Insurance terms re: storm damage
Discussion
Dear insurance and legal experts,
I'd appreciate some advice on this - a nice car of mine was unfortunately hit by ridge tiles from my own house that blew off in the storm and significantly damaged. I was away for the weekend so discovered it yesterday. I have a good relationship with the broker with a number of vehicles including race car insured with them and have never made a claim before. However, this is not going to be something I can pay for myself.
The underwriter has requested/tried to coerce me into using what I consider to be a repairer potentially incapable of doing a good job on the vehicle. I have also been told that this will go down as a fault claim as no 3rd party to claim off (I get this, although I'd have thought storm damage when not present/vehicle not moving might be in a different category, but then I'm not an expert on insurance).
However, I wish to use my chosen repairer. I understand that this is my right but when I spoke with the claims team they were clearly not happy with this and made a number of thinly veiled threats including lack of a courtesy car (not an issue as isn't my main car) but more importantly that they would charge me the difference in labour rates between their chosen repairer (presumably artificially low due to their "arrangements" with the group in question) and when I checked the policy document one of the clauses which is somewhat nebulous states this:
"If our approved repairer has accepted instructions to act, there is no need to obtain an estimate. If your own chosen repairer is used, you must obtain an estimate for the cost of the repairs and send it to us immediately. We will at our option inspect the damage to your vehicle before repairs are authorised. We will not be responsible for the cost of any new parts or accessories ordered, or repairs carried out, without our agreement. If we think the repair estimate is unreasonable, we may choose one of the following options; negotiate a lower estimate, pay you the cash equivalent of the price we consider reasonable or move your vehicle to another repairer. We have the right to move your vehicle to a safe storage place without asking you."
They also state: "f we choose, we may arrange for the repairer to use suitable (possibly recycled) parts and accessories that are made by a company other than the manufacturer of your vehicle." The car has done less than 4k miles and is about 18 months old.
Am I bound by these terms including their issue around labour rates.....? I have already made it clear to the broker that I am not happy at this stage and if they want to promote their business in the motorsport world that I am part of then they should not sell policies with underwriters who behave like this. F
Thanks for any help guys - really gutted to see the damage.
Steve
I'd appreciate some advice on this - a nice car of mine was unfortunately hit by ridge tiles from my own house that blew off in the storm and significantly damaged. I was away for the weekend so discovered it yesterday. I have a good relationship with the broker with a number of vehicles including race car insured with them and have never made a claim before. However, this is not going to be something I can pay for myself.
The underwriter has requested/tried to coerce me into using what I consider to be a repairer potentially incapable of doing a good job on the vehicle. I have also been told that this will go down as a fault claim as no 3rd party to claim off (I get this, although I'd have thought storm damage when not present/vehicle not moving might be in a different category, but then I'm not an expert on insurance).
However, I wish to use my chosen repairer. I understand that this is my right but when I spoke with the claims team they were clearly not happy with this and made a number of thinly veiled threats including lack of a courtesy car (not an issue as isn't my main car) but more importantly that they would charge me the difference in labour rates between their chosen repairer (presumably artificially low due to their "arrangements" with the group in question) and when I checked the policy document one of the clauses which is somewhat nebulous states this:
"If our approved repairer has accepted instructions to act, there is no need to obtain an estimate. If your own chosen repairer is used, you must obtain an estimate for the cost of the repairs and send it to us immediately. We will at our option inspect the damage to your vehicle before repairs are authorised. We will not be responsible for the cost of any new parts or accessories ordered, or repairs carried out, without our agreement. If we think the repair estimate is unreasonable, we may choose one of the following options; negotiate a lower estimate, pay you the cash equivalent of the price we consider reasonable or move your vehicle to another repairer. We have the right to move your vehicle to a safe storage place without asking you."
They also state: "f we choose, we may arrange for the repairer to use suitable (possibly recycled) parts and accessories that are made by a company other than the manufacturer of your vehicle." The car has done less than 4k miles and is about 18 months old.
Am I bound by these terms including their issue around labour rates.....? I have already made it clear to the broker that I am not happy at this stage and if they want to promote their business in the motorsport world that I am part of then they should not sell policies with underwriters who behave like this. F
Thanks for any help guys - really gutted to see the damage.
Steve
Quoted from a well know insurance site
If your car’s damaged in an accident or another incident, it can be a big inconvenience.
Whether it’s a minor scrape or a total write-off, you’ll probably want to get it repaired and back on the road as quickly as possible and most car insurance providers will offer to have your car fixed by an approved repairer.
