France as a Petrolhead heaven - RIP
Discussion
Just got back from a 2,000 mile stroll through the French countryside. Beautiful as ever. Nice, smooth roads with lots of nice overtaking opportunities if you're in something sporty. Fun. Unfortunately France seems to have caught the speedtrap bug. Badly.
I'm not just talking about a Le Mans week crackdown here, I'm talking about all over the place. We were in various parts of France including the Dordogne, the Ardeche and Champagne regions. Everywhere has speedtraps. Usually an unmarked, dark estate car hides somewhere, you zoom past, they radio the cops down the road. Busted. No warnings. Of course the other motorists warn you by flashing their lights - saved me once or twice. My problem is, some villages don't seem to have 50kmh limit signs but they are certainly enforcing them anyway, so you have to slow RIGHT down everywhere. They even had one, a Focus Estate parked at a motorway service exit, by the armco as you zoom past. Letter in the post for the Frenchies I assume.
I got my collar felt on the Lyon ring road - 150 in a 110 limit - my own fault, didn't spot the 2 Police bikers flying up behind me as I joined. Wanted my license. They let me off in the end though "Monsieur, you 'ave le chance today".
Lots of Gatsos on the autoroutes too. OK, so us Brits don't get a congratulations letter in the post yet, but we will sometime soon. Another ANPR type camera on the A10 motorway read my 'ahem' smaller plate and displayed the registration on a matrix 200m down the road telling me to 'attention votre security' or something similar. Can't think why
Anyway, to anyone thinking of a thrash in France - be careful, the game is now weighted in their favour.
What I do not understand is how the French people seem to just be accepting this. I noticed a significant drop in the amount of crazy driving/speeding among the locals across the nation. Maybe they come here instead
I'm not saying they should drive like crazy, but everyone now slows down in villages etc.
>> Edited by targarama on Sunday 5th June 20:31
I'm not just talking about a Le Mans week crackdown here, I'm talking about all over the place. We were in various parts of France including the Dordogne, the Ardeche and Champagne regions. Everywhere has speedtraps. Usually an unmarked, dark estate car hides somewhere, you zoom past, they radio the cops down the road. Busted. No warnings. Of course the other motorists warn you by flashing their lights - saved me once or twice. My problem is, some villages don't seem to have 50kmh limit signs but they are certainly enforcing them anyway, so you have to slow RIGHT down everywhere. They even had one, a Focus Estate parked at a motorway service exit, by the armco as you zoom past. Letter in the post for the Frenchies I assume.
I got my collar felt on the Lyon ring road - 150 in a 110 limit - my own fault, didn't spot the 2 Police bikers flying up behind me as I joined. Wanted my license. They let me off in the end though "Monsieur, you 'ave le chance today".
Lots of Gatsos on the autoroutes too. OK, so us Brits don't get a congratulations letter in the post yet, but we will sometime soon. Another ANPR type camera on the A10 motorway read my 'ahem' smaller plate and displayed the registration on a matrix 200m down the road telling me to 'attention votre security' or something similar. Can't think why
Anyway, to anyone thinking of a thrash in France - be careful, the game is now weighted in their favour.
What I do not understand is how the French people seem to just be accepting this. I noticed a significant drop in the amount of crazy driving/speeding among the locals across the nation. Maybe they come here instead
I'm not saying they should drive like crazy, but everyone now slows down in villages etc. >> Edited by targarama on Sunday 5th June 20:31
As per most of Europe the 30 limit (or 50kmh) is marked by the ONE red colour Village signpost, the speed limit ends as you pass the final village signpost with the cross line through it.
Much more sensible system than our village gates, numpty line markings, 30 limit signs galore, camera signs galore, lets pay loads of cash to the white lining companies who'll line the councillors pockets with cash type of uk wide system.
Much more sensible system than our village gates, numpty line markings, 30 limit signs galore, camera signs galore, lets pay loads of cash to the white lining companies who'll line the councillors pockets with cash type of uk wide system.
cptsideways said:
As per most of Europe the 30 limit (or 50kmh) is marked by the ONE red colour Village signpost, the speed limit ends as you pass the final village signpost with the cross line through it.
Much more sensible system than our village gates, numpty line markings, 30 limit signs galore, camera signs galore, lets pay loads of cash to the white lining companies who'll line the councillors pockets with cash type of uk wide system.
