Child Maintenance
Discussion
My partners ex is paying £109 a month maintenance for 4 children under the age of 14. He is a nurse and works 'bank' shifts. I know he is playing the system somehow, he previously used to pay £602 a month. He hardly sees the kids and he openly smug about how little he has to pay for them, the cost then falls down on us. The CSA wont review the figures unless his wage changes by 25%. What can we do, if anything about this with the CSA, can they be challenged. This a
hole seems to be getting away with not paying sweet FA for his own children.
hole seems to be getting away with not paying sweet FA for his own children.Is it feasible his income could fall outside PAYE perhaps if he were operating as a locum / self employed?
You could raise this with the CMS, ask them to apply a variation taking unearned income into account and also explain the disparity between his income for the purpose of their calculation and lifestyle, plus the previous much greater liability suggesting something has changed in the way his income is now structured.
I wouldn’t get your hopes up though, they are fking useless.
You could raise this with the CMS, ask them to apply a variation taking unearned income into account and also explain the disparity between his income for the purpose of their calculation and lifestyle, plus the previous much greater liability suggesting something has changed in the way his income is now structured.
I wouldn’t get your hopes up though, they are f
king useless.wjwren said:
My partners ex is paying £109 a month maintenance for 4 children under the age of 14. He is a nurse and works 'bank' shifts. I know he is playing the system somehow, he previously used to pay £602 a month. He hardly sees the kids and he openly smug about how little he has to pay for them, the cost then falls down on us. The CSA wont review the figures unless his wage changes by 25%. What can we do, if anything about this with the CSA, can they be challenged. This ahole seems to be getting away with not paying sweet FA for his own children.
Why were the CSA involved?hole seems to be getting away with not paying sweet FA for his own children.Bank shifts only or regular hours plus extra bank?
Bank shifts only would mean no guarantee of a regular monthly income.
Both NHS bank and regular contract are PAYE - so it would be tricky to hide income.
Bank shifts aren’t paid at a higher rate either (working as an agency nurse would be however) so don’t assume that they are earning more.
Get some facts and go from there?
Keep in mind that, depending on what band they are, working as a bank nurse only is not a lucrative profession.
Bank shifts only would mean no guarantee of a regular monthly income.
Both NHS bank and regular contract are PAYE - so it would be tricky to hide income.
Bank shifts aren’t paid at a higher rate either (working as an agency nurse would be however) so don’t assume that they are earning more.
Get some facts and go from there?
Keep in mind that, depending on what band they are, working as a bank nurse only is not a lucrative profession.
Its now called CMO not CSA. Basically the same thing. Either way he does not remotely provide for his kids and expects others to. CSA were invooled as he used the monthly payment as a control method, sometimes he would pay £300 next month it would be £33, next month £600. He is diagnosed with bi polar so depends on what mood he is in to what she gets, so went through the CSA.
wjwren said:
Its now called CMO not CSA. Basically the same thing. Either way he does not remotely provide for his kids and expects others to. CSA were invooled as he used the monthly payment as a control method, sometimes he would pay £300 next month it would be £33, next month £600. He is diagnosed with bi polar so depends on what mood he is in to what she gets, so went through the CSA.
And there, probably, is the problem. Breakdown in agreement over paying child maintenance, one party goes to CSA/CMO expecting it to be sorted, and is surprised by how little is actually mandated.Quite common.
To give some idea of their incompetence I was assessed as having a liability of £27/week on an income of approx £100k despite pointing out my income arrangements to them.
Then they applied a variation to get the correct sum which took several months despite me giving the figures on day 1.
Then they calculated I owed £7k in arrears even though I had been paying the ex privately and as far as I know she told them this herself.
They came up with about 6 different calculations in as many weeks. At least two of them were dated on the same day!
It was mental enough to assure my ex that she should just drop the case and make a private arrangement.
Which she did, then immediately started financial remedy proceedings and £35k in legal costs later gets me to agree to a global maintenance order a few hundred quid a month greater than I was paying.
Amazing what st can be avoided if two people are willing to co-operate and behave responsibly.
Then they applied a variation to get the correct sum which took several months despite me giving the figures on day 1.
Then they calculated I owed £7k in arrears even though I had been paying the ex privately and as far as I know she told them this herself.
They came up with about 6 different calculations in as many weeks. At least two of them were dated on the same day!
It was mental enough to assure my ex that she should just drop the case and make a private arrangement.
Which she did, then immediately started financial remedy proceedings and £35k in legal costs later gets me to agree to a global maintenance order a few hundred quid a month greater than I was paying.
