Random breath tests
Discussion
Cheshire police have been setting up roadside stops to do random breath tests over the festive period which I know isn’t new, but I always thought they had to have suspicion you were drinking in order to breathalyse you.
What reason do they give, has the law changed or was I always wrong?
What reason do they give, has the law changed or was I always wrong?
alistair1234 said:
Cheshire police have been setting up roadside stops to do random breath tests over the festive period which I know isn’t new, but I always thought they had to have suspicion you were drinking in order to breathalyse you.
What reason do they give, has the law changed or was I always wrong?
Surely the stop would be to check documents and then suspicion would arise from that interaction?What reason do they give, has the law changed or was I always wrong?
It helps to think of the process in two separate parts - The legal Power to stop a vehicle and then the Power to require a specimen of breath;
The Police do not need any suspicion to stop a vehicle being used on a road - they can legitimately stop vehicles at random.
The Police do need the grounds above to require a specimen of breath, but they can be formed by the manner of driving when you are pulled-in (for example), from the smell in your car, on your breath, dilated pupils, asking "Have you had a drink at all?" or any other reason.
It's perfectly normal for a driver to be pulled-in to one of these locations, for the Officer to form no opinion of legal grounds and then send the driver on their way - though clearly the intention is to conduct as many tests as possible.
There is no doubt this kind of effort reaps results (inc uninsured drivers, unlicensed drivers, people wanted for criminal offences etc) and if each driver tells a few friends that the Police are looking for Drink / Drug drivers, there's a wider deterrent too.
The Police do not need any suspicion to stop a vehicle being used on a road - they can legitimately stop vehicles at random.
The Police do need the grounds above to require a specimen of breath, but they can be formed by the manner of driving when you are pulled-in (for example), from the smell in your car, on your breath, dilated pupils, asking "Have you had a drink at all?" or any other reason.
It's perfectly normal for a driver to be pulled-in to one of these locations, for the Officer to form no opinion of legal grounds and then send the driver on their way - though clearly the intention is to conduct as many tests as possible.
There is no doubt this kind of effort reaps results (inc uninsured drivers, unlicensed drivers, people wanted for criminal offences etc) and if each driver tells a few friends that the Police are looking for Drink / Drug drivers, there's a wider deterrent too.
So would be the situation if you were stopped at one of these, hadn't had a drop and no suggestion that you had but officer asked would you mind giving a breath test whilst you were there, had you'd "yes I do mind so no" could that be taken as refusal to provide a breath test and then a more serious offence?
Marcellus said:
So would be the situation if you were stopped at one of these, hadn't had a drop and no suggestion that you had but officer asked would you mind giving a breath test whilst you were there, had you'd "yes I do mind so no" could that be taken as refusal to provide a breath test and then a more serious offence?
That would be just bloody stupid. Do the test and get on with your day.Marcellus said:
So would be the situation if you were stopped at one of these, hadn't had a drop and no suggestion that you had but officer asked would you mind giving a breath test whilst you were there, had you'd "yes I do mind so no" could that be taken as refusal to provide a breath test and then a more serious offence?
If you haven't had a drink why would you refuse? wolfie1978 said:
Marcellus said:
So would be the situation if you were stopped at one of these, hadn't had a drop and no suggestion that you had but officer asked would you mind giving a breath test whilst you were there, had you'd "yes I do mind so no" could that be taken as refusal to provide a breath test and then a more serious offence?
If you haven't had a drink why would you refuse? Marcellus said:
So would be the situation if you were stopped at one of these, hadn't had a drop and no suggestion that you had but officer asked would you mind giving a breath test whilst you were there, had you'd "yes I do mind so no" could that be taken as refusal to provide a breath test and then a more serious offence?
Refusing to provide a breath test at the road side, in my understanding, though I haven't been involved in traffic law for some years, does not constitute the absolute offence of failing to provide however it may well lead to the Officer building his (her) suspicion that you are driving whilst unfit through drink or drugs for which you may then be arrested. Once you arrive at the Police Station a requirement is then made at the Police Station for you to provide a sample of breath on a much more sophisticated analysis machine, if you refuse at the Police Station without reasonable excuse (Of which there are very few) then you get charged with fail to provide and your off to court probably for a severe sentence.
