Accident at work. Claim put in. Now employer wants to sack.
Discussion
Hi all, need some advice here.
This advice is for a friend of a friend.
6 months ago the friend gets injured at work where he loses part of his finger. A claim is currently going through.
This guy is back at work but now the employers claim that 3 other employees have said they found a £200 pound tool in his locker...and he had stolen it and they have photographs of it.
He is to attend a final meeting with the employers. He is unsure what he should say or do.
I believe their claim is spurious.
Any advice would be appreciated. Thank you.
This advice is for a friend of a friend.
6 months ago the friend gets injured at work where he loses part of his finger. A claim is currently going through.
This guy is back at work but now the employers claim that 3 other employees have said they found a £200 pound tool in his locker...and he had stolen it and they have photographs of it.
He is to attend a final meeting with the employers. He is unsure what he should say or do.
I believe their claim is spurious.
Any advice would be appreciated. Thank you.
and what are they doing looking in the locker.
Smells fishy, Take a union rep or 3rd party to the meeting and say nothing. but likely it's time to lawyer up. It's the end of them working there regardless because even if innocence is proved and charges dropped how can they carry on?
Smells fishy, Take a union rep or 3rd party to the meeting and say nothing. but likely it's time to lawyer up. It's the end of them working there regardless because even if innocence is proved and charges dropped how can they carry on?
Edited by hornmeister on Monday 28th October 11:43
hornmeister said:
and what are they doing looking in the locker.
Smells fishy, Take a union rep or 3rd party to the meeting and say nothing. but likely it's time to lawyer up. It's the end of them working there regardless because even if innocence is proved and charges dropped how can they carry on?
Yep, even if he fights this one off, they'll just fabricate something else.Smells fishy, Take a union rep or 3rd party to the meeting and say nothing. but likely it's time to lawyer up. It's the end of them working there regardless because even if innocence is proved and charges dropped how can they carry on?
As for this tool, he knows nothing about it, and it wasn't removed from the company premises, and he clearly is not the only person with access to his locker, therefore total BS.
Thank you for your replies. I have sent him a link to this thread.
He thinks he will be sacked on his next meeting due to the way they have treated him so far. Which is unfairly.
Like him I don’t have any legal experience.
Can he claim unfair dismissal? Can he ask for a reference?
I’m sorry for the naive questions.
Apparently, the tool belongs to one of his colleagues. They have a photograph of it in his locker.
He thinks he will be sacked on his next meeting due to the way they have treated him so far. Which is unfairly.
Like him I don’t have any legal experience.
Can he claim unfair dismissal? Can he ask for a reference?
I’m sorry for the naive questions.
Apparently, the tool belongs to one of his colleagues. They have a photograph of it in his locker.
Now. I'm not a lawyer, so don't take this as legal advice. But....
I always thought that theft is, legally, the intent to permanently deprive the owner of a possession. And I also thought that even if that was the intention, no theft has taken place if the item remains on the premises. I'm not saying this friend was planning to take said tool, but if they were "conspiring" or "planning" to take it, that is a different offence.
A simpler explanation is that the tool was put there by someone else to create a case for dismissal. Or perhaps the friend put the tool into his locker in order to secure it after it was left lying around, thereby preventing it's theft?
It all sounds fishy to me though. Almost like the dismissal attempt is revenge for making a claim against the firm?
I always thought that theft is, legally, the intent to permanently deprive the owner of a possession. And I also thought that even if that was the intention, no theft has taken place if the item remains on the premises. I'm not saying this friend was planning to take said tool, but if they were "conspiring" or "planning" to take it, that is a different offence.
A simpler explanation is that the tool was put there by someone else to create a case for dismissal. Or perhaps the friend put the tool into his locker in order to secure it after it was left lying around, thereby preventing it's theft?
It all sounds fishy to me though. Almost like the dismissal attempt is revenge for making a claim against the firm?
I presume he has been given this information in writing? I'd ask for it before attending a meeting.
Then attend the meeting. I think there are two options here. Go with a union rep/find a legal adviser to accompany them. That'll mean they can be called out on any failings of procedure there and then (or whatever the legal adviser determines is the right strategy). Or go to the meeting taking a non-legal witness, take lots of notes and then get legal advice once you know the score.