Amazing what s
t can be avoided if two people are willing to co-operate and behave responsibly.wjwren said:
Its now called CMO not CSA. Basically the same thing. Either way he does not remotely provide for his kids and expects others to. CSA were invooled as he used the monthly payment as a control method, sometimes he would pay £300 next month it would be £33, next month £600. He is diagnosed with bi polar so depends on what mood he is in to what she gets, so went through the CSA.
CM is calculated on the P60 earning which CMS access direct from HMRC. If he is PAYE then the CM is what it is. There is no requirement for the non resident parent to work harder so that more CM is liable.
I would put a large sum down that he is working agency, but not playing by the rules and working PAYE following the rule changes around IR35 and the public sector in 2017, but taking his payments through a somewhat shady umbrella company.
It'll be structured as a reverse annuity/loan etc. But the net result is a PAYE income of £15,000 ish and the balance paid essentially with no tax paid.
Referred to in the industry as a 90% umbrella, dodgy umbrella etc.
Of course if there is no tax paid as it's a "loan" or annuity obligation, it won't appear on the P60, and therefore not form part of the calculation for child support purposes.
Could be worthwhile pointing this out to him, and mentioning that you are not interested in his tax affairs, providing that the maintenance payment return to the previous level.
Be a shame if HMRC got any information about such practices sent to them regarding him...
It'll be structured as a reverse annuity/loan etc. But the net result is a PAYE income of £15,000 ish and the balance paid essentially with no tax paid.
Referred to in the industry as a 90% umbrella, dodgy umbrella etc.
Of course if there is no tax paid as it's a "loan" or annuity obligation, it won't appear on the P60, and therefore not form part of the calculation for child support purposes.
Could be worthwhile pointing this out to him, and mentioning that you are not interested in his tax affairs, providing that the maintenance payment return to the previous level.
Be a shame if HMRC got any information about such practices sent to them regarding him...
Paul the Painter said:
I would put a large sum down that he is working agency, but not playing by the rules and working PAYE following the rule changes around IR35 and the public sector in 2017, but taking his payments through a somewhat shady umbrella company.
It'll be structured as a reverse annuity/loan etc. But the net result is a PAYE income of £15,000 ish and the balance paid essentially with no tax paid.
Referred to in the industry as a 90% umbrella, dodgy umbrella etc.
Of course if there is no tax paid as it's a "loan" or annuity obligation, it won't appear on the P60, and therefore not form part of the calculation for child support purposes.
Could be worthwhile pointing this out to him, and mentioning that you are not interested in his tax affairs, providing that the maintenance payment return to the previous level.
Be a shame if HMRC got any information about such practices sent to them regarding him...
Is anyone mental enough to still do this?It'll be structured as a reverse annuity/loan etc. But the net result is a PAYE income of £15,000 ish and the balance paid essentially with no tax paid.
Referred to in the industry as a 90% umbrella, dodgy umbrella etc.
Of course if there is no tax paid as it's a "loan" or annuity obligation, it won't appear on the P60, and therefore not form part of the calculation for child support purposes.
Could be worthwhile pointing this out to him, and mentioning that you are not interested in his tax affairs, providing that the maintenance payment return to the previous level.
Be a shame if HMRC got any information about such practices sent to them regarding him...
Or is the health sector generally less aware of HMRC’s crack down on schemes?
Working on a floor of banking IT contractors there are at least a handful of guys I work with directly having to cough up over loans / EBT schemes from the past.
The schemes who still cold call me seem to have moved onto annuities now but they are blatantly on HMRC’s radar as tax avoidance schemes:
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/disguised-remuneration...
Edited by theboss on Friday 6th September 13:58
Health sector was pretty much all limited company before April 17. IR35 and rate caps hit at the same time. Very little knowledge about umbrellas in the workforce, combined with some very intelligent people with not a lot of common sense, plus some convincing sales folk. Perfect storm. They'll be some houses being sold in a few years
We actually require payslip copies from umbrellas for our workers, some are more forthcoming than others, done are more convincing than others.
We actually require payslip copies from umbrellas for our workers, some are more forthcoming than others, done are more convincing than others.
No idea how it works now, but when they calculated my amount it was basically:
How many nights a week do you have the child x how many weeks in the year there are, that gives you the nightly banding 0-52 / 53-104 PA etc etc.
Then they took my PAYE reference number, then my SE details.
Accessed their system to confirm the above = the amount i pay.
How many nights a week do you have the child x how many weeks in the year there are, that gives you the nightly banding 0-52 / 53-104 PA etc etc.
Then they took my PAYE reference number, then my SE details.
Accessed their system to confirm the above = the amount i pay.
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