20mph enforcement
Discussion
I just got a NIP for one, even though I wasnt there.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
agtlaw said:
There’s an urban myth that 20 mph limits are advisory / unenforceable.
They are definitely enforced.
I think that the myth arises from the fact that, in the early days, many were advisory - if a local authority wanted to impose an urban speed limit they had to get special dispensation from the Secretary of State for the Order and for the signs, which weren't, at that time, type approved. I promoted one of the very first enforceable 20mph speed limits, on the landside of an airport at that time, and it was an absolute PITA. They are definitely enforced.
Knowing that it was so awkward, many authorities put up advisory signing for zones such as "twenty's plenty". Those normal have a green circle around them, and aren't enforceable.
That was 30 years ago or so. Under the current regulations, local authorities can more readily introduce 20 mph speed limits, either on specific streets, or in whole zones. Those go through the same legal process as any other speed limit, to make the necessary Orders, and ARE enforceable.
Only the enforceable ones should have a red circle around the "20" - any other colour suggests "advisory" although the main criterion is "is there a legal Order behind this" - if so, then enforceable, if not, then advisory. Best assume that it is enforceable, unless you're certain that it isn't!
I got to do a SAC for a 20mph speeding catch by a van. It was one of the first courses in the country. No different to a normal SAC.
At the end we were told w3 would be recontacted to do a survey about the new 20 SAC. Opinions asked for about suitability of such a course, effectiveness ( did it make me think about speed etc). Should they carry on?
I look on SAC’s as a rebuke and chance to assess driving ( a reminder or top up) and refresh things that have been forgotten. I am ok with that as we gradually develop habits that might need reining in. Plus it is no points. Cost/fine for both so no real difference. Opinions do vary though! My
The 20 SAC was a surprise as I was just within the time limit to disqualify me from another SAC. I was told that as it was a new limit it was to allow more early assessment of whether it was going to be effective and that allowed me to get the offer so they could speed up ( no pun intended) their decision to continue or stop.
At the end we were told w3 would be recontacted to do a survey about the new 20 SAC. Opinions asked for about suitability of such a course, effectiveness ( did it make me think about speed etc). Should they carry on?
I look on SAC’s as a rebuke and chance to assess driving ( a reminder or top up) and refresh things that have been forgotten. I am ok with that as we gradually develop habits that might need reining in. Plus it is no points. Cost/fine for both so no real difference. Opinions do vary though! My
The 20 SAC was a surprise as I was just within the time limit to disqualify me from another SAC. I was told that as it was a new limit it was to allow more early assessment of whether it was going to be effective and that allowed me to get the offer so they could speed up ( no pun intended) their decision to continue or stop.
There's a wide flat boulevard nearby with excellent visibility and no fixed camera, but it's 20mph. Police like to hang out and catch supercars/bikes accelerating past 80/90mph - they are so f
ked. I would be concerned about temporary speed traps, especially if it's roads where people are known to drive fast.
ked. I would be concerned about temporary speed traps, especially if it's roads where people are known to drive fast. Just remembered a comment made by one of the people running the 20SAC.
“As a guide, to help control your speed use your gears
20 Zone be in 2nd gear.
30 Zone be in 3rd gear.”
I didn’t bite as it would have been daft to discus variables such as uphill/downhill/flat, how different cars behaved, engine capabilities like torque characteristics, fuel consumption and more.
I did later try it out. In both cars. 1.6l family car and 4l V8 lightweight sports car. Decided it wouldn’t suit either.
“As a guide, to help control your speed use your gears
20 Zone be in 2nd gear.
30 Zone be in 3rd gear.”
I didn’t bite as it would have been daft to discus variables such as uphill/downhill/flat, how different cars behaved, engine capabilities like torque characteristics, fuel consumption and more.
I did later try it out. In both cars. 1.6l family car and 4l V8 lightweight sports car. Decided it wouldn’t suit either.
agtlaw said:
There’s an urban myth that 20 mph limits are advisory / unenforceable.
They are definitely enforced.
Is there a minimum distance for a speed limit to be enforceable over?They are definitely enforced.
There's a 20 limit near me where the large sign '20' as you enter the limit is ringed in green instead of red with the words 'Advisory Speed Limit' actually written on the sign, there are no small repeaters and there is no signage when you re-enter the 30 limit either side of it.
I'd also estimate that the distance between the entry/exit signs is about 70/80 metres.
Edinburgh had an unreasonably large area converted to a 20 zone a year or so ago.
There was the initial effort made by a few officers with guns at the side of the road to show they were taking it seriously and making sure local press wrote a few stories.
Now it is pretty common to follow a marked police car through these areas at the traditional 30, nobody seems to bat an eyelid.
There was the initial effort made by a few officers with guns at the side of the road to show they were taking it seriously and making sure local press wrote a few stories.
Now it is pretty common to follow a marked police car through these areas at the traditional 30, nobody seems to bat an eyelid.
Tango13 said:
agtlaw said:
There’s an urban myth that 20 mph limits are advisory / unenforceable.
They are definitely enforced.
Is there a minimum distance for a speed limit to be enforceable over?They are definitely enforced.
There's a 20 limit near me where the large sign '20' as you enter the limit is ringed in green instead of red with the words 'Advisory Speed Limit' actually written on the sign, there are no small repeaters and there is no signage when you re-enter the 30 limit either side of it.
I'd also estimate that the distance between the entry/exit signs is about 70/80 metres.
Edited by tvrgit on Sunday 7th June 19:51
AudiMan9000 said:
I’ve found that when I comply with a 20mph speed limit it feels like I’m crawling and causing an obstruction to other traffic who want to travel at ‘normal’ speeds I.e. the 20 zone ‘feels’ like a 30 zone.
Be that as it