Thanks, I didn't know it was official although I'd guessed this was the case.
targarama said:
What I do not understand is how the French people seem to just be accepting this. I noticed a significant drop in the amount of crazy driving/speeding among the locals across the nation. Maybe they come here instead
Yep - they're really going for it since Sarkosy had a spell as interior minister. The reason that the french, normally keen to fettle the guillotine when subjected to such repression, are accepting this is that the number of deaths has dropped dramatically, making it hard to argue. They've slowed down so speeders like myself suddenly stand out like the proverbial "pouce douloureux", but of course of the drinkers are still at it.
I don't doubt that the statistics have been massaged; for example, they apparently reduced the period within which the seriously injured have to die for it to count as a road death. Nonetheless, despite motoring magazine moanings about repression, the media battle seems to have been won for the moment. Just be careful out there, it can only get worse. This may be another good result of the "non" - if it delays europlod's introduction then
!!!I hear what's being said but surely it pays to be a good little englander when burbling through Aix-en-Provence or wherever, just the same as in Blighty?
Similarly, in the manner of the F1 driver I saw on TV years ago, extolling the virtues of massive speed where and whenever appropriate/possible, you simply have to assume any other road user is plod and moderate approach/passing speeds accordingly. This applies to any vector involving topographical features which afflict the untrammelled blitzhoon.
The great beauty with French roads - and this was certainly the case last September - is that compared to Darling's torture chamber, you are more than not treated to rolling dollops of wholly vacant, delightfully smooth tarmac and can still sustain speeds that are simply off limits south of the border in Britain.
Having said that, there is clearly something rotten in the kingdome of the gaul and thus, we must keep our powders dry and proceed in the manner of automotive Wild Geese, large cigars firmly chomped and tentatively sampled whilst all the time, primed sten gun cocked and ready to dispatch any interfering Simba.
Hail & Schnell.
Similarly, in the manner of the F1 driver I saw on TV years ago, extolling the virtues of massive speed where and whenever appropriate/possible, you simply have to assume any other road user is plod and moderate approach/passing speeds accordingly. This applies to any vector involving topographical features which afflict the untrammelled blitzhoon.
The great beauty with French roads - and this was certainly the case last September - is that compared to Darling's torture chamber, you are more than not treated to rolling dollops of wholly vacant, delightfully smooth tarmac and can still sustain speeds that are simply off limits south of the border in Britain.
Having said that, there is clearly something rotten in the kingdome of the gaul and thus, we must keep our powders dry and proceed in the manner of automotive Wild Geese, large cigars firmly chomped and tentatively sampled whilst all the time, primed sten gun cocked and ready to dispatch any interfering Simba.
Hail & Schnell.
targarama said:
Unfortunately France seems to have caught the speedtrap bug. Badly.
Yes there are a few.
targarama said:
Everywhere has speedtraps.
I must go to the wrong places, have only seen 2 in the last year.
targarama said:
Lots of Gatsos on the autoroutes too.
A couple around Toulouse and the next ones I know are on the A8 in the Var. A gatso every 400km down here I can live with
targarama said:
What I do not understand is how the French people seem to just be accepting this. I noticed a significant drop in the amount of crazy driving/speeding among the locals across the nation.
Strangely I dont see any change yet. If I drive to the office at 100 - 110kmh (D road) then I still feel like a 'mobile chicane'.
And we can listen to local FM radio, they announce where the speedtraps are going to be for the day.
And DeR, Aix is still 'poseurville'. Nothing like burbling up and down the Cours Mirabeau and making the cafe windows vibrate with the sports exhaust
France has tonnes more smaller roads of excellent quality then we do (think B roads up north).
Stick to them and you'll still make excellent progress, without the hassle
Also the French RN system is so far superior to our own trunk system that progress is made anyway. Higher speeds and overtaking chances mean that daft speeds aren't so necessary when the chance arises.
Stick to them and you'll still make excellent progress, without the hassle
Also the French RN system is so far superior to our own trunk system that progress is made anyway. Higher speeds and overtaking chances mean that daft speeds aren't so necessary when the chance arises.
The big difference with France is that they have the same population as us but have twice the area. Outside big population centres the number of cars per mile are a fraction of ours.
