Domestic violence question

[james_TW]

On my road, there's a couple who are always going at it - I'm not sure which of them is worse than the other, but it's a regular occurence that they are yelling and screaming at each other with regular threats from him. The police have been called on a regular basis, the latest last night (by me) with the call handler actually asking "is that them in the background?"

Windows are regularly smashed (up until a couple of months ago, ALL the windows were put through) and last night, I think the front door was kicked in - The police don't seem to be able to do anything as she always seems to defend him to them and no further action is taken.

Add to this the complication that they have a baby which you can hear screaming and crying and clearly in some distress - Social services have been round on many occasions and at one point they were clearly avoiding them by either not answering or just moving out for a few weeks. The baby is 6 months old (I think) and is clearly underweight and just tiny - she drank and smoked (many things) through pregnancy and has already had kids taken off her previously.

Last night, he hit her and threw her over a fence and there's a video that shows this - I reported that he'd hit her, but didn't see the video until later.

My question is this: At what point, if any, can the police intervene in this? Does she have to make a complaint? And at what point to social services actually get involved? The baby doesn't appear to be at risk of physical harm (apart from her size/distress), but you can see and hear that this clearly isn't healthy or a good environment to be in.

My neighbour is keeping a noise diary which, I suspect, will achieve nothing, even though the noise is constant and regular - I feel for them and their family as they deal with this on a regular basis.

Sorry for the long story - Needed to get this off my chest

[Fatball]

The police can take action without the victims support. However, the cps may decide not to take any further action if not supported by the victim. There are domestic violence protection orders that can be applied for by the police that are issued by the court and gives the victim protection from the offender for 28 days. Even if they share a home the order means the offender cannot live there. These are to help people make choices without pressure and offer protection in general.

The social services will be involved and assessing the risk to the family from the offender and will tell the victim that child will be removed if the offender is living at the address.

The victim can be rehoused and can be given a new mobile phone while their own is being forensically examined due to threats. Fire safety assessments can be completed among various other things that can be put in place. The victim can apply for a non molestation order, this is a civil order that has a power if arrest if the offender breaches conditions set by it and its straight to court for that.

The main issue is that in my own experience the victim often takes the offender back and the cycle starts again. Either by pressure of a genuine love for them that is hard to break even after they’ve had a kicking several times.

There is a national crisis with domestic violence that most people are unaware of, police officers deal with domestic violence every day. It takes whole shifts or longer to deal with if there is an arrest and if it wasn’t for domestic violence you would see a lot of police on the streets. It’s a massive problem and way more common than you would think. Officers can go to multiple dv incidents in one shift and quite often deal with nothing else in a set of shifts.

I’ve had a few high risk cases and have spent huge amounts of time to safeguard victims and their families only for the victim to retract prior to court or take the offender back and have offender in court with the victim forced there as a witness while they are back in a relationship.

Even for a standard risk incident which would be an argument reported by a neighbour would take close to 2 hours to deal with and write up and completes various tasks and reports before moving on to the next one.

Just finished nights after 6 in so apologies if there’s any spelling errors or if I’ve missed something off.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

james_TW said:

And at what point to social services actually get involved? The baby doesn't appear to be at risk of physical harm (apart from her size/distress), but you can see and hear that this clearly isn't healthy or a good environment to be in.

The sad truth is, if social services took into care every child being brought up in an unhealthy environment, without actually being at risk of physical harm, they'd probably be taking over a million kids off their scumbag parents tomorrow. Where would we put them, who would look after them, and who would pick up the financial cost?

Sadly, it's best they concentrate on the kids that are at risk of physical harm, and leave the rest to try and make the best of their stty upbringing.

[james_TW]

fatball said:

Lots of good stuff

Thanks for that - Useful insight.

fatball said:

The main issue is that in my own experience the victim often takes the offender back and the cycle starts again. Either by pressure of a genuine love for them that is hard to break even after they’ve had a kicking several times.

This is probably it - He's come home, drunk or high, and kick off with her or her mates. There was, at one point, a warrant out for his arrest for something yet this carries on. The damage to the house is, from what I hear, extensive and the landlord was oblivious to all this (he knows now though as he's been given chapter and verse) - Any damage was blamed on "Romanians putting the windows through", despite the broken glass being on the outside

I overhead one officer say something along the lines of "we're here again" and on previous occasions, there have been multiple cars and many officers almost fighting to get in.

