Towbar homologation questions
Discussion
I have a towbar fitted to my current vehicle solely to carry a cycle carrier (by far the best way to transport bikes by car).
However some idle internet searching the other day revealed that the new equivalent of my car is the only version in the range that is not ‘homologated’ for a towbar.
A couple of questions on this:
1. The only significant difference from my current car seems to be a slightly bigger engine. I can’t see why this would make it less capable of towing?
2. If there is some over-riding reason why it couldn’t pull a huge Caravan for example (the only thing I could think of was that the new engine runs hotter, or clutch is known to be weak?). Then why not just put a low weight limit on, to allow a small garden trailer etc?
However some idle internet searching the other day revealed that the new equivalent of my car is the only version in the range that is not ‘homologated’ for a towbar.
A couple of questions on this:
1. The only significant difference from my current car seems to be a slightly bigger engine. I can’t see why this would make it less capable of towing?
2. If there is some over-riding reason why it couldn’t pull a huge Caravan for example (the only thing I could think of was that the new engine runs hotter, or clutch is known to be weak?). Then why not just put a low weight limit on, to allow a small garden trailer etc?
Zulu 10 said:
tehguy said:
If it is not approved by the manufacturer then it is not legal.
That is incorrect: the regulations for vehicles built after 1998 state that if the vehicle is not Type Approved for towing then it must not be used for such. The manufacturers do not issue their own approvals - they provide the design data set and supporting evidence to an approvals authority. If the manufacturer chooses not to supply evidence in support of ability to tow, then the model's type approval, once granted, won't include use for towing.
There is nothing to stop anyone subsequently applying to any one of the many type approval organisations across Europe and providing a design data set that presents a reasoned justification in support of an application for Type Approval for the addition/use of a tow bar.
4rephill said:
The problem is, if the cars structure has not been designed with towing in mind, you could be causing stress damage to the suspension components, chassis or floor pan that could be a contributing factor in an incident later on.
There is a reason why certain cars are not type approved for towing and it's usually for structural safety reasons and not just for the hell of it!
Whilst I agree with your point regarding stresses, sometime the manufacturers decide on a whim not to seek type approval for a particular model. As a case in point, consider Mercedes who seem to be of the opinion that they don't want the lines of their coupe models spoilt by towed detritus, hence they haven't sought EU Type Approval for the CLS even though it shares floor-pan pressings and powertrain with the E Class. Consequently the CLS isn't type approved even though it would make an admirable tow car.There is a reason why certain cars are not type approved for towing and it's usually for structural safety reasons and not just for the hell of it!
Edited by Zulu 10 on Monday 16th December 2013 17:21
I've just ordered a Mercedes E-class (hybrid estate) with a towbar.
I was unable to opt for the Premium Plus pack, which adds a sunroof and decent stereo, whilst still retaining the towbar.
The explanation was because of the extra weight of the options.
I suspect that this is because of type-approval could not be passed within the desired emissions achievement.
Either that, or Mercedes couldn't be bothered with the expense of type-approving that combination of options.
I was unable to opt for the Premium Plus pack, which adds a sunroof and decent stereo, whilst still retaining the towbar.
The explanation was because of the extra weight of the options.
I suspect that this is because of type-approval could not be passed within the desired emissions achievement.
Either that, or Mercedes couldn't be bothered with the expense of type-approving that combination of options.
From my brief research, there is not a car that would get the average PHer’s heart pumping that has type approval for a tow bar.
I first looked at a Scirroco a few years ago and discovered that, unlike the Golf, it did not have type approval. More recently I discovered that a Civic Type R, Focus ST, Golf GTi, Mercedes A45 etc are not approved.
So it seems if you want to carry a cycle, tow a Jetski or a track car then you should buy a SUV or just something else more mundane.
I first looked at a Scirroco a few years ago and discovered that, unlike the Golf, it did not have type approval. More recently I discovered that a Civic Type R, Focus ST, Golf GTi, Mercedes A45 etc are not approved.
So it seems if you want to carry a cycle, tow a Jetski or a track car then you should buy a SUV or just something else more mundane.
Yes, it's a problem. Had a similar issue buying a tow car for the track car. Ended up with a Merc E-class Coupe e350 petrol. That was as the best I could find (didn't want a diesel) that had towing type approval. The merc salesman thought I was mad when I turned up and the first thing I wanted to look at was the identification plate to check it had a towing weight.
The modern world is a bit sad.
Simon
The modern world is a bit sad.
Simon
There is also some cars whose bodywork doesn't allow a towbar to fit, particularly those with large rear splitters.
The Mk7 / 7.5 Golf R Estate is a good example.