This coupled with their natural love of speed, bikes, sports cars etc means you can hold a very good average speed. They just wave you past and if you're on two wheels they practically drive in the gutter to let you pass.
Whenever I return to the UK from France I'm struck by just how bloody minded the drivers are. Everybody takes it as a personal slight if you have the temerity to overtake.
This coupled with their natural love of speed, bikes, sports cars etc means you can hold a very good average speed. They just wave you past and if you're on two wheels they practically drive in the gutter to let you pass.
Whenever I return to the UK from France I'm struck by just how bloody minded the drivers are. Everybody takes it as a personal slight if you have the temerity to overtake.
D roads in France have always been a joy, but this post taken from the Lotus Seven forum is truely scary.
Heard the following tale from a friend last night, regarding a motoring journo colleague of his travelling back through France a couple of weekends back. I thought it was worth sharing with all of you off to Le Mans later this month, as a word of warning:
- Caught on the Autoroute (near Paris) by a roadside speed trap van at 170 kph (107mph)
- On the spot 750 Euro fine
- 1 month driving ban with immediate effect. As he was on his own he couldn't drive the car away.
- Taken by police to nearest town to get cash, but couldn't raise it (not sure exactly why - overdrawn bank balance perhaps) so held in the police cells overnight until he could sort out funds next day.
- Then had to arrange someone from the UK to come and fetch the car (a press demonstrator), and sort out getting himself back home without a car.
Heard the following tale from a friend last night, regarding a motoring journo colleague of his travelling back through France a couple of weekends back. I thought it was worth sharing with all of you off to Le Mans later this month, as a word of warning:
- Caught on the Autoroute (near Paris) by a roadside speed trap van at 170 kph (107mph)
- On the spot 750 Euro fine
- 1 month driving ban with immediate effect. As he was on his own he couldn't drive the car away.
- Taken by police to nearest town to get cash, but couldn't raise it (not sure exactly why - overdrawn bank balance perhaps) so held in the police cells overnight until he could sort out funds next day.
- Then had to arrange someone from the UK to come and fetch the car (a press demonstrator), and sort out getting himself back home without a car.
Le TVR is right that cameras and traps probably haven't made it to all corners of France yet, but also note Nel's comments earlier in this thread. There is most definitely a big effort going on, not just a short-term crackdown.
All regular French visitors know about the usual traps on the A26 before the last toll Northbound etc., and yes there are Gatsos around Paris. But it is much worse than that.
- Last week I saw at least 3 separate gantry type traps over the A10 towards Orleans (one of which was a warning, not a ticket issuer - displays your registration). These were ANPR and worked far too well for my liking.
- I saw a Tallivan (OK, they use estate cars instead) on the same Autoroute further South too.
- I spotted a trap on the way into a village in the Dordogne last Monday.
- I saw 1 trap on the way into Mendes (near the Lot valley) off the Autoroute last Wednesday.
- I saw another hidden Tallivan stylee trap in a village near Pont D-Arc in the Ardeche region on Thursday.
- I very nearly lost my license on Friday near Lyon (it was taken off me and given back)
- I had to take serious evasive action to avoid a serious thrubbing by the Gendarmes on Saturday morning on a peaceful N road as others describe there to be plenty of where it is safer to 'enjoy motoring'. My sin? Just passed 2 shedpullers and a Gendarme decided to jump out into the road in front of me and stop me. This was an empty road with nothing but fields and one tree/hedge combo in sight (with 2 bike cops crouching behind it).
As you see, I covered quite a few regions of France this past week. I'm a very cautious driver with a clean license and never had a UK point in my life.
Be careful out there.
>> Edited by targarama on Monday 6th June 13:02
All regular French visitors know about the usual traps on the A26 before the last toll Northbound etc., and yes there are Gatsos around Paris. But it is much worse than that.
- Last week I saw at least 3 separate gantry type traps over the A10 towards Orleans (one of which was a warning, not a ticket issuer - displays your registration). These were ANPR and worked far too well for my liking.
- I saw a Tallivan (OK, they use estate cars instead) on the same Autoroute further South too.
- I spotted a trap on the way into a village in the Dordogne last Monday.
- I saw 1 trap on the way into Mendes (near the Lot valley) off the Autoroute last Wednesday.
- I saw another hidden Tallivan stylee trap in a village near Pont D-Arc in the Ardeche region on Thursday.