[james_TW]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

james_TW said:

And at what point to social services actually get involved? The baby doesn't appear to be at risk of physical harm (apart from her size/distress), but you can see and hear that this clearly isn't healthy or a good environment to be in.

The sad truth is, if social services took into care every child being brought up in an unhealthy environment, without actually being at risk of physical harm, they'd probably be taking over a million kids off their scumbag parents tomorrow. Where would we put them, who would look after them, and who would pick up the financial cost?

Sadly, it's best they concentrate on the kids that are at risk of physical harm, and leave the rest to try and make the best of their stty upbringing.

The child is being brought up in this environment, with (arguably unfit) parents that physically fight (I've seen the video from last night), in a cold house as the windows are almost always broken and probably not being fed properly. Add to this that the child is subjected to cigarette AND cannabis smoke on a regular basis.

It's sad to see and distressing for the immediate neighbours.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

james_TW said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

james_TW said:

And at what point to social services actually get involved? The baby doesn't appear to be at risk of physical harm (apart from her size/distress), but you can see and hear that this clearly isn't healthy or a good environment to be in.

The sad truth is, if social services took into care every child being brought up in an unhealthy environment, without actually being at risk of physical harm, they'd probably be taking over a million kids off their scumbag parents tomorrow. Where would we put them, who would look after them, and who would pick up the financial cost?

Sadly, it's best they concentrate on the kids that are at risk of physical harm, and leave the rest to try and make the best of their stty upbringing.

The child is being brought up in this environment, with (arguably unfit) parents that physically fight (I've seen the video from last night), in a cold house as the windows are almost always broken and probably not being fed properly. Add to this that the child is subjected to cigarette AND cannabis smoke on a regular basis.

It's sad to see and distressing for the immediate neighbours.

I agree it's awful. And no child should be dragged up that way. But the reality is, so many are, the state can't possible deal with that issue. Social services are understaffed, underpaid and overworked. They have to prioritise as best they can. Kids in imminent risk of physical harm must come first.

[Terzo123]

james_TW said:

On my road, there's a couple who are always going at it - I'm not sure which of them is worse than the other, but it's a regular occurence that they are yelling and screaming at each other with regular threats from him. The police have been called on a regular basis, the latest last night (by me) with the call handler actually asking "is that them in the background?"

Windows are regularly smashed (up until a couple of months ago, ALL the windows were put through) and last night, I think the front door was kicked in - The police don't seem to be able to do anything as she always seems to defend him to them and no further action is taken.

Add to this the complication that they have a baby which you can hear screaming and crying and clearly in some distress - Social services have been round on many occasions and at one point they were clearly avoiding them by either not answering or just moving out for a few weeks. The baby is 6 months old (I think) and is clearly underweight and just tiny - she drank and smoked (many things) through pregnancy and has already had kids taken off her previously.

Last night, he hit her and threw her over a fence and there's a video that shows this - I reported that he'd hit her, but didn't see the video until later.

My question is this: At what point, if any, can the police intervene in this? Does she have to make a complaint? And at what point to social services actually get involved? The baby doesn't appear to be at risk of physical harm (apart from her size/distress), but you can see and hear that this clearly isn't healthy or a good environment to be in.

My neighbour is keeping a noise diary which, I suspect, will achieve nothing, even though the noise is constant and regular - I feel for them and their family as they deal with this on a regular basis.

Sorry for the long story - Needed to get this off my chest

Given the scenario described above In Scotland it would roughly go as follows,

Officers would have attended and ultimately arrested the male on suspicion of assault. They would have obtained a statement from you, listened to the 999 call made by yourself and others if multiple reports were received. They would have attempted to get a statement from the female. They would have observed any obvious signs of a disturbance taking pictures if there was anything obvious (damage to the door) Door to door and cctv enquires would have been conducted in the local area.

The male would them have been interveiwed. Even if he made a no comment interveiw he would have been held for court (possibly not for assault, but probably for a crime similar to a Breach of the peace, depending on evidence available).

Your statement, signs of a disturbance (damage to door) and the recording of the call to the police , would have provided sufficient corroboration to get the matter before a court. (Not necessarily enough to get a conviction though)

The male would then probably get released after his initial court appearance with bail preventing him from being at that house or approaching the female. A trial date would be set for sometime in the future.

