Speeding NiP - Band B or C?
Discussion
I'll start this with: asking for a friend, SWIM, etc etc. Hopefully this can be kept to facts and not broken down into morality (we all know speeding is bad).
SWIM was pulled over on the motorway, police officer suggested at speeds "in excess of 100mph" on the initial approach. 22:30, quiet with low volumes of traffic.
Once inside the police car, the officer said they are unable to produce an exact speed "due to GPS not being hooked up" but did a follow-check whilst "reading out the calibrated speedo reading to the camera".
NIP produced, stating speed in excess of 70mph, with a recorded speed of 85-100mph.
This is a bit ambiguous because a) The forum posts I've read so far online have got an exact speed, not a range b) 100mph is the cut over between band B & C c) no further mention of speeds in excess of 100mph were mentioned after the initial window side conversation.
Having not been offered to see the footage, it's unknown whether the officer announces a speed over 100mph at any point.
Otherwise it's all very straight forward; first offence, clean license for 7 years. SWIM is erring on the side of a Band C fine of ~150% of weekly income (can't find a solid answer if this is gross or net) and 6 points, but the result could vary massively here given the slightly unclear nature.
Is this unusual?
SWIM was pulled over on the motorway, police officer suggested at speeds "in excess of 100mph" on the initial approach. 22:30, quiet with low volumes of traffic.
Once inside the police car, the officer said they are unable to produce an exact speed "due to GPS not being hooked up" but did a follow-check whilst "reading out the calibrated speedo reading to the camera".
NIP produced, stating speed in excess of 70mph, with a recorded speed of 85-100mph.
This is a bit ambiguous because a) The forum posts I've read so far online have got an exact speed, not a range b) 100mph is the cut over between band B & C c) no further mention of speeds in excess of 100mph were mentioned after the initial window side conversation.
Having not been offered to see the footage, it's unknown whether the officer announces a speed over 100mph at any point.
Otherwise it's all very straight forward; first offence, clean license for 7 years. SWIM is erring on the side of a Band C fine of ~150% of weekly income (can't find a solid answer if this is gross or net) and 6 points, but the result could vary massively here given the slightly unclear nature.
Is this unusual?
Edited by artois7 on Monday 21st October 16:11
Edited by artois7 on Monday 21st October 16:13
artois7 said:
I'll start this with: asking for a friend, SWIM, etc etc. Hopefully this can be kept to facts and not broken down into morality (we all know speeding is bad).
SWIM was pulled over on the motorway, police officer suggested at speeds "in excess of 100mph" on the initial approach. 22:30, quiet with low volumes of traffic.
Once inside the police car, the officer said they are unable to produce an exact speed "due to GPS not being hooked up" but did a follow-check whilst "reading out the calibrated speedo reading to the camera".
NIP produced, stating speed in excess of 70mph, with a recorded speed of 85-100mph.
This is a bit ambiguous because a) The forum posts I've read so far online have got an exact speed, not a range b) 100mph is the cut over between band B & C c) no further mention of speeds in excess of 100mph were mentioned after the initial window side conversation.
Having not been offered to see the footage, it's unknown whether the officer announces a speed over 100mph at any point.
Otherwise it's all very straight forward; first offence, clean licence for 7 years. SWIM is erring on the side of a Band C fine of ~150% of weekly income (can't find a solid answer if this is gross or net) and 6 points, but the result could vary massively here given the slightly unclear nature.
Is this unusual?
Will be interesting to see how this is deal with by the ticket office. I assume on the basis of the highest recorded speed.SWIM was pulled over on the motorway, police officer suggested at speeds "in excess of 100mph" on the initial approach. 22:30, quiet with low volumes of traffic.
Once inside the police car, the officer said they are unable to produce an exact speed "due to GPS not being hooked up" but did a follow-check whilst "reading out the calibrated speedo reading to the camera".
NIP produced, stating speed in excess of 70mph, with a recorded speed of 85-100mph.
This is a bit ambiguous because a) The forum posts I've read so far online have got an exact speed, not a range b) 100mph is the cut over between band B & C c) no further mention of speeds in excess of 100mph were mentioned after the initial window side conversation.
Having not been offered to see the footage, it's unknown whether the officer announces a speed over 100mph at any point.
Otherwise it's all very straight forward; first offence, clean licence for 7 years. SWIM is erring on the side of a Band C fine of ~150% of weekly income (can't find a solid answer if this is gross or net) and 6 points, but the result could vary massively here given the slightly unclear nature.
Is this unusual?
Up to and including 86 mph is usually a speed awareness course.
If a course is not available then up to and including 95 mph is usually a £100 fixed penalty with 3 penalty points.
If the alleged speed is 96 mph or above then court proceedings will commence. This is usually by SJPN.
Edited by agtlaw on Wednesday 11th March 15:10
Appreciate the responses, it's a very unusual situation from everything I can gather online.
The document is just a paper NIP, It has RR84019 (excess of 70) and on the "recorded speed" section it says 85-100. Nothing to note otherwise.
Fair cop, SWIM was speeding and will be pleading guilty at the earliest opportunity, it's just unclear at that point whether it's for a 100mph or 101+ allegation.
Time will tell...
The document is just a paper NIP, It has RR84019 (excess of 70) and on the "recorded speed" section it says 85-100. Nothing to note otherwise.
Fair cop, SWIM was speeding and will be pleading guilty at the earliest opportunity, it's just unclear at that point whether it's for a 100mph or 101+ allegation.
Time will tell...
I mean if they had you at 87 and 99 the ticket would not say 85-100, it would say 99mph as that’s the highest speed.
I reckon you could get away with saying you were doing below 90.
The police can’t say an exact speed so it would be harsh to penalise at 100mph.
I got done doing 124 in a 60 in Feb. Summoned in July.
I chose to plead guilty and attend court (as I knew I would get a dq)
Ended up with a 14 day ban and £1000 fine. Clean licence since passing at the age of 17 so 10 years no endorsements.
I reckon you could even end up with 3 points and £100 for that offence.
Wait and see I guess, they have 6 months to let you know if your summoned though. Mine came through 5 months and 2 weeks after I got pulled over.
My friend was doing 80 in a 50 and got a 30 day ban with a £1000 fine. he also paid £1000 for a solicitor where as I represented myself.
Be interesting to see what happens but when you find out I don’t mind giving my advice if you need it.
I reckon you could get away with saying you were doing below 90.
The police can’t say an exact speed so it would be harsh to penalise at 100mph.
I got done doing 124 in a 60 in Feb. Summoned in July.
I chose to plead guilty and attend court (as I knew I would get a dq)
Ended up with a 14 day ban and £1000 fine. Clean licence since passing at the age of 17 so 10 years no endorsements.
I reckon you could even end up with 3 points and £100 for that offence.
Wait and see I guess, they have 6 months to let you know if your summoned though. Mine came through 5 months and 2 weeks after I got pulled over.
My friend was doing 80 in a 50 and got a 30 day ban with a £1000 fine. he also paid £1000 for a solicitor where as I represented myself.
Be interesting to see what happens but when you find out I don’t mind giving my advice if you need it.
R1Riders said:
I chose to plead guilty and attend court (as I knew I would get a dq)
Ended up with a 14 day ban and £1000 fine.
...
Be interesting to see what happens but when you find out I don’t mind giving my advice if you need it.
Slightly tangential, but I wonder if anyone can satisfy my curiosity as to how the relevant weekly income is determined for an individual who is retired and in receipt of an occupational pension. The Sentencing Council guidance (https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/explanatory-material/magistrates-court/item/fines-and-financial-orders/approach-to-the-assessment-of-fines-2/3-definition-of-relevant-weekly-income/ ), which I assume is authoritative, seems basically to cover only three cases: where someone is employed or self-employed; dependent on state benefits, or; "there is no reliable information", in which case it is deemed to be £440pw. Clearly, someone with an occupational pension could be well in excess of the latter amount but I am not clear that they would be required to declare it. Is this another unfair advantage for the retired (amongst whom I am numbered) along with free bus travel and winter fuel allowances?
To follow up on the original post.
SJPN received through the post around 4 months after the incident.
The charge is driving at 105mph, verified by a follow check carried out "approximately 150 metres behind the vehicle". The original NIP was for "85-100". Allegedly the unmarked police car was overtaken at "103mph" which increased to 105mph during the follow check.
The follow check looks to have been done over the course of 2 miles, where the first mile marker was recorded at 105mph, which reduced down to 83mph by the time they pulled the car over.
Two officer statements were included with the SJPN, where the first lists the mile markers and accused speed, and the second statement says "I could see the speedo was reading somewhere around 100mph".
Not ideal, especially given how brief the speed was in excess of 100mph.
Responding guilty online with no desire to go to court is likely the best option. For "high" earners, is there any merit in not disclosing salary? Or just be as upfront and honest as possible?
"SWIM" recently moved to a new job (in the last month) that is on paper double the salary compared to when caught, but isn't reflective of the associated costs of travel with the new salary. Do they take actually take into account costs in the expenditure sheets provided?
SJPN received through the post around 4 months after the incident.
The charge is driving at 105mph, verified by a follow check carried out "approximately 150 metres behind the vehicle". The original NIP was for "85-100". Allegedly the unmarked police car was overtaken at "103mph" which increased to 105mph during the follow check.
The follow check looks to have been done over the course of 2 miles, where the first mile marker was recorded at 105mph, which reduced down to 83mph by the time they pulled the car over.
Two officer statements were included with the SJPN, where the first lists the mile markers and accused speed, and the second statement says "I could see the speedo was reading somewhere around 100mph".
Not ideal, especially given how brief the speed was in excess of 100mph.
Responding guilty online with no desire to go to court is likely the best option. For "high" earners, is there any merit in not disclosing salary? Or just be as upfront and honest as possible?
"SWIM" recently moved to a new job (in the last month) that is on paper double the salary compared to when caught, but isn't reflective of the associated costs of travel with the new salary. Do they take actually take into account costs in the expenditure sheets provided?
Edited by artois7 on Wednesday 11th March 14:56
You must disclose your salary if you use the makeaplea website. The alternative option is to return everything by post.
Subject to a maximum of £2.5k, the fine is based on income, rather than expenditure or capital.
You will be sentenced on the highest speed alleged. Not an average speed or any other figure. If you plead guilty then set out your basis of plea in very clear terms.
Subject to a maximum of £2.5k, the fine is based on income, rather than expenditure or capital.
You will be sentenced on the highest speed alleged. Not an average speed or any other figure. If you plead guilty then set out your basis of plea in very clear terms.
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