- I very nearly lost my license on Friday near Lyon (it was taken off me and given back)
- I had to take serious evasive action to avoid a serious thrubbing by the Gendarmes on Saturday morning on a peaceful N road as others describe there to be plenty of where it is safer to 'enjoy motoring'. My sin? Just passed 2 shedpullers and a Gendarme decided to jump out into the road in front of me and stop me. This was an empty road with nothing but fields and one tree/hedge combo in sight (with 2 bike cops crouching behind it).
As you see, I covered quite a few regions of France this past week. I'm a very cautious driver with a clean license and never had a UK point in my life.
Be careful out there.
>> Edited by targarama on Monday 6th June 13:02
james_j said:
Whenever I return to the UK from France I'm struck by just how bloody minded the drivers are. Everybody takes it as a personal slight if you have the temerity to overtake.
That's my experience too. There's a lot of mealy-mouth mentality in the UK.
you dont even need to get to the uk. getting closer and closer to calais the driving gets worse and worse and you can guarantee the drivers are all numpty brits. it's embarrasing.
Even if a few scameras have appeared the other side of the channel, it's still nothing like as bad as it is here. At least you get the opportunity to get caught. Three weeks ago a friend picked up a Range Rover in Knightsbridge which he was taking to the South of France. He left Knighsbridge just after lunchtime and it took the same length of time to cover the 60 miles to the Channel Tunnel as it took to get from the French end of the tunnel to Lyon, over 10 times the distance!
As an ex-pat who has lived in France for 13 years, he reckons that driving in this country gets worse every time he comes over. Whenever I drive over there, I'm forced to agree with him!
As an ex-pat who has lived in France for 13 years, he reckons that driving in this country gets worse every time he comes over. Whenever I drive over there, I'm forced to agree with him!
Sorry to spoil the fun but couldnt agree with targaramma more.
I have a small holiday home in the Gers, South of Agen and in the middle of nowhere. For years Farnce has been an automotive dream. But no longer.
I too have just come back from the South and have seen more cameras than ever before. The level of police activity on the RN20 was awesome. OK so you get a lot of help from cars coming the other way, but Radar traps in a 30KPH (not MPH) limit had to be believed. And they were stopping anyone who exceeded that.
Frightened me.
Roger
I have a small holiday home in the Gers, South of Agen and in the middle of nowhere. For years Farnce has been an automotive dream. But no longer.
I too have just come back from the South and have seen more cameras than ever before. The level of police activity on the RN20 was awesome. OK so you get a lot of help from cars coming the other way, but Radar traps in a 30KPH (not MPH) limit had to be believed. And they were stopping anyone who exceeded that.
Frightened me.
Roger
Just spent two weeks based south of Toulouse - and it's the first time that I've ever driven on the 'wrong' side of the road.
I was nervous beforehand, cos I had the wife and kids with me in the car but I have to say that driving in France was brilliant, especially off the peages.
The roads were generally in great condition with little traffic and whilst the French drivers may be keen to fill any gaps, I had no trouble over there whatsoever.
Can't wait to take the bike sometime soon.
Didn't see any cameras but my father-in-law picked up a parking ticket for 11 euros.
I was nervous beforehand, cos I had the wife and kids with me in the car but I have to say that driving in France was brilliant, especially off the peages.
The roads were generally in great condition with little traffic and whilst the French drivers may be keen to fill any gaps, I had no trouble over there whatsoever.
Can't wait to take the bike sometime soon.
Didn't see any cameras but my father-in-law picked up a parking ticket for 11 euros.
Davel said:
Just spent two weeks based south of Toulouse - and it's the first time that I've ever driven on the 'wrong' side of the road.
I was nervous beforehand, cos I had the wife and kids with me in the car but I have to say that driving in France was brilliant, especially off the peages.
The roads were generally in great condition with little traffic and whilst the French drivers may be keen to fill any gaps, I had no trouble over there whatsoever.
Can't wait to take the bike sometime soon.
Didn't see any cameras but my father-in-law picked up a parking ticket for 11 euros.
When I was younger and intended going to the continent in my car for the first time, a friend told me that they drive on the wrong side of the road and insisted this was the truth. I tried driving on the wrong side of the road from Watford to St. Albans to see what it was like. Christ, it was bloody dangerous so I stayed at home!
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