Parking fine: card payment declined

[Blown2CV]

I parked at a NPR car park for a few hours and then when I went to pay my card for declined. I tried it a couple of times and then a different card from a different account, but all were declined. Stupidly I never captured evidence of the declines and no dockets were issued. I had no cash and no other means to pay and so I left and contacted the place afterwards but never received a response. I am currently involved in a dispute and the case that the parking operator has put forward is just a list of successful payments received on this day. To me, this doesn’t prove anything as it only proves it was working some of the time. Am I knackered as I don’t have proof of the declines? I have asked the banks if they can provide evidence but I suspect if the machines were faulty then the request might not have even made it to the bank... any advice please? Thanks

[shep1001]

Phone your card provider, see what they can do for you. There will be a record of it.

They will also tell you the reason for the decline. It might be your fault ie not the parking companies payment system in which case you will have to suck it up.

[anonymous-user]

The parking company will also be able to confirm this via their acquirer. Let them prove it.

I had a very similar experience with a broken payment machine operated by Britannia parking, I phoned them but was only able to leave a message and they didn’t call me back and I then received an invoice for £60 that I am currently appealing (currently suspended due to covid).

They do make is very ease to pay the £60 invoice online. Actually paying the parking meter online is impossible.

[Mandalore]

I can honestly say, that I wouldn’t have risked it.

I hope you get sorted though, but I would guess the burden of proof is probably on yourself and not them, due to the terms.

[PorkInsider]

sugerbear said:

Let them prove it.

Why would they do that?

[Blown2CV]

sugerbear said:

The parking company will also be able to confirm this via their acquirer. Let them prove it.

I had a very similar experience with a broken payment machine operated by Britannia parking, I phoned them but was only able to leave a message and they didn’t call me back and I then received an invoice for £60 that I am currently appealing (currently suspended due to covid).

They do make is very ease to pay the £60 invoice online. Actually paying the parking meter online is impossible.

the issue is that they may well have that data in front of them, but it would harm their case, so why would they use it? They have produced a load of successful transactions from other people, to use as some kind of evidence to support their case, but it doesn't prove there were no issues with the machines when i came to use them. However, without evidence of card declines it only has my personal account to back it up. The arbitrator may well just rule that I owe the fine as there is nothing on my side to say I did anything other than just drive off.

A further thing is that coin payment was available, but I didn't have any change (wife's car, she never has any... i have a fking bank bag full of coins in mine for exactly this type of st).

[Blown2CV]

shep1001 said:

Phone your card provider, see what they can do for you. There will be a record of it.

They will also tell you the reason for the decline. It might be your fault ie not the parking companies payment system in which case you will have to suck it up.

yea did that already, just waiting for responses. If it is my fault then of course I can't suggest otherwise... however two different cards across two different banks, not even the same payment scheme... both declined... it wasn't my fault.

[Centurion07]

PorkInsider said:

sugerbear said:

Let them prove it.

Why would they do that?

Exactly.

They already have proof you didn't pay...because you didn't pay.

I have zero knowledge of these machines but surely the payment could have failed at any point in the process; the machine was having a strop and just didn't want to read the card; the authorisation request never made it to the bank so they won't have a record of it; it was declined by the bank for some reason.

The only way OP can get out of this is by providing proof he did indeed try to pay, which means hopefully the bank having received the request but then if they did receive the request and didn't fulfil it the problem was with them, not the machine in the car park. Either way, no payment was made.

I can't see the parking firm searching their records for you to try and find some sort of "receipt" that you did indeed try and pay but they failed to take the payment.

[Pegscratch]

Centurion07 said:

I can't see the parking firm searching their records for you to try and find some sort of "receipt" that you did indeed try and pay but they failed to take the payment.

If they wish to present this to a court for enforcement the magistrate will find it very difficult to entertain them if the OP presents an email advising that he tried to pay and was unsuccessful due to a perceived fault with the machine and asking them to try and identify the failed transactions. They are people at the end of the day and 99% of people have come across a machine that will not take payment at some point in their life...

[motco]

A record of successful transactions will have times and dates. Look for a significant gap at or around the time you failed to pay. Obviously, if there are more than one pay terminal they have to show the one you were attempting to use.

[The Mad Monk]

Blown2CV said:

A further thing is that coin payment was available, but I didn't have any change (wife's car, she never has any... i have a fking bank bag full of coins in mine for exactly this type of st).

And the moral of this story is?......

