Police and speeding
Discussion
Got home last night to find a speeding ticket notice from Kent police.
Mrs W was driving over the speed limit and a speed camera had got her. Whilst it is no defence, it was a dual carriageway at 0800 on a bank holiday Monday with no other traffic on the road and she was going at less than 50 miles an hour.
Whilst I can accept that she broke the law, and therefore should accept the punishment, what frustrates me is the when my car was crunched by another car and needed expensive repairs, the police did feck all and the perpetrator got away with it. And they made me waste an hour and a half to go to a main police station (because they closed the local one) and present my vehicle documents - despite being the victim.
Moreover, when we had a load of horsey stuff stolen, they couldn't care less, and it was only when I forced the issue that they took it down as a crime, and made no attempt to solve the crime.
[b] This is why people are hacked off with the police.
Mrs W was driving over the speed limit and a speed camera had got her. Whilst it is no defence, it was a dual carriageway at 0800 on a bank holiday Monday with no other traffic on the road and she was going at less than 50 miles an hour.
Whilst I can accept that she broke the law, and therefore should accept the punishment, what frustrates me is the when my car was crunched by another car and needed expensive repairs, the police did feck all and the perpetrator got away with it. And they made me waste an hour and a half to go to a main police station (because they closed the local one) and present my vehicle documents - despite being the victim.
Moreover, when we had a load of horsey stuff stolen, they couldn't care less, and it was only when I forced the issue that they took it down as a crime, and made no attempt to solve the crime.
[b] This is why people are hacked off with the police.
Jez W said:
Got home last night to find a speeding ticket notice from Kent police.
Mrs W was driving over the speed limit and a speed camera had got her. Whilst it is no defence, it was a dual carriageway at 0800 on a bank holiday Monday with no other traffic on the road and she was going at less than 50 miles an hour.
Whilst I can accept that she broke the law, and therefore should accept the punishment, what frustrates me is the when my car was crunched by another car and needed expensive repairs, the police did feck all and the perpetrator got away with it. And they made me waste an hour and a half to go to a main police station (because they closed the local one) and present my vehicle documents - despite being the victim.
Moreover, when we had a load of horsey stuff stolen, they couldn't care less, and it was only when I forced the issue that they took it down as a crime, and made no attempt to solve the crime.
This is why people are hacked off with the police.
Welcome to reality. The police have become a business like any other so they only do what is profitable.
Jez W said:
Got home last night to find a speeding ticket notice from Kent police.
Mrs W was driving over the speed limit and a speed camera had got her. Whilst it is no defence, it was a dual carriageway at 0800 on a bank holiday Monday with no other traffic on the road and she was going at less than 50 miles an hour.
Whilst I can accept that she broke the law, and therefore should accept the punishment, what frustrates me is the when my car was crunched by another car and needed expensive repairs, the police did feck all and the perpetrator got away with it. And they made me waste an hour and a half to go to a main police station (because they closed the local one) and present my vehicle documents - despite being the victim.
Moreover, when we had a load of horsey stuff stolen, they couldn't care less, and it was only when I forced the issue that they took it down as a crime, and made no attempt to solve the crime.
This is why people are hacked off with the police.
Was there a temporary speed limit on the road at the time?
Was it due to raod works?
Were the road works actually happening on a Bank Holiday?
If not - you have a good defense - check out the plod/law bit of this site
Steve
We probably got caught this morning. NSL road with VERY good visability (ie about 3 mile straight). Numpty driver thinks it is a 40mph zone so we pull out and safely overtake - just as we are level with the numpty we spot a scamera van! Now - continue the manouver? OR brake to 60mph (with a car now following our overtake)????? Of course we continue, but now will have probably been caught!
:Get Carter said:
Was there a temporary speed limit on the road at the time?
Was it due to raod works?
Were the road works actually happening on a Bank Holiday?
If not - you have a good defense - check out the plod/law bit of this site
er...nope it is not a good defense.....I know as I went to court for doing 56 on a dual carraigeway 8 a.m. on a Sunday only to find out later when the NIP arrived there was a temporary 40 on this stretch of road. I argued the case and lost!
Request the photo, my Mrs got a NIP for 46 in a 30, when the photo arrived is shows 40 not 46!!
This is still ongoing so can't tell you if whe will get off.......
Jez W said:
what frustrates me is the when my car was crunched by another car and needed expensive repairs, the police did feck all and the perpetrator got away with it.
Because it was harder to solve than issuing a speeding ticket, and will cost money rather than make money.
If there were cameras that could automatically detect cannabis users and fine them £60, do you think they'd have legalised it?
vetteheadracer said:
er...nope it is not a good defense.....I know as I went to court for doing 56 on a dual carraigeway 8 a.m. on a Sunday only to find out later when the NIP arrived there was a temporary 40 on this stretch of road. I argued the case and lost!
I assume the original NIP was the usual 3/60 ? what was the outcome of the court case if you mind me asking ?
[quote]We probably got caught this morning. NSL road with VERY good visability (ie about 3 mile straight). Numpty driver thinks it is a 40mph zone so we pull out and safely overtake - just as we are level with the numpty we spot a scamera van! Now - continue the manouver? OR brake to 60mph (with a car now following our overtake)????? Of course we continue, but now will have probably been caught![/quote]
Nothing for it got to get on the brakes and dive for cover. It's only what can be expected for "safety camera's" sake.
Nothing for it got to get on the brakes and dive for cover. It's only what can be expected for "safety camera's" sake.
The labia government is harassing the law abiding middle classes with their Scamera revenue raising policy. It is a fact that most people on most journeys break the speed limit because they are using good judgement. It is also a fact that most speed traps are where the limit is the most stupid so they can reap the maximum revenue.
The inevitable long term effect is that the police are being brought into disrepute with precisely the law abiding citizens who they traditionally rely on for support. Unless policy is changed soon this must ultimately end in tears as the police can only do their job with the will of the people and they are losing that rapidly.
The inevitable long term effect is that the police are being brought into disrepute with precisely the law abiding citizens who they traditionally rely on for support. Unless policy is changed soon this must ultimately end in tears as the police can only do their job with the will of the people and they are losing that rapidly.
Jez - you do have my sympathy. My wife was caught on a dual carriageway - doing 70 mph. Yes, they'd just reduced it to a 60 mph limit.
Your post worries me, becuase it is us BiBs who invariably bear the brunt of this frustration. My lodger is a Trafpol and he hates the cameras as much as the next bloke. I would just like point out it is not "the Police" who are responsible for these tickets, but the so-called "Safety Camera Partnerships" who are accountable to nobody.
Sorry to hear you had a bad experience of Kent Police. They generally have quite a good reputation (I'm not a Kent Officer). Do ask for the pictures though. It costs them money to send them out, and anything that reduces their profit has to be worthwhile.
Your post worries me, becuase it is us BiBs who invariably bear the brunt of this frustration. My lodger is a Trafpol and he hates the cameras as much as the next bloke. I would just like point out it is not "the Police" who are responsible for these tickets, but the so-called "Safety Camera Partnerships" who are accountable to nobody.
Sorry to hear you had a bad experience of Kent Police. They generally have quite a good reputation (I'm not a Kent Officer). Do ask for the pictures though. It costs them money to send them out, and anything that reduces their profit has to be worthwhile.
xxplod said:
My lodger is a Trafpol and he hates the cameras as much as the next bloke. I would just like point out it is not "the Police" who are responsible for these tickets, but the so-called "Safety Camera Partnerships" who are accountable to nobody.
Is that really true, for what reason, is it because they're doing him out of his job?
Say u don't know who was driving - worked for me and I was doing 82 in a temporary 50 on a DC. No cones no workmen nothing. The scammers were just out revenue collecting on a Sunday afternoon! I bet most drivers rolled over and took it up the arse that day.
Mass civil disobedince will crack the bastards.
Mass civil disobedince will crack the bastards.
I can't help but be cynical when the police try to distance themselves from the camera partnerships. The partnerships can only set up and exist with the support of the Police. In Dorset the partnership are hiding behind the official secrets act to prevent them disclosing the threshold that drivers are offered awareness training or prosecution, they could only do this with the direct support of the Chief Constable. Individual policemen are quite prepared to earn lots of overtime operating the vans knowing quite well that if they were in patrol cars they wouldn't prosecute at the same thresholds. The partnerships and Police have one section of the public missing from their cosy little set ups and that is the motorist.
I think that some officers are in favour of the SCPs, maybe out of genuine opinion or because of the overtime, and some are, like the average motorist, dead-set against them. Then there are the middle ground, who can see the benefits but maybe aren't convinced about the level of resource, or the ever-reducing tolerances, or the PR impact.
OK, no rocket-science there.
I also think that there is "political" pressure on senior officers to support SCPs, as without the Police being fully behind them, it would soon become (even more) evident that they are there for revenue.
Again, pretty logical conclusions.
What I think is unconscionable, and a complete betrayal of their role as public servants, is the way many police still spout the "party line" about "Speed Kills", completely disregarding all the other factors contributing to RTAs, because these aren't part of the grand plan, aren't EASY to enforce, and don't make a nice soundbite.
Why? Well I've got news for you - real life isn't a nice easy soundbite - it is complex and multi-faceted, in all of it's aspects. And the police aren't there to prosecute the "easy" crimes, they're there to IMPROVE society. And politics has NO place in policing and law enforcement (OK, that seems to be an unpopular view in Westminster, but...)
OK, no rocket-science there.
I also think that there is "political" pressure on senior officers to support SCPs, as without the Police being fully behind them, it would soon become (even more) evident that they are there for revenue.
Again, pretty logical conclusions.
What I think is unconscionable, and a complete betrayal of their role as public servants, is the way many police still spout the "party line" about "Speed Kills", completely disregarding all the other factors contributing to RTAs, because these aren't part of the grand plan, aren't EASY to enforce, and don't make a nice soundbite.
Why? Well I've got news for you - real life isn't a nice easy soundbite - it is complex and multi-faceted, in all of it's aspects. And the police aren't there to prosecute the "easy" crimes, they're there to IMPROVE society. And politics has NO place in policing and law enforcement (OK, that seems to be an unpopular view in Westminster, but...)
xxplod said:
Your post worries me, becuase it is us BiBs who invariably bear the brunt of this frustration. My lodger is a Trafpol and he hates the cameras as much as the next bloke. I would just like point out it is not "the Police" who are responsible for these tickets, but the so-called "Safety Camera Partnerships" who are accountable to nobody.
Sorry to hear you had a bad experience of Kent Police. They generally have quite a good reputation (I'm not a Kent Officer). Do ask for the pictures though. It costs them money to send them out, and anything that reduces their profit has to be worthwhile.
I think you are right, and if anything the situation is getting worse. I am a generally law abiding conservative type whose natural instinct is to support the police etc. I am becoming less supportive of the police as a result of all of this. I would also comment that this is becoming more widespread. My local MP is a "knight of the shires" Conservative type and one of his key campaign talks (based on extensive letters from disgruntled constituents) was about the increasing failures of kent police. When people like him (and his constituents) start attacking the police and not, for the sake of emphasis, the Home Office/Labour party then you should know that trouble is brewing.
>> Edited by Jez W on Wednesday 8th June 19:31
>> Edited by Jez W on Wednesday 8th June 19:32
xxplod said:
Your post worries me, becuase it is us BiBs who invariably bear the brunt of this frustration. My lodger is a Trafpol and he hates the cameras as much as the next bloke. I would just like point out it is not "the Police" who are responsible for these tickets, but the so-called "Safety Camera Partnerships" who are accountable to nobody.
Whilst I have every sympathy with xxplod's points above and in his post generally there is one point of order.
Why are these outfits called partnerships?
My own patch for example the scamps comprises a partnership between
the four local highway authorities of
the Borough of Telford & Wrekin
Herefordshire Council
Shropshire County Council
Worcestershire County Council
the Highways Agency
the six NHS Primary Care Trusts who cover the region
Herefordshire PCT
Redditch & Bromsgrove PCT
Shropshire County PCT
South Worcestershire PCT
Telford & Wrekin PCT
Wyre Forest PCT
West Mercia Constabulary
AND FINALLY
West Mercia Magistrates’ Courts Service
The picture is the same elsewhere. In my last place, Derbyshire, the road side scamp signs even say "Police enforcement cameras"
Is it any wonder that motorists think as they do about bib?
In these circumstances it is very difficult to adopt the Pontius Pilate washing of the hands scenario.
Even though we do know the operational reality is very much as xxplod has described and we all complain about.
/rant
>> Edited by Flat in Fifth on Thursday 9th June 10:43
Quick question: WHY are the magistrates courts part of the partnership?!? Surely that's a blatent conflict of interest!!!
SCP raises revenue through successful speeding prosections, magistrates are the ones who make a judgement if the case goes to court.
Unless...am i right in thinking that if it goes to court the SCP gets nothing? But even then, the magistrates could consider that your temerity in excercising your civil rights has cost "their" SCP the £60 FPN. So they may not be exactly open-minded and unbiased about it...
SCP raises revenue through successful speeding prosections, magistrates are the ones who make a judgement if the case goes to court.
Unless...am i right in thinking that if it goes to court the SCP gets nothing? But even then, the magistrates could consider that your temerity in excercising your civil rights has cost "their" SCP the £60 FPN. So they may not be exactly open-minded and unbiased about it...
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