Key points
When you make an insurance claim for car repairs, you can choose your own repairer
Your insurer probably won’t include a courtesy car if you choose to do this
You might have to pay higher excess and the repairs won’t be guaranteed by your insurer
Send quotes to your insurer for approval before having repair work carried out
If you take up their offer of using an approved repairer, that means using the insurer's own network of garages that they work with to get better deals and keep costs down.
But you might prefer to go for your own choice of repairer, because you trust them to do a good job, or simply because they’re local to you.
Your rights when it comes to repairs
You have a legal right to choose who repairs your car, even if you’re making a car insurance claim for it.
According to legislation known as the Block Exemption Regulation, your insurer can’t force you to use their repairers and they’ll still pay out for the repairs if your claim’s accepted.
It means you can choose to use a garage you know and trust to do a good job, and saves you travelling to your insurer’s chosen repairer.
However, your insurance provider might impose extra terms if you don’t use their approved mechanics such as charging a higher excess, limiting the repair cost or not giving you a courtesy car.
Disadvantages of using your own repairer
There are a few drawbacks to going to your own repairer - check the terms of your policy to find out if you’re affected by any of these.
Courtesy car
Following a claim where a repair has been completed by an approved repairer, insurance providers will typically guarantee the repairs for a set period, such as three years or more.
If you use your own repairer you won’t benefit from this guarantee, although your chosen repairer might still offer their own guarantee.
You could be charged an additional excess for using your own repairer.
This can be as much as 100% added to the standard excess.
Check your policy documents carefully to find out if there’s an additional excess for choosing your own repairer.
Equivalent cost of repairs
The final issue with using your own choice of repairer is that your insurer may not pay out the full cost of the repairs.
This is because it might argue that it could’ve arranged the repairs for less through its approved repairer.
If this is the case, the insurer may only agree to pay out what it would have paid to have the work done with its approved garage, which may be less than what your own repairer would charge.
It’s a good idea to get a quote from your own chosen repairer before getting any work done so you can send it to your insurer and find out if it’s willing to bear the full cost.
What to do if you want to use your own repairer
If you do want to use your own repairer, the first thing you’ll need to do is check your policy documents for any conditions and additional excesses.
Remember, you’re highly unlikely to be provided with a courtesy car by your insurer, so if you need to stay on the road, find out if your chosen repairer can offer you a vehicle instead. They might even give you one free of charge.
Get a quote from your chosen repairer and send it to your insurer for approval - you might have to email it post it. Follow it up with a phone call if you’re in a hurry to get repairs done.
If your insurer agrees to the cost of the work, make sure you’re clear over whether you’ll have to pay the garage yourself and claim the money back, or if your insurer will pay the repairer directly.
What happens once your claim’s approved
After your insurer has processed your claim, it’ll send someone out to assess the damage to your vehicle and work out how much it’ll cost to fix.
It’ll then send you a list of its approved repairers.
If you decide to use your own choice of garage, your insurer might ask you to send it an estimate of the repairs instead.
If you attempt to repair your car before it’s been assessed, your insurer could refuse you a courtesy car and your pay-out.
Once your insurance company has all the details, it can decide whether it’s worth repairing the car.
If the damage is particularly bad, it’ll write off your vehicle and offer you its market value.
Chat to your insurer if you think any decisions it’s made have been unfair.
If you can’t resolve the issue with it, you can complain to the Financial Ombudsman.
If your car’s damaged in an accident or another incident, it can be a big inconvenience.
Whether it’s a minor scrape or a total write-off, you’ll probably want to get it repaired and back on the road as quickly as possible and most car insurance providers will offer to have your car fixed by an approved repairer.
Key points
When you make an insurance claim for car repairs, you can choose your own repairer
Your insurer probably won’t include a courtesy car if you choose to do this
You might have to pay higher excess and the repairs won’t be guaranteed by your insurer
Send quotes to your insurer for approval before having repair work carried out
If you take up their offer of using an approved repairer, that means using the insurer's own network of garages that they work with to get better deals and keep costs down.
But you might prefer to go for your own choice of repairer, because you trust them to do a good job, or simply because they’re local to you.
Your rights when it comes to repairs
You have a legal right to choose who repairs your car, even if you’re making a car insurance claim for it.
According to legislation known as the Block Exemption Regulation, your insurer can’t force you to use their repairers and they’ll still pay out for the repairs if your claim’s accepted.
It means you can choose to use a garage you know and trust to do a good job, and saves you travelling to your insurer’s chosen repairer.
However, your insurance provider might impose extra terms if you don’t use their approved mechanics such as charging a higher excess, limiting the repair cost or not giving you a courtesy car.