If you use your wife's car as well as your own, then treat your wife's car as if it were your own.

e.g.
I have a spare phone in my car - also one in my wife's car.
Spare leads, a USB plug thing to go in the cigarette lighter socket - also in my wife's car.
And so on.

OK I know I will get caught out, but at least I tried.

[Smurfsarepeopletoo]

The way I understand it is that you have an amount of time after entering the car park to park and pay, possibly 10 minutes, if there was the option to pay with coins, you could have then left the car park to get change to pay for the parking without a risk of being fined.

Attempting to pay with 2 cards and them being declined wouldnt necessarily indicate that the card payment system was at fault, and even if it was, as long as the coin option was working, then the onus would be on you to make sure you paid for parking.

I would have thought that you deciding not to pay just because you didnt have any change on you, wouldnt be a reasonable argument to cancel a fine.

I could however be wrong lol

[Blown2CV]

The Mad Monk said:

Blown2CV said:

A further thing is that coin payment was available, but I didn't have any change (wife's car, she never has any... i have a fking bank bag full of coins in mine for exactly this type of st).

And the moral of this story is?......

If you use your wife's car as well as your own, then treat your wife's car as if it were your own.

e.g.
I have a spare phone in my car - also one in my wife's car.
Spare leads, a USB plug thing to go in the cigarette lighter socket - also in my wife's car.
And so on.

OK I know I will get caught out, but at least I tried.

yes thanks i do realise. I bought the wife a little purse and put some coins in it for her like she was a child, however when i came to use it of course it was empty.

[Blown2CV]

Smurfsarepeopletoo said:

The way I understand it is that you have an amount of time after entering the car park to park and pay, possibly 10 minutes, if there was the option to pay with coins, you could have then left the car park to get change to pay for the parking without a risk of being fined.

Attempting to pay with 2 cards and them being declined wouldnt necessarily indicate that the card payment system was at fault, and even if it was, as long as the coin option was working, then the onus would be on you to make sure you paid for parking.

I would have thought that you deciding not to pay just because you didnt have any change on you, wouldnt be a reasonable argument to cancel a fine.

I could however be wrong lol

well yes it is on my mind, however it is almost reasonable these days to start to expect that just about everywhere accepts card. Anyway the place was literally in the middle of nowhere though. No chance of being able to get change and return. No staff on site, and no phone number that I could see. There only appeared to be one machine.

[recordman]

Surely, if the machine declines your cards for whatever reason it doesn't entitle you to continue to park there without paying. I think I would have driven away and parked somewhere else.

If I go into a shop and try to pay for something with a card and it gets declined, I wouldn't expect to walk away with the item without paying.

[Blown2CV]

recordman said:

Surely, if the machine declines your cards for whatever reason it doesn't entitle you to continue to park there without paying. I think I would have driven away and parked somewhere else.

If I go into a shop and try to pay for something with a card and it gets declined, I wouldn't expect to walk away with the item without paying.

it was NPR. As soon as you enter it starts the clock, and you pay before you leave.

[Floydey]

I've had this exact situation over the past 12 months with Parking Eye, at a Bristol based hospital.

I paid contactless, the money was immediately rejected/refunded and disappeared from my statement.
Threats and actual court letters followed - I contacted my credit card provider and they provided a statement that I attempted to pay.
The court threw out the case and if I could have been bothered, I would have counter-claimed for the waste of my time, but it was £100 or so just to lodge the papers.

Don't underestimate the ignorance and brutishness of the 'enforcers', they'll likely be on some sort of incentive based programme to get money out of everyone possible

[semisane]

Mandalore said:

I can honestly say, that I wouldn’t have risked it.

I hope you get sorted though, but I would guess the burden of proof is probably on yourself and not them, due to the terms.

Not sure I understand your first sentence

[KungFuPanda]

If you tried to pay multiple times, with multiple cards and they all failed, we've got to presume that the problem was at their end. Perhaps the payment processing machine couldn't dial out to obtain authorisation for the transactions. If that was the case, there would be no evidence with any of your card issuers of a payment request being knocked back as the request wouldn't have got to them in the first place.

[Blown2CV]

KungFuPanda said:

If you tried to pay multiple times, with multiple cards and they all failed, we've got to presume that the problem was at their end. Perhaps the payment processing machine couldn't dial out to obtain authorisation for the transactions. If that was the case, there would be no evidence with any of your card issuers of a payment request being knocked back as the request wouldn't have got to them in the first place.

this is the fear, of course.