My experience is that Courts punish people more harshly who fail to provide a breath sample than those who have blown over the limit in terms of fine and ban length.
Monkeylegend said:
wolfie1978 said:
Marcellus said:
So would be the situation if you were stopped at one of these, hadn't had a drop and no suggestion that you had but officer asked would you mind giving a breath test whilst you were there, had you'd "yes I do mind so no" could that be taken as refusal to provide a breath test and then a more serious offence?
If you haven't had a drink why would you refuse? Summons for refusal if no grounds to suspect alcohol. If grounds to suspect alcohol, arrest.
Refusing a lawful request is an offence.
Sheepshanks said:
I (in Cheshire) saw the Police stopping people a few days ago by diverting a few cars at a time into a layby. Can you request to be allowed to continue without stopping?
You can request it, they don't have to grant that request though. If you are bursting for the loo and end up soiling yourself you may find they aren't keen on searching you 😀I’m not suggesting I would, but there are those who would take the whole; “you’ve no reason to suspect me of a crime so why have you stopped me. “ and then if they did stop take the “you’ve no reason to suspect I’ve had anything to drink so why are you requiring a breath test from me?” reasoning seriously.
XCP said:
Monkeylegend said:
wolfie1978 said:
Marcellus said:
So would be the situation if you were stopped at one of these, hadn't had a drop and no suggestion that you had but officer asked would you mind giving a breath test whilst you were there, had you'd "yes I do mind so no" could that be taken as refusal to provide a breath test and then a more serious offence?
If you haven't had a drink why would you refuse? Summons for refusal if no grounds to suspect alcohol. If grounds to suspect alcohol, arrest.
Refusing a lawful request is an offence.
Jamescrs said:
Refusing to provide a breath test at the road side, in my understanding, though I haven't been involved in traffic law for some years, does not constitute the absolute offence of failing to provide however it may well lead to the Officer building his (her) suspicion that you are driving whilst unfit through drink or drugs for which you may then be arrested.
Once you arrive at the Police Station a requirement is then made at the Police Station for you to provide a sample of breath on a much more sophisticated analysis machine, if you refuse at the Police Station without reasonable excuse (Of which there are very few) then you get charged with fail to provide and your off to court probably for a severe sentence.
Not quite. Once you arrive at the Police Station a requirement is then made at the Police Station for you to provide a sample of breath on a much more sophisticated analysis machine, if you refuse at the Police Station without reasonable excuse (Of which there are very few) then you get charged with fail to provide and your off to court probably for a severe sentence.
Failing to cooperate with a preliminary breath test is an offence in its own right (assuming the officer has lawful grounds for requiring it) - but a fairly minor one which is punishable by points and a fine rather than a driving ban. See Road Traffic Act section 6.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/sectio...
Commuting it will also see you arrested, taken down to the police station and required to take an evidential test on the more sophisticated machine. Refusing *that* test is a more serious offence which carries a mandatory ban and (at least in theory) a possible jail sentence.
In practice I believe that refusing the preliminary test is rarely charged because after you commit it you will either refuse the evidential test/blow over the limit at the station (in which case you are charged with the more serious offence and the roadside test becomes a minor detail) or you'll blow negative at the station (in which case being arrested and spending your evening in the station when you could just have blown at the roadside is seen as punishment enough for your intransigence).
I was pulled over on the A2 about 10 years back. About 10 in the morning, I had just joined it from the M25.
‘You were going a bit fast there, sir’
‘ just keeping up with the flow of traffic’
‘ as you have committed a moving traffic offence, I am entitled to breathalyse you’
‘ I have had nothing to drink’
‘Fine, as I breathalyse you other drivers will be watching and will take note’
‘Ok, that’s a zero. Off you go - accelerate in the hard shoulder before you join the road, and watch your speed’.
No booking for speeding, I am not fully convinced that I was above 75 true speed.
‘You were going a bit fast there, sir’
‘ just keeping up with the flow of traffic’
‘ as you have committed a moving traffic offence, I am entitled to breathalyse you’
‘ I have had nothing to drink’
‘Fine, as I breathalyse you other drivers will be watching and will take note’
‘Ok, that’s a zero. Off you go - accelerate in the hard shoulder before you join the road, and watch your speed’.
No booking for speeding, I am not fully convinced that I was above 75 true speed.
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