Disadvantages of using your own repairer
There are a few drawbacks to going to your own repairer - check the terms of your policy to find out if you’re affected by any of these.
Courtesy car
Following a claim where a repair has been completed by an approved repairer, insurance providers will typically guarantee the repairs for a set period, such as three years or more.
If you use your own repairer you won’t benefit from this guarantee, although your chosen repairer might still offer their own guarantee.
You could be charged an additional excess for using your own repairer.
This can be as much as 100% added to the standard excess.
Check your policy documents carefully to find out if there’s an additional excess for choosing your own repairer.
Equivalent cost of repairs
The final issue with using your own choice of repairer is that your insurer may not pay out the full cost of the repairs.
This is because it might argue that it could’ve arranged the repairs for less through its approved repairer.
If this is the case, the insurer may only agree to pay out what it would have paid to have the work done with its approved garage, which may be less than what your own repairer would charge.
It’s a good idea to get a quote from your own chosen repairer before getting any work done so you can send it to your insurer and find out if it’s willing to bear the full cost.
What to do if you want to use your own repairer
If you do want to use your own repairer, the first thing you’ll need to do is check your policy documents for any conditions and additional excesses.
Remember, you’re highly unlikely to be provided with a courtesy car by your insurer, so if you need to stay on the road, find out if your chosen repairer can offer you a vehicle instead. They might even give you one free of charge.
Get a quote from your chosen repairer and send it to your insurer for approval - you might have to email it post it. Follow it up with a phone call if you’re in a hurry to get repairs done.
If your insurer agrees to the cost of the work, make sure you’re clear over whether you’ll have to pay the garage yourself and claim the money back, or if your insurer will pay the repairer directly.
What happens once your claim’s approved
After your insurer has processed your claim, it’ll send someone out to assess the damage to your vehicle and work out how much it’ll cost to fix.
It’ll then send you a list of its approved repairers.
If you decide to use your own choice of garage, your insurer might ask you to send it an estimate of the repairs instead.
If you attempt to repair your car before it’s been assessed, your insurer could refuse you a courtesy car and your pay-out.
Once your insurance company has all the details, it can decide whether it’s worth repairing the car.
If the damage is particularly bad, it’ll write off your vehicle and offer you its market value.
Chat to your insurer if you think any decisions it’s made have been unfair.
If you can’t resolve the issue with it, you can complain to the Financial Ombudsman.
BertBert said:
I know there we ill lots of people making this observation, but those terms look clear to me. What did you think when you took out the policy?
Bert
I don't know about DocSteve, but if it was me I would have thought that standard terms on the website of a completely different insurance company probably wouldn't affect me.Bert
hutchst said:
BertBert said:
I know there we ill lots of people making this observation, but those terms look clear to me. What did you think when you took out the policy?
Bert
I don't know about DocSteve, but if it was me I would have thought that standard terms on the website of a completely different insurance company probably wouldn't affect me.Bert
Bert
hutchst said:
BertBert said:
I know there we ill lots of people making this observation, but those terms look clear to me. What did you think when you took out the policy?
Bert
I don't know about DocSteve, but if it was me I would have thought that standard terms on the website of a completely different insurance company probably wouldn't affect me.Bert
My question is for legal/insurance experts. The terms of my policy may in fact be illegal and contrary to statutory protection I may have. Their proposal is not exactly in line with the policy wording anyway. I have seen plenty of advice on the internet which seems to refer to legal rights but have not found anything official to back that up.
I'm not trying to be an idiot, I'd just like some advice if someone who knows about this happens to be on the forum.
Can't you claim off your house insurance, or is it not allowed? The long term effects on the house insurance premiums would probably be less than on a motor insurance claim.
If tiles from somebody else's house in a storm had caused the damage, you could claim off them (if they have house insurance of course
) - 3rd party liability.
If tiles from somebody else's house in a storm had caused the damage, you could claim off them (if they have house insurance of course
) - 3rd party liability.V8fan said:
Can't you claim off your house insurance, or is it not allowed? The long term effects on the house insurance premiums would probably be less than on a motor insurance claim.
If tiles from somebody else's house in a storm had caused the damage, you could claim off them (if they have house insurance of course) - 3rd party liability.
Unfortunately not as it was my house so no 3rd party. Otherwise that would have been a much better option as you say!If tiles from somebody else's house in a storm had caused the damage, you could claim off them (if they have house insurance of course
) - 3rd party liability.V8fan said:
Can't you claim off your house insurance, or is it not allowed? The long term effects on the house insurance premiums would probably be less than on a motor insurance claim.