The matter would be shared with social work as a matter of course.

[anonymous-user]

If there's enough evidence from other people, then the CPS are able to prosecute. I've had it a couple times when my exs neighbours were constantly arguing and the kitchen got smashed up one Sunday morning. It was so bad, it woke me up and its a detached property. The police came, she left in the end and was never seen again. He was a drunk and ended up committing suicide.
Another time I was driving home from work and caught a bloke punching his girlfriend and put her into a head lock. I stopped the car and ran towards them. He ran off. Police came and the bloke returned and got nicked. Fast forward and the girl turned up to defend him. It never worked as there was myself and another lady for the prosecution. He ended up up doing two months.
So yes, it works but someone needs to do something to start with no matter who it is.

[bucksmanuk]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

james_TW said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

james_TW said:

And at what point to social services actually get involved? The baby doesn't appear to be at risk of physical harm (apart from her size/distress), but you can see and hear that this clearly isn't healthy or a good environment to be in.

The sad truth is, if social services took into care every child being brought up in an unhealthy environment, without actually being at risk of physical harm, they'd probably be taking over a million kids off their scumbag parents tomorrow. Where would we put them, who would look after them, and who would pick up the financial cost?

Sadly, it's best they concentrate on the kids that are at risk of physical harm, and leave the rest to try and make the best of their stty upbringing.

The child is being brought up in this environment, with (arguably unfit) parents that physically fight (I've seen the video from last night), in a cold house as the windows are almost always broken and probably not being fed properly. Add to this that the child is subjected to cigarette AND cannabis smoke on a regular basis.

It's sad to see and distressing for the immediate neighbours.

I agree it's awful. And no child should be dragged up that way. But the reality is, so many are, the state can't possible deal with that issue. Social services are understaffed, underpaid and overworked. They have to prioritise as best they can. Kids in imminent risk of physical harm must come first.

Sad to say, this isn’t that unusual. A good friend of the family, a divorced chap on his own lived next to a couple who were constantly arguing at least, and many times screeching at each other at high volume with terrible language. We heard it once when we visited - unbelievable.
Ken saw their 4-year-old lad once standing outside waiting for it to stop and said he could come in and watch TV until it had finished. He shot straight into his lounge, sat down and watched the telly.
He came around every time mum and dad kicked off and asked if he could watch TV again at Ken’s, so he could blot it out and be “somewhere nice and quiet and safe” as the little lad put it. It happened a lot more when he realised he was going to be OK at Ken’s. Sometimes, he was sat in Ken’s lounge 3 or 4 times a week.

The little lad wasn’t in any danger himself, but unsurprisingly he was petrified, and concerned about what he was going back to each time. Ken sometimes came home from work to see the little lad stood in the driveway in the rain with his coat on by the back door, waiting to come in with him.
Each time the shouting stopped, the little lad calmly got up from the sofa and sloped off back home.

The boy was fed rubbish food but wasn’t skinny. As Twig has put it…Nothing social services or the police could do. There were no physical bruises on him, and he was never smacked – hence very low priority. It broke Ken’s heart to see this happening almost daily on his door step. The couple went their separate ways overnight, i.e. vanished - no goodbyes to anyone, and Ken never heard of him again. No-one ever thanked Ken for his efforts, but he knew it was the right thing to do.

It makes you wonder about the little lad’s long-term mental bruising though …

[Fatball]

bucksmanuk said:

Sad to say, this isn’t that unusual. A good friend of the family, a divorced chap on his own lived next to a couple who were constantly arguing at least, and many times screeching at each other at high volume with terrible language. We heard it once when we visited - unbelievable.
Ken saw their 4-year-old lad once standing outside waiting for it to stop and said he could come in and watch TV until it had finished. He shot straight into his lounge, sat down and watched the telly.
He came around every time mum and dad kicked off and asked if he could watch TV again at Ken’s, so he could blot it out and be “somewhere nice and quiet and safe” as the little lad put it. It happened a lot more when he realised he was going to be OK at Ken’s. Sometimes, he was sat in Ken’s lounge 3 or 4 times a week.

The little lad wasn’t in any danger himself, but unsurprisingly he was petrified, and concerned about what he was going back to each time. Ken sometimes came home from work to see the little lad stood in the driveway in the rain with his coat on by the back door, waiting to come in with him.
Each time the shouting stopped, the little lad calmly got up from the sofa and sloped off back home.

The boy was fed rubbish food but wasn’t skinny. As Twig has put it…Nothing social services or the police could do. There were no physical bruises on him, and he was never smacked – hence very low priority. It broke Ken’s heart to see this happening almost daily on his door step. The couple went their separate ways overnight, i.e. vanished - no goodbyes to anyone, and Ken never heard of him again. No-one ever thanked Ken for his efforts, but he knew it was the right thing to do.

It makes you wonder about the little lad’s long-term mental bruising though …

Imagine if Ken was a wrong’un. This is where kids like the 4 year old get really unlucky.

There should be more people like your friend in the world.

[james_TW]

bucksmanuk said:

Sad to say, this isn’t that unusual. A good friend of the family, a divorced chap on his own lived next to a couple who were constantly arguing at least, and many times screeching at each other at high volume with terrible language. We heard it once when we visited - unbelievable.
Ken saw their 4-year-old lad once standing outside waiting for it to stop and said he could come in and watch TV until it had finished. He shot straight into his lounge, sat down and watched the telly.
He came around every time mum and dad kicked off and asked if he could watch TV again at Ken’s, so he could blot it out and be “somewhere nice and quiet and safe” as the little lad put it. It happened a lot more when he realised he was going to be OK at Ken’s. Sometimes, he was sat in Ken’s lounge 3 or 4 times a week.

The little lad wasn’t in any danger himself, but unsurprisingly he was petrified, and concerned about what he was going back to each time. Ken sometimes came home from work to see the little lad stood in the driveway in the rain with his coat on by the back door, waiting to come in with him.
Each time the shouting stopped, the little lad calmly got up from the sofa and sloped off back home.

The boy was fed rubbish food but wasn’t skinny. As Twig has put it…Nothing social services or the police could do. There were no physical bruises on him, and he was never smacked – hence very low priority. It broke Ken’s heart to see this happening almost daily on his door step. The couple went their separate ways overnight, i.e. vanished - no goodbyes to anyone, and Ken never heard of him again. No-one ever thanked Ken for his efforts, but he knew it was the right thing to do.

It makes you wonder about the little lad’s long-term mental bruising though …

That's great what Ken has done - Hopefully he'll remember that kindness and it won't leave him with any trauma. Poor child.

[bucksmanuk]

Fatball said:

Imagine if Ken was a wrong’un. This is where kids like the 4 year old get really unlucky.

There should be more people like your friend in the world.

It was 1986/7 when the above occurred. As soon as I posted that, that was my first thought, what would happen today?

Someone would have grassed Ken up and Ken would have been carted off for close questioning by the authorities, his PC, tablet, written correspondence, phone etc… would have been confiscated, probably never returned and a few very uncomfortable face-to-face chats with his neighbours on the cards.
“No smoke without fire” would have circulated the town…

An innocent 4-year-old would have had no respite from the emotional minefield at home.

I think all a neighbour can do is have a quiet word with “someone carefully chosen in the appropriate authority”- easier said than done. As said above, sometimes it’s that quiet stern word that can make a difference. Although in the OPs case, this would probably set the bad neighbours off on a journey of retribution

[shep1001]

Let nature take its course, do nothing, not worth ending up as collateral damage.

Happened to a couple of mouth breathers on the social housing we had to endure on our development. cretin 1 clouted cretin 2 with a hammer, who is now a cabbage. All on CCTV so a long stretch in the big house is a given, kids taken off them so they stand a chance in life + their tenancy terminated so the house can be made available to a family that might respect & look after the property they are given.

Everyones a winner.

[Psycho Warren]

shep1001 said:

Let nature take its course, do nothing, not worth ending up as collateral damage.

Happened to a couple of mouth breathers on the social housing we had to endure on our development. cretin 1 clouted cretin 2 with a hammer, who is now a cabbage. All on CCTV so a long stretch in the big house is a given, kids taken off them so they stand a chance in life + their tenancy terminated so the house can be made available to a family that might respect & look after the property they are given.

Everyones a winner.

Except for the millions it will cost for lifetime care for said cabbage.