If it is a dismissal due to gross misconduct (being theft), then if it is a false allegation or an improper process then it can be appealed, taken to tribunal etc afterwards.
Bert
Then attend the meeting. I think there are two options here. Go with a union rep/find a legal adviser to accompany them. That'll mean they can be called out on any failings of procedure there and then (or whatever the legal adviser determines is the right strategy). Or go to the meeting taking a non-legal witness, take lots of notes and then get legal advice once you know the score.
If it is a dismissal due to gross misconduct (being theft), then if it is a false allegation or an improper process then it can be appealed, taken to tribunal etc afterwards.
Bert
harveys said:
Thank you for your replies. I have sent him a link to this thread.
He thinks he will be sacked on his next meeting due to the way they have treated him so far. Which is unfairly.
Like him I don’t have any legal experience.
Can he claim unfair dismissal? Can he ask for a reference?
I’m sorry for the naive questions.
Bit of a brain dump................He thinks he will be sacked on his next meeting due to the way they have treated him so far. Which is unfairly.
Like him I don’t have any legal experience.
Can he claim unfair dismissal? Can he ask for a reference?
I’m sorry for the naive questions.
Been there less than 2 years? If so he has no rights at all.
He'd need proof for unfair dismissal.
He should also try to secure character references from colleagues or former colleagues. I did one for a former colleague who was hounded out of his job unfairly, after seeing it the company settled out of court and paid him around £7'000.
Theft is a criminal offence, not a civil offence, I think if they want to use that to get rid of someone for theft, then the Police need to be involved and investigate for themselves (tell him not to touch this tool), and seeing as the item was still on company property, they'll not be very happy with the employer for wasting their time. I think i'd be insisting on Police involvement, because at the moment all they have is hearsay and suspect "evidence".
Recording all meetings would be a good idea, get a phone app. If you catch them saying anything dodgy then you can use that negotiate terms of leaving, maybe get a nice big payout.
Try recording informal chats with the apparent "witnesses" too. Unfortunately every workplace has those idiots who think they can get promotion by screwing over their colleagues.
References, not a chance, it's done by phone and you have zero way of knowing what they might have said. However it's very rare for companies to contact anyone for a reference these days, the only people who ask for reference contact details are recruitment consultants looking for new leads, this is super annoying for those contacts so go ahead and give them to any and every recruitment consultant, in fact just drop the details in your online CV, screw the b
ds.Don't bother with ACAS, total waste of time, they only exist to help employers do bad things legally.
Edited by lyonspride on Monday 28th October 13:01
harveys said:
Thank you for your replies. I have sent him a link to this thread.
He thinks he will be sacked on his next meeting due to the way they have treated him so far. Which is unfairly.
Like him I don’t have any legal experience.
Can he claim unfair dismissal? Can he ask for a reference?
I’m sorry for the naive questions.
Apparently, the tool belongs to one of his colleagues. They have a photograph of it in his locker.
A link to this thread will do him no good at all, he might need proper advice. He thinks he will be sacked on his next meeting due to the way they have treated him so far. Which is unfairly.
Like him I don’t have any legal experience.
Can he claim unfair dismissal? Can he ask for a reference?
I’m sorry for the naive questions.
Apparently, the tool belongs to one of his colleagues. They have a photograph of it in his locker.
As you’ve already, possibly naively, shown, some amazing assumptions have been made in the thread; just shows what your working with.
kestral said:
All that matter is how long has he worked there and how old he is.
Employers can just dismiss and pay the award for unfair dismissal which is calculated at redundancy rates.
Unless he is dismissed for making a protected disclosure.... At which point there is no limit to the award which can be made nor indeed any minimum time of employment required. He may also of course be dismissed due to a disability (we know not the relevant information) with this being a fabricated cause of action, again this would be a matter where duration of employment is of no relevance. Employers can just dismiss and pay the award for unfair dismissal which is calculated at redundancy rates.
He needs to chat to an employment lawyer really, OP if he wants to contact me I will have a short off the record chat if required.
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