Install a hard shoulder on M3 NOW!!!!

[Aiminghigh123]

Ok this week twice the inside lane has been closed because of a broken down vehicle and once I had to take avoiding action because 2 blokes were walking in lane 1 (had to swerve to lane 2) when no speed reduction in place. No high vis. I called the police on the last point. Fortunately it was day light and wasn’t raining but how long before it’s too late!!!!

[SydneyBridge]

Rare to see anyone in the inside lane...

[anonymous-user]

How many more have to die before they ban these idiotic “smart” motorways? Utterly retarded.

[Turn7]

Schmed said:

How many more have to die before they ban these idiotic “smart” motorways? Utterly retarded.

I know! I cannot understand the totally moronic thinking that figured this was a good idea.........

[JulianHJ]

MCN reported this week that an FOI request shows over 19000 motorists have been stranded in live lanes on smart motorways in the last two years.

[RichardDastardly]

Completely agree.

While we’re on the topic of “smart motorways” the variable speed limits seem to often be applied unhelpfully too - eg. 50mph on the M1 at 2am with no sign of bad weather, lane closure or hardly any other car. It kind of gives the impression that someone in a control room somewhere clocked off from their shift and just left the 50mph sign on all night.

[Blanco92]

I drive a 16yr old Audi, obviously at that age it’s somewhat tatty, but mechanically sound. It’s always serviced and any faults that occur are soon fixed. Have driven it since 2007; I know it well. I’ve never had breakdown cover in all these years.

But the advent of these smart motorways concern me, so much so I’m thinking of a newer car. It’s no longer a guarantee that I have the safe haven a hard shoulder should bring. Have heard too many stories of recovery personnel accidentally killed. I wonder how many private individuals have suffered the same outcome.

I’m genuinely not a person who is a snowflake or a “worrier”. But all this could be avoided, not having a hard shoulder a few years ago was not acceptable, but now it is?!

[964Cup]

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201617/cms...

£21-35m per mile to build new lanes
£9.0m per mile to add some signs and use the hard shoulder

FOK how it can cost £9m for the latter, or indeed £35m for the former, but that's the reasoning.

According to the UK calculation method, the value of a human life is £1.83m:
https://www.bristol.ac.uk/media-library/sites/poli...

So if "smart" motorways save around £20m per mile, you can kill ten people for every mile converted before it becomes cheaper to build a proper motorway. Your two lane 1 ramblers wouldn't even be a rounding error in the calculation.

Don't you love the way the thinking works?

[Sporky]

To be fair, I need a project for the weekend.

Consider it done.

[xx99xx]

I heard on the radio this week, a researcher from a uni said that motorway accidents on the whole, have decreased with smart motorways (backed up by official stats apparently). However, accidents in lane 1 have increased.

So an overall decrease in accidents is a good thing isn't it? The guy didn't mention whether journey times had improved or not. Also no mention of pollution levels. He was just commenting on the hysteria about smart motorways being more dangerous.

Personally I'd find it terrifying if I broke down in a live lane 1, with my toddler on board.

[Earthdweller]

xx99xx said:

I heard on the radio this week, a researcher from a uni said that motorway accidents on the whole, have decreased with smart motorways (backed up by official stats apparently). However, accidents in lane 1 have increased.

So an overall decrease in accidents is a good thing isn't it? The guy didn't mention whether journey times had improved or not. Also no mention of pollution levels. He was just commenting on the hysteria about smart motorways being more dangerous.

Personally I'd find it terrifying if I broke down in a live lane 1, with my toddler on board.

Less fender benders more fatals

Seems a good swop !

[Flumpo]

Blanco92 said:

I drive a 16yr old Audi, obviously at that age it’s somewhat tatty, but mechanically sound. It’s always serviced and any faults that occur are soon fixed. Have driven it since 2007; I know it well. I’ve never had breakdown cover in all these years.

But the advent of these smart motorways concern me, so much so I’m thinking of a newer car. It’s no longer a guarantee that I have the safe haven a hard shoulder should bring. Have heard too many stories of recovery personnel accidentally killed. I wonder how many private individuals have suffered the same outcome.

I’m genuinely not a person who is a snowflake or a “worrier”. But all this could be avoided, not having a hard shoulder a few years ago was not acceptable, but now it is?!

I have a 5 year old car that has never let me down once in it’s 120k. Pulled off the m1 for piss and stared to rejoin was doing about 45 when I left the slip road and the car went into limp mode.

The massive gap I pulled into was quickly being demolished by a hgv heading straight at me. Hazards on and foot flat down the view in my rear view mirror was pretty scary. Luckily it wasn’t one of those knob head lorry drivers and he didn’t beep or flash.

But it’s made me think is it ready to ditch the car. Another day or lorry and who knows.

[oyster]

No one seems to complain about major single carriageway and dual carriageway roads that don’t have hard shoulders. There’s surely way more miles of these than smart motorways?
They also don’t have Red X gantries, variable speed limits or refuge points every mile that the smart motorways have.

[Initforthemoney]

oyster said:

No one seems to complain about major single carriageway and dual carriageway roads that don’t have hard shoulders. There’s surely way more miles of these than smart motorways?
They also don’t have Red X gantries, variable speed limits or refuge points every mile that the smart motorways have.

Yep.

We have a major A road that is almost as busy as the M3, and yet there have been very few, if any, accidents of any magnitude for many years.

[Sheepshanks]

Blanco92 said:

I drive a 16yr old Audi, obviously at that age it’s somewhat tatty, but mechanically sound. It’s always serviced and any faults that occur are soon fixed. Have driven it since 2007; I know it well. I’ve never had breakdown cover in all these years.

But the advent of these smart motorways concern me, so much so I’m thinking of a newer car. It’s no longer a guarantee that I have the safe haven a hard shoulder should bring. Have heard too many stories of recovery personnel accidentally killed. I wonder how many private individuals have suffered the same outcome.

I’m genuinely not a person who is a snowflake or a “worrier”. But all this could be avoided, not having a hard shoulder a few years ago was not acceptable, but now it is?!

I've got a 16yr old Merc, which I mainly use for long work trips, and I've never given this a second thought (until now, thanks).

I did have a series of breakdowns in company cars, and we changed them every two years. One left me in the lane 3 of the M62 for 40 mins.

[Graveworm]

Initforthemoney said:

Yep.

We have a major A road that is almost as busy as the M3, and yet there have been very few, if any, accidents of any magnitude for many years.

Of course motorways are much safer than A roads .

[gazapc]

964Cup said:

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201617/cms...

£21-35m per mile to build new lanes
£9.0m per mile to add some signs and use the hard shoulder

FOK how it can cost £9m for the latter, or indeed £35m for the former, but that's the reasoning.

According to the UK calculation method, the value of a human life is £1.83m:
https://www.bristol.ac.uk/media-library/sites/poli...

So if "smart" motorways save around £20m per mile, you can kill ten people for every mile converted before it becomes cheaper to build a proper motorway. Your two lane 1 ramblers wouldn't even be a rounding error in the calculation.

Don't you love the way the thinking works?

Interestingly, the current m4 smartification programme covers 32 miles and is to cost £860million. That is £27m per mile.... Crazy

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/am...

[RogueTrooper]

RichardDastardly said:

While we’re on the topic of “smart motorways” the variable speed limits seem to often be applied unhelpfully too - eg. 50mph on the M1 at 2am with no sign of bad weather, lane closure or hardly any other car.

IME (as a traffic cop) that points towards somebody has reported animals or pedestrians on the carriageway, or something similar, so the limit is lowered while somebody is sent to investigate.

[4rephill]

Blanco92 said:

I drive a 16yr old Audi, obviously at that age it’s somewhat tatty, but mechanically sound. It’s always serviced and any faults that occur are soon fixed. Have driven it since 2007; I know it well. I’ve never had breakdown cover in all these years.

But the advent of these smart motorways concern me, so much so I’m thinking of a newer car. It’s no longer a guarantee that I have the safe haven a hard shoulder should bring. Have heard too many stories of recovery personnel accidentally killed. I wonder how many private individuals have suffered the same outcome.

I’m genuinely not a person who is a snowflake or a “worrier”. But all this could be avoided, not having a hard shoulder a few years ago was not acceptable, but now it is?!

Plenty of newer cars suffer serious failures out the blue - Being newer is no guarantee!

Take a look through some of the recalls on this site: https://car-recalls.co.uk/ , and see how many are carried out on newer cars, due to serious safety concerns that could cause the car to stop working.

Yes, in general, newer cars should be more reliable than older cars, but sadly, that's not always the case.

Sometimes it's a case of: "Better the Devil you know, than the one you don't!"

[Solocle]

Graveworm said:

Initforthemoney said:

Yep.

We have a major A road that is almost as busy as the M3, and yet there have been very few, if any, accidents of any magnitude for many years.

Of course motorways are much safer than A roads .

Yep, I'd much rather cycle on a motorway with a hard shoulder, than a dual carriageway without. Which is completely contrary to the legal situation. I haven't done the former, but I have the latter. Sometimes, it's OK (7 am on the A34 was a doddle, equally 12 noon on a Sunday, on the 3 lane section of the A40 heading towards the Denham Roundabout from Oxford). Other times, it's pretty damn terrifying. At least a hard shoulder would give you a buffer from the motor traffic.

Afaik, the only fatal crash involving a bicycle on a motorway was on... the M3, and the cyclist was in L2!

ETA, found the government data. Bicycle / Motorcycle / Car / Bus or Coach / Van or LGV / HGV / All vehicles
2018:

2017:

2016:

Edited by Solocle on Saturday 19th October 13:37