Discussion
Like always this isn't an easy one so I will start from the beginning and try to keep it simple.
My business partner has a car, his personal vehicle, it was taxed, MOT'd and insured from about last April or so, everything as it should be. Sometime late last year it was hit up the arse by a dizzy bint on her phone, he went direct to the 3rd party insurer and they ended up writing his car off, he got his payout and also bought the car back from the insurance, repaired it and carried on driving it. I only mention the accident because he thinks he gave the insurance company the log book as he can't currently find it anywhere.
Now even though the log book may have been sent to the insurance company its obviously still in his name because it still showed as taxed and MOT'd on the various databases and it was only a cat D payout anyway or what ever the new classification is, also the tax direct debits have still been coming out of his bank OK.
Now fast forward to the present day and due to not needing the car at the moment and the MOT and insurance have now expired he decided to SORN it, not having a log book I downloaded the PDF form from the DVLA site, got him to sign it and we put it in the post box towards the end of March and he cancelled the direct debit for the tax from the 1st April onwards, it needed Sorning from that date as the insurance was about to expire.
With it so far? The problem is the car is still showing as taxed on the DVLA system 6 weeks later and he has now had one of those "last chance" letters from the DVLA regarding the insurance, nothing about the supposed missing tax payments for April and May. From reading other threads on here is seems the DVLA is shut, not reading postal mail etc but obviously still able to send out the threatograms side of things.
So how can this be rectified, DVLA will never in a million years admit that they have received the letter, they will just deny it until the end of time blaming the owner, he can't SORN it on-line due to the lack of a log book and if he tries at the Post Office I would imagine it can only be sorned from 1st June, leaving him liable for back tax of a couple of months a potential fine and a continuous insurance offence.
Personally I don't think he should do anything about it as he complied fully with the law at the time, we still have a copy of the filled in form and I'm a witness that we posted it at the time. What baffles me though is crisis or no crisis how can an organisation as big as the DVLA decide to shut up shop, imagine if the police or hospitals said tough titties we all feel a bit under the weather so we are shutting and all going home.
My business partner has a car, his personal vehicle, it was taxed, MOT'd and insured from about last April or so, everything as it should be. Sometime late last year it was hit up the arse by a dizzy bint on her phone, he went direct to the 3rd party insurer and they ended up writing his car off, he got his payout and also bought the car back from the insurance, repaired it and carried on driving it. I only mention the accident because he thinks he gave the insurance company the log book as he can't currently find it anywhere.
Now even though the log book may have been sent to the insurance company its obviously still in his name because it still showed as taxed and MOT'd on the various databases and it was only a cat D payout anyway or what ever the new classification is, also the tax direct debits have still been coming out of his bank OK.
Now fast forward to the present day and due to not needing the car at the moment and the MOT and insurance have now expired he decided to SORN it, not having a log book I downloaded the PDF form from the DVLA site, got him to sign it and we put it in the post box towards the end of March and he cancelled the direct debit for the tax from the 1st April onwards, it needed Sorning from that date as the insurance was about to expire.
With it so far? The problem is the car is still showing as taxed on the DVLA system 6 weeks later and he has now had one of those "last chance" letters from the DVLA regarding the insurance, nothing about the supposed missing tax payments for April and May. From reading other threads on here is seems the DVLA is shut, not reading postal mail etc but obviously still able to send out the threatograms side of things.
So how can this be rectified, DVLA will never in a million years admit that they have received the letter, they will just deny it until the end of time blaming the owner, he can't SORN it on-line due to the lack of a log book and if he tries at the Post Office I would imagine it can only be sorned from 1st June, leaving him liable for back tax of a couple of months a potential fine and a continuous insurance offence.
Personally I don't think he should do anything about it as he complied fully with the law at the time, we still have a copy of the filled in form and I'm a witness that we posted it at the time. What baffles me though is crisis or no crisis how can an organisation as big as the DVLA decide to shut up shop, imagine if the police or hospitals said tough titties we all feel a bit under the weather so we are shutting and all going home.
mgv8 said:
First thing I would do is get a replacement log book.
We've looked at that too but you can only either apply for a log book by phone or post, the site says you might be able to apply for a log book when you tax the car at a Post Office but obviously it can't be taxed, one because he doesn't want to and two its not MOT'd or insured at the moment.Can you apply for a log book on its own from the post office, are post offices even open at the moment?
You don't need insurance to tax a car any more, but the system will check for a valid MoT. Because many people insure online and then tax a car immediately afterwards, the database takes a few days to update.
If it is still showing as taxed, then payments must have been taken. Unless the whole 6 or 12 months was paid for up front?
However, if after a few weeks a car with valid VED still has no insurance, you will get an 'uninsured vehicle' letter from DVLA telling you to insure it or declare it SORN. A few days, they don't bother. Not sure if this will help the predicament.
If it is still showing as taxed, then payments must have been taken. Unless the whole 6 or 12 months was paid for up front?
However, if after a few weeks a car with valid VED still has no insurance, you will get an 'uninsured vehicle' letter from DVLA telling you to insure it or declare it SORN. A few days, they don't bother. Not sure if this will help the predicament.
Edited by V8fan on Thursday 7th May 17:19
V8fan said:
You don't need insurance to tax a car any more, but the system will check for a valid MoT. Because many people insure online and then tax a car immediately afterwards, the database takes a few days to update.
If it is still showing as taxed, then payments must have been taken. Unless the whole 6 or 12 months was paid for up front?
However, if after a few weeks a car with valid VED still has no insurance, you will get an 'uninsured vehicle' letter from DVLA telling you to insure it or declare it SORN. A few days, they don't bother. Not sure if this will help the predicament.
Most of that has already happened, the MOT and insurance ran out about the 3rd of April or thereabouts, it was taxed until October this year and still is apparently paid monthly by DD. The form for SORN was filled in and posted on 26th March and the direct debit was cancelled at the same time. I know all this because we sorted it all out in the morning before we left my house for work.If it is still showing as taxed, then payments must have been taken. Unless the whole 6 or 12 months was paid for up front?
However, if after a few weeks a car with valid VED still has no insurance, you will get an 'uninsured vehicle' letter from DVLA telling you to insure it or declare it SORN. A few days, they don't bother. Not sure if this will help the predicament.
Edited by V8fan on Thursday 7th May 17:19
Like I say, he is in no rush to tax or MOT it any time soon, he is using the van at the moment and his missus has bought her own car for her work, his car also needs a windscreen probably before it can be MOT'd. Obvious answer would be to write to them to explain things, but you know the DVLA, either that or go on hold for 8 hours until they shut the phone system down for the day.
I think this just about answers it for us/him that I've just found.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/dvla-coronavirus-covid...
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/dvla-coronavirus-covid...
DVLA site said:
In line with the government’s advice we have a very limited number of staff on-site who are only dealing with applications from those who are directly involved in the response to the COVID-19 pandemic
and of course the department that knocks the penalties out.scottyp123 said:
Most of that has already happened, the MOT and insurance ran out about the 3rd of April or thereabouts, it was taxed until October this year and still is apparently paid monthly by DD. The form for SORN was filled in and posted on 26th March and the direct debit was cancelled at the same time. I know all this because we sorted it all out in the morning before we left my house for work.
Like I say, he is in no rush to tax or MOT it any time soon, he is using the van at the moment and his missus has bought her own car for her work, his car also needs a windscreen probably before it can be MOT'd. Obvious answer would be to write to them to explain things, but you know the DVLA, either that or go on hold for 8 hours until they shut the phone system down for the day.
I asked if it was paid for in one go because the VED remains valid even when the MoT runs out if it has been all paid for. Like I say, he is in no rush to tax or MOT it any time soon, he is using the van at the moment and his missus has bought her own car for her work, his car also needs a windscreen probably before it can be MOT'd. Obvious answer would be to write to them to explain things, but you know the DVLA, either that or go on hold for 8 hours until they shut the phone system down for the day.
If it is paid for monthly by d/d, then the system does a check for a valid MoT before it takes the monthly payment. If the MoT had truly run out in early April, then the d/d payment for May would not have been taken and the car would now be untaxed, 'normally.' However, due to covid19, the DVLA have extended all MoT expiry dates after 30/03/20 by 6 months so that will be why the d/d payments are still being taken.
My neighbour fell foul of this pre-covid19, the car was untaxed despite thinking they had a d/d in place because the MoT had run out. They ended up with a fine for an untaxed vehicle.
Edited by V8fan on Friday 8th May 14:27
mad4amanda said:
Thats odd my MOT ran our in October but car was off road at a garage for repair only sorted it a month ago and they were still taking payments ?
I cannot find it now but about 6 weeks ago on a separate thread about SORN, somebody wrote that that the VED monthly d/d would not be taken if there were no MoT in place. I always pay for 12 months because I don't want to pay the 5% loading for d/d but that's what I had been led to believe. The gov.uk website advises that your VED renewal will require an MoT:
https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-tax-direct-debit/renewi...
Honest John advised me that you need a valid Mot to park on the roads when I queried their advice about SORN. I'm not sure about that:
https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/AskHj/UserQuestion?qu...
Taking advice from the Honest John site is rarely wise, but the site is correct to say that you need an MOT to park on a public road.
OP, you may be fussing about nothing. As you sent the form by post, it would be for DVLA to show that the letter was not received at its offices. Absent that, the form is deemed to have been delivered. You can wrote a polite and short letter explaining what happened. DVLA cannot itself impose penalties, although it sometimes says "pay x to avoid a penalty".
The Government has chosen to run DVLA on a minimal basis for the time being, rather than have a lot of staff sitting in what I assume is a large open plan office. This is a bit irksome for some, but it's understandable in the current situation.
OP, you may be fussing about nothing. As you sent the form by post, it would be for DVLA to show that the letter was not received at its offices. Absent that, the form is deemed to have been delivered. You can wrote a polite and short letter explaining what happened. DVLA cannot itself impose penalties, although it sometimes says "pay x to avoid a penalty".
The Government has chosen to run DVLA on a minimal basis for the time being, rather than have a lot of staff sitting in what I assume is a large open plan office. This is a bit irksome for some, but it's understandable in the current situation.
If one doesn't have the V5C, one can order a replacement by telephone for £25.
If one needs to tax or SORN immediately without a V5C (e.g. you've just bought a car with no V5C or didn't get the green slip - or you've lost/posted off your V5C and DVLA are unlikely to be of any use for weeks...) then one can fill out a V62 at a local Post Office, present £25, and either ask for it to be SORN or provide the required monies to tax it.
The replacement V5C should then arrive whenever DVLA pull their finger out.
Yes, you are paying £25 to overcome DVLA's ineptitude in this case, but if you want total peace of mind and don't want to deal with 'I sent it', 'no you didn't', 'yes, I did' arguments for weeks...
If one needs to tax or SORN immediately without a V5C (e.g. you've just bought a car with no V5C or didn't get the green slip - or you've lost/posted off your V5C and DVLA are unlikely to be of any use for weeks...) then one can fill out a V62 at a local Post Office, present £25, and either ask for it to be SORN or provide the required monies to tax it.
The replacement V5C should then arrive whenever DVLA pull their finger out.
Yes, you are paying £25 to overcome DVLA's ineptitude in this case, but if you want total peace of mind and don't want to deal with 'I sent it', 'no you didn't', 'yes, I did' arguments for weeks...
Edited by RSTurboPaul on Sunday 10th May 21:09
Except they aren't accepting phone calls. Unless you can convince them you are a 'key worker....'
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/dvla-coronavirus-covid...
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/dvla-coronavirus-covid...
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