Towbars are fin across all Mk7 Golf Estates except the R. Same chassis, and loads more power, but VW didn't design a way for a towbar to co-exist with the splitter. On the MK7.5 you could have a towbar as a factory option on the R.
The Mk7 / 7.5 Golf R Estate is a good example.
Towbars are fin across all Mk7 Golf Estates except the R. Same chassis, and loads more power, but VW didn't design a way for a towbar to co-exist with the splitter. On the MK7.5 you could have a towbar as a factory option on the R.
rdjohn said:
From my brief research, there is not a car that would get the average PHer’s heart pumping that has type approval for a tow bar.
I first looked at a Scirroco a few years ago and discovered that, unlike the Golf, it did not have type approval. More recently I discovered that a Civic Type R, Focus ST, Golf GTi, Mercedes A45 etc are not approved.
So it seems if you want to carry a cycle, tow a Jetski or a track car then you should buy a SUV or just something else more mundane.
Is there such a thing as an average PHer? I wouldn't be excited about any of the cars you mentioned. Wasn't the Golf R or GTi estate approved though?I first looked at a Scirroco a few years ago and discovered that, unlike the Golf, it did not have type approval. More recently I discovered that a Civic Type R, Focus ST, Golf GTi, Mercedes A45 etc are not approved.
So it seems if you want to carry a cycle, tow a Jetski or a track car then you should buy a SUV or just something else more mundane.
For Mercedes models the AMG ones seem to be the only ones not homologated for towing, from what I can make out the S600 (biturbo V12 barge, very PH) is, as are the previous generation E500s (excluding the coupe-only release of the E500 in the UK). The old ML63 was the only AMG type-approved.
My Mk7 GTI has a factory fit fully hidden towbar. It annoys the hell out of me too that (particularly German) manufacturers seem to decree that having a 'performance' model in some way means you have no interest in having a towbar. Lots of Audi S/RS aren't approved (it varies from year to year whether one out of the available options is approved - IIRC on the RS6 it depends if you have air suspension or not as to whether a towbar is legal to use for towing)
On the point about fitting - the offence related to fitting a towbar and using it on a vehicle that is not type approved relates to its use only. So if you are towing, and the VIN plate doesn't quote a train weight limit for towing, that would be an offence. However unlikely you might be to get stopped for doing so.....
If you want to use a towbar to fit a cycle carrier that simply uses the towbar as a loading point (so no wheels on the ground) that is legal to use. The vehicle manufacturer may not make it easy for you, and many towbar suppliers/fitters may choose not to supply you with parts, but some will and just get you to sign on the paperwork to make clear you are aware of the limitations on its use to remain legal.
I believe some of the issues with sportier models of otherwise fairly mundane vehicles relates to cooling systems being man enough for the car alone, but if loaded to max train weight could potentially struggle. Would be better, if that were the case, if they were approved to a lower train weight rather than not at all....
On the point about fitting - the offence related to fitting a towbar and using it on a vehicle that is not type approved relates to its use only. So if you are towing, and the VIN plate doesn't quote a train weight limit for towing, that would be an offence. However unlikely you might be to get stopped for doing so.....
If you want to use a towbar to fit a cycle carrier that simply uses the towbar as a loading point (so no wheels on the ground) that is legal to use. The vehicle manufacturer may not make it easy for you, and many towbar suppliers/fitters may choose not to supply you with parts, but some will and just get you to sign on the paperwork to make clear you are aware of the limitations on its use to remain legal.
I believe some of the issues with sportier models of otherwise fairly mundane vehicles relates to cooling systems being man enough for the car alone, but if loaded to max train weight could potentially struggle. Would be better, if that were the case, if they were approved to a lower train weight rather than not at all....
I'd be really happy if my C55 AMG estate could fit a removable tow-bar, as the 850R estate that went before it could - but as has been said no AMG is submitted for type approval, despite being largely a stock C class.
As it stands I've ended up fitting bike carriers to the roof-rails, but whilst that's fine for me the Mrs can't reach a bike if it's in the middle position, so a tow-bar mount would be better.
First world problem I guess, but it's a shame that these cars weren't considered for people who might want to (as has been said) tow their track car, or head to bike park Wales etc etc.
As it stands I've ended up fitting bike carriers to the roof-rails, but whilst that's fine for me the Mrs can't reach a bike if it's in the middle position, so a tow-bar mount would be better.
First world problem I guess, but it's a shame that these cars weren't considered for people who might want to (as has been said) tow their track car, or head to bike park Wales etc etc.
donkmeister said:
Wasn't the Golf R or GTi estate approved though?
There was an error in the online configurator for the Mk7.5R that suggested a towing pack was available - I delved into it, having ruled out a Mk7 R estate for that reason, and turns out the website was wrong. Haven't looked to see if it got corrected There is no GTI estate, unfortunately
Jarcy said:
I've just ordered a Mercedes E-class (hybrid estate) with a towbar.
I was unable to opt for the Premium Plus pack, which adds a sunroof and decent stereo, whilst still retaining the towbar.
The explanation was because of the extra weight of the options.
I suspect that this is because of type-approval could not be passed within the desired emissions achievement.
Either that, or Mercedes couldn't be bothered with the expense of type-approving that combination of options.
Could the stealer not tell you if the vehicle with the premium plus pack would have the right approval and towing weight on the badge? As that would be easy to order as a stealer fit option?I was unable to opt for the Premium Plus pack, which adds a sunroof and decent stereo, whilst still retaining the towbar.
The explanation was because of the extra weight of the options.
I suspect that this is because of type-approval could not be passed within the desired emissions achievement.
Either that, or Mercedes couldn't be bothered with the expense of type-approving that combination of options.
Another case in point; Mondy ST220 Estate, not homologated for towing, but what a wonderful tow car!
Precluded presumably due to the deeper rear bumper, but I sought out a bar design for the standard V6 Mk3 Estate with a deep swan-neck and only had to modify the bumper slightly. It's a keeper work-horse so not concerned about selling it on like this, and tbh I think the police have better things to do than stop peeps on the way to the tip on a Sunday morning to check chassis plates... I probably wouldn't embark on a European caravan touring holiday though
Precluded presumably due to the deeper rear bumper, but I sought out a bar design for the standard V6 Mk3 Estate with a deep swan-neck and only had to modify the bumper slightly. It's a keeper work-horse so not concerned about selling it on like this, and tbh I think the police have better things to do than stop peeps on the way to the tip on a Sunday morning to check chassis plates... I probably wouldn't embark on a European caravan touring holiday though
MarcelM6 said:
Range Rover Supercharged takes a towbar
Audi RS6 - friend of mine has a towbar on his
Lots of older performance cars take towbars - I've even seen them on 911's
Agree with the point on Merc CLS - had one of those, would have been a wonderful car to take the bikes on.
RS6 is definitely not plated for towing, a friend of mine has one and this has come up in conversation (about using a rear mounted bike carrier).Audi RS6 - friend of mine has a towbar on his
Lots of older performance cars take towbars - I've even seen them on 911's
Agree with the point on Merc CLS - had one of those, would have been a wonderful car to take the bikes on.
I have a 911 and wouldn't like to tow with that, having had a look at the structure, you're going to be mounting the hitch on the rear crash structure.
TwinKam said:
Another case in point; Mondy ST220 Estate, not homologated for towing, but what a wonderful tow car!
Precluded presumably due to the deeper rear bumper, but I sought out a bar design for the standard V6 Mk3 Estate with a deep swan-neck and only had to modify the bumper slightly. It's a keeper work-horse so not concerned about selling it on like this, and tbh I think the police have better things to do than stop peeps on the way to the tip on a Sunday morning to check chassis plates... I probably wouldn't embark on a European caravan touring holiday though
OTOH the Mk4 2.5T *is* homologated for towing and makes a far better tow car. Precluded presumably due to the deeper rear bumper, but I sought out a bar design for the standard V6 Mk3 Estate with a deep swan-neck and only had to modify the bumper slightly. It's a keeper work-horse so not concerned about selling it on like this, and tbh I think the police have better things to do than stop peeps on the way to the tip on a Sunday morning to check chassis plates... I probably wouldn't embark on a European caravan touring holiday though
It is however massively frustrating. I don't actually tow very often (less than once a year on average) so a dedicated sensible tow car isn't required but both want it for the ability to tow a bike trailer as well as the bicycle carrier. For the rest of the year want something reasonably fast and reasonably handling while being family friendly.
In short I want a fast estate and because I don't do too many miles (and hate the way they make their power) diesel is out and on the same note I dislike autos.
The number of fast, manual, petrol estates that can tow can be counted on the fingers of one head.
Current (as in the just released 2.3T one) Focus ST Estate is the only one I know of. Any others? Volvo, BMW, Audi, Mercedes don't make one anymore.
Dammit said:
RS6 is definitely not plated for towing, a friend of mine has one and this has come up in conversation (about using a rear mounted bike carrier).
I have a 911 and wouldn't like to tow with that, having had a look at the structure, you're going to be mounting the hitch on the rear crash structure.
The RS6 - it's the one after the V10 twin turbo model. Maybe not homologated, but towbar is on! I'll leave it to him to check.I have a 911 and wouldn't like to tow with that, having had a look at the structure, you're going to be mounting the hitch on the rear crash structure.
I was talking about older 911s - pre 964 model. The only crash structure they had were sturdy bumpers.
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