If tiles from somebody else's house in a storm had caused the damage, you could claim off them (if they have house insurance of course) - 3rd party liability.
If the tiles just fell off somebody’s roof you’d be in with a chance, but with the storms we’ve just had there is little chance of a third party being legally liable for the damage.If tiles from somebody else's house in a storm had caused the damage, you could claim off them (if they have house insurance of course
) - 3rd party liability.In this case it was the OP’s own roof and you cannot claim from yourself under the Property Owners Liability cover.
CanAm said:
V8fan said:
Can't you claim off your house insurance, or is it not allowed? The long term effects on the house insurance premiums would probably be less than on a motor insurance claim.
If tiles from somebody else's house in a storm had caused the damage, you could claim off them (if they have house insurance of course) - 3rd party liability.
If the tiles just fell off somebody’s roof you’d be in with a chance, but with the storms we’ve just had there is little chance of a third party being legally liable for the damage.If tiles from somebody else's house in a storm had caused the damage, you could claim off them (if they have house insurance of course
) - 3rd party liability.In this case it was the OP’s own roof and you cannot claim from yourself under the Property Owners Liability cover.
Thanks again
Steve
This is not a legal view point, but a pragmatic one, written by someone who carries out independent damage surveys for underwriters in the event of a claim. I should say, however, that I work in shipping, not automotive.
In shipping, the broker try’s to help the assured in the event of a claim. The broker doesn’t pay the claim. It’s not their money. The underwriter pays. The broker does, however, want to keep the assured happy. Come renewal time they want to keep your business. The best way of doing this is to show that in the event of a claim they will help you.
It sounds like you give them a fair amount of business and you are clearly a good risk to underwriters if this is your first claim. I would make it very clear to the brokers that you expect their support in this, and if you don’t get it then come renewal time you will be taking all your business elsewhere.
If it is a specialist car with an exotic roof material, then point out, as I am sure you have, that at that age and mileage it is very reasonable for a specialist to repair it. If it is not specialist, you have to be a bit careful with this as most body shops are perfectly capable of repairing a dent from a roof tile to any “average”(run of the mill) car. A long time ago we had roof tile damage (like you, from my own roof) and decided not to make a claim.
It was a good sized dent and I was worried about whether it would even be possible to repair without a new roof. Local back street body shop quoted £300 and when it was finished you would never have known. We sold the car recently, but it was still invisible and a perfect colour match.
In shipping, the broker try’s to help the assured in the event of a claim. The broker doesn’t pay the claim. It’s not their money. The underwriter pays. The broker does, however, want to keep the assured happy. Come renewal time they want to keep your business. The best way of doing this is to show that in the event of a claim they will help you.
It sounds like you give them a fair amount of business and you are clearly a good risk to underwriters if this is your first claim. I would make it very clear to the brokers that you expect their support in this, and if you don’t get it then come renewal time you will be taking all your business elsewhere.
If it is a specialist car with an exotic roof material, then point out, as I am sure you have, that at that age and mileage it is very reasonable for a specialist to repair it. If it is not specialist, you have to be a bit careful with this as most body shops are perfectly capable of repairing a dent from a roof tile to any “average”(run of the mill) car. A long time ago we had roof tile damage (like you, from my own roof) and decided not to make a claim.
It was a good sized dent and I was worried about whether it would even be possible to repair without a new roof. Local back street body shop quoted £300 and when it was finished you would never have known. We sold the car recently, but it was still invisible and a perfect colour match.
DocSteve said:
I have also been told that this will go down as a fault claim as no 3rd party to claim off (I get this, although I'd have thought storm damage when not present/vehicle not moving might be in a different category, but then I'm not an expert on insurance).
There are basically 2 types of claim as far as motor insurance is concerned. Fault...they pay out but cannot claim back 100% of their outlay from someone else or their insurer. Non fault....they can claim back 100% of their outlay. That's it. Whether you run into the back of someone else whilst drunk, or get hit by a meteor, makes no odds. An update - after speaking with the broker again they acknowledged I was a good customer and didn't want to lose my business. They told me that if I didn't hear anything form the underwriter by 4pm today to get back to them. I now have a personal email from an underwriter employee with their own details who said I was misinformed about the labour charge difference and I could go with my chosen repairer.
I think PH rules prevent me disclosing who the broker is but I will say that they have clearly acted as they should and provided value for money by taking this up for me.
I think PH rules prevent me disclosing who the broker is but I will say that they have clearly acted as they should and provided value for money by taking this up for me.
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff