I witnessed an RTA this morning...
Discussion
London traffic, 7:40am - Car turning right (unusual U turn), scooter following - IMHO riding too close, in driver's blind spot. Car turns, scooter into the side. Luckily fairly low speed, protective clothing = no serious injuries.
I waited about for the police to arrive (only 5 mins) who moved vehicles to free up traffic flow before traffic division arrived. They have my name address in case they need a statement.
Question to BIB is:
I took a picture of the accident scene before any vehicles were moved - would it be of any use to the police to have the picture? It's taken from a camera phone but it's a 1 megapixal camera so reasonable quality.
I waited about for the police to arrive (only 5 mins) who moved vehicles to free up traffic flow before traffic division arrived. They have my name address in case they need a statement.
Question to BIB is:
I took a picture of the accident scene before any vehicles were moved - would it be of any use to the police to have the picture? It's taken from a camera phone but it's a 1 megapixal camera so reasonable quality.
onedsla said:
Question to BIB is:
I took a picture of the accident scene before any vehicles were moved - would it be of any use to the police to have the picture? It's taken from a camera phone but it's a 1 megapixal camera so reasonable quality.
Probably of more use to the insurers than the police...
miniandy said:
No the car would be at fault as it turned into the path of the scooter. Believe it or not.
Assuming the scooter was following the car, and that the car was indicating its intention to turn right, and that the manouvre was legal (ie right turns were not prohibited at that junction), then the scooter must have been at fault for driving without due care and attention.
If any of the above was not the case, then it could indeed be the car's fault.
H
My old Granada had those flat side morrors, and a terrible blind spot, but those 99p stick on blind spot eliminators worked just fine once you got used to them.
Scooter driver may not be aware that cars have blind spots unless he is a car driver himself, looks like the car driver was to blame here, good job no serious injuries.
Surprising how many scotorist I see zip around with helmet on, and T shirt and jeans, road rash is a painfull activity when you get it.
Scooter driver may not be aware that cars have blind spots unless he is a car driver himself, looks like the car driver was to blame here, good job no serious injuries.
Surprising how many scotorist I see zip around with helmet on, and T shirt and jeans, road rash is a painfull activity when you get it.
Even with indicators on, unless you claim that the scooter was travelling so fast that it ought not to have been able to impact you in that turn (and we are talking about a scooter here(, or the scooter crossed a solid white line to get to wehre the accident happened, went the wrong side of a bollard, or something equally illegal, then the party turning is at fault.
If BIB are called the car driver is likely to get DWDCA.
Insurance co will not even argue the payout unless you have something serious to alledge against the scooter.
If BIB are called the car driver is likely to get DWDCA.
Insurance co will not even argue the payout unless you have something serious to alledge against the scooter.
Quick question (hypothetic <- if thats how you spell it)
1) If I'm driving along and indicate to turn right (all legal). I give way to oncoming traffic check mirrors etc start to make turn and a scooter behind me doesn't see me brake or the indication before that and rides into the back of me. Is he at fault?
2) Same as above except at the last moment scooter notices me and chooses to break right and go down the right hand side thus hitting the drivers side as I turn. Who is at fault?
1) If I'm driving along and indicate to turn right (all legal). I give way to oncoming traffic check mirrors etc start to make turn and a scooter behind me doesn't see me brake or the indication before that and rides into the back of me. Is he at fault?
2) Same as above except at the last moment scooter notices me and chooses to break right and go down the right hand side thus hitting the drivers side as I turn. Who is at fault?
The principle is quite simple.
If he runs into the back of you then he is at fault. Cannot stop in the distance he can see to be safe.
If he swerves as he is about to run into the back of you and you collect him then he is still at fault. Same reason.
If he is riding in a straight line (no swerve) hence he would not have hit you had you not turned, then you are at fault.
Court of Appeal decision mentioned on another forum may now affect the views above - level of damages may possibly take into account that he should forsee riding (eg) against the flow in the other lane might cause you problems. Still your fault but your insurance only pays for (say) half the damages. No help to you (NCB lost, rates rise) or him (half scooter fixed) but the insurance company is happy, so look on the bright side.
If he runs into the back of you then he is at fault. Cannot stop in the distance he can see to be safe.
If he swerves as he is about to run into the back of you and you collect him then he is still at fault. Same reason.
If he is riding in a straight line (no swerve) hence he would not have hit you had you not turned, then you are at fault.
Court of Appeal decision mentioned on another forum may now affect the views above - level of damages may possibly take into account that he should forsee riding (eg) against the flow in the other lane might cause you problems. Still your fault but your insurance only pays for (say) half the damages. No help to you (NCB lost, rates rise) or him (half scooter fixed) but the insurance company is happy, so look on the bright side.
In this case I note that reference is made to an unusual U turn, but generally speaking is it not considered unwise to overtake at or near to a road junction, especially one on the right?
Apart from anything else this one sounds like some lack of anticipation/defensive riding by the scooterist.
I suspect a lot of shunts arise simply from people diving to situations a bit too readily, instead of hanging back a bit and watching how things are shaping up in front.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
>> Edited by TripleS on Sunday 12th June 09:51
Apart from anything else this one sounds like some lack of anticipation/defensive riding by the scooterist.
I suspect a lot of shunts arise simply from people diving to situations a bit too readily, instead of hanging back a bit and watching how things are shaping up in front.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
>> Edited by TripleS on Sunday 12th June 09:51
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