving it back 5ft (shown in yellow).
Doing this will render the rest of that part of the garage pretty useless and so the question i have is:
- Is there any caselaw / precedent etc to show that if a boundary has been uncontested for a period of time that it becomes accepted as the new boundary?
There is a lot of emotion surrounding this for reasons which I won't go in to, so trying to be as factual as possible.
Seeking legal advice but would be good to go in prepared.
Tl;dr - neighbour is proposing moving a boundary thats been accepted for over 30 years.
surveyor said:
First thing to check is land registry which can searched online for both your parents and the neighbouring title.
I'm guessing there isn't any dispute over who owns the land - the question is "Can the OP's dad effectively take ownership of the neighbour's land after having had 30 years uncontested ownership"?My dad's going to be in a similar position soon but from "the other side of the fence" so to speak....
The adverse possession rules are different for registered and unregistered land. Would the neighbours property have been registered if it wasn't already when the neighbours bought it 15+ years ago?
So if the neighbours knew that that portion of their land had been adversely possessed when they moved in 15+ years ago, they've left the matter unresolved and allowed the adverse possession to continue uncontested for another 15+ years. If you don't enforce your rights you risk losing them. You snooze, you lose.
So if the neighbours knew that that portion of their land had been adversely possessed when they moved in 15+ years ago, they've left the matter unresolved and allowed the adverse possession to continue uncontested for another 15+ years. If you don't enforce your rights you risk losing them. You snooze, you lose.
Countdown said:
I'm guessing there isn't any dispute over who owns the land - the question is "Can the OP's dad effectively take ownership of the neighbour's land after having had 30 years uncontested ownership"?
My dad's going to be in a similar position soon but from "the other side of the fence" so to speak....
If the neighbour thought he owned that land, why would he not be trying to get back the whole length of that rear garage and not just the first 5ft?? My dad's going to be in a similar position soon but from "the other side of the fence" so to speak....
That whole land the garages sit on might once have belonged to the OP's parents property who built the garages and sold the front section to the neighbour. Land Registry plans will hopefully help.
Countdown said:
I'm guessing there isn't any dispute over who owns the land - the question is "Can the OP's dad effectively take ownership of the neighbour's land after having had 30 years uncontested ownership"?
Checking the registered title will show more than just who owns it - it will show who owns what - the yellow section may already be demised to OP's fatherEven if the plans show that area belongs to the neighbour, the OP's father may have acquired it via adverse possession.
The OP's father has controlled the land and enjoyed the use of the land as if it was his own. Until this time the neighbour seemingly has done nothing to take back control of the land and as such may have lost it.
The OP's father has controlled the land and enjoyed the use of the land as if it was his own. Until this time the neighbour seemingly has done nothing to take back control of the land and as such may have lost it.
carinaman said:
Even if the plans show that area belongs to the neighbour, the OP's father may have acquired it via adverse possession.
The OP's father has controlled the land and enjoyed the use of the land as if it was his own. Until this time the neighbour seemingly has done nothing to take back control of the land and as such may have lost it.
He has acquired nothing by adverse possession, unless he has taken action to actually do it. The OP's father has controlled the land and enjoyed the use of the land as if it was his own. Until this time the neighbour seemingly has done nothing to take back control of the land and as such may have lost it.
surveyor said:
carinaman said:
Even if the plans show that area belongs to the neighbour, the OP's father may have acquired it via adverse possession.
The OP's father has controlled the land and enjoyed the use of the land as if it was his own. Until this time the neighbour seemingly has done nothing to take back control of the land and as such may have lost it.
He has acquired nothing by adverse possession, unless he has taken action to actually do it. The OP's father has controlled the land and enjoyed the use of the land as if it was his own. Until this time the neighbour seemingly has done nothing to take back control of the land and as such may have lost it.
Has the OP's father controlled the disputed land by the internal wall in the garage that give's the OP's father exclusive control and enjoyment of the disputed land?
carinaman said:
surveyor said:
carinaman said:
Even if the plans show that area belongs to the neighbour, the OP's father may have acquired it via adverse possession.
The OP's father has controlled the land and enjoyed the use of the land as if it was his own. Until this time the neighbour seemingly has done nothing to take back control of the land and as such may have lost it.
He has acquired nothing by adverse possession, unless he has taken action to actually do it. The OP's father has controlled the land and enjoyed the use of the land as if it was his own. Until this time the neighbour seemingly has done nothing to take back control of the land and as such may have lost it.
Has the OP's father controlled the disputed land by the internal wall in the garage that give's the OP's father exclusive control and enjoyment of the disputed land?
And it sounds like the neighbour may have done something to take back control now.
surveyor said:
…..
And it sounds like the neighbour may have done something to take back control now.
...or the neighbour is a chancer trying to gain some land to facilitate their extension! And it sounds like the neighbour may have done something to take back control now.
If the two sections of the garage are divided by a wall that has always been present, the intended boundary will most likely be where that wall is, not roughly where it scales off an old deed plan.
The Surveyor said:
...or the neighbour is a chancer trying to gain some land to facilitate their extension!
If the two sections of the garage are divided by a wall that has always been present, the intended boundary will most likely be where that wall is, not roughly where it scales off an old deed plan.
Probs. See what the deeds / land registry say and go from there... follow the facts.If the two sections of the garage are divided by a wall that has always been present, the intended boundary will most likely be where that wall is, not roughly where it scales off an old deed plan.
surveyor said:
Means nothing unless the application is in.
I thought that was different for unregistered and registered land? You've assumed that the neighbour's property became registered land when the neighbours bought it 15+ years ago.
It could be that the start of the period of control and exclusive enjoyment of the disputed land not only exceeds the period of adverse possession required for both registered and unregistered land, but that the continuous, uncontested period of adverse possession started before the statute covering adverse possession of registered land was enacted.
Edited by carinaman on Monday 24th June 15:28
What's to say that the solicitors advising the neighbours haven't already told them that they've lost that portion of the land via adverse possession and this is one tactic to try to repossess it?
If it becomes an adverse possession dispute in the Courts any judge excusing the neighbours sleeping on and failing to enforce their rights could set an unhelpful and unworkable precedent?
If it becomes an adverse possession dispute in the Courts any judge excusing the neighbours sleeping on and failing to enforce their rights could set an unhelpful and unworkable precedent?
Edited by carinaman on Monday 24th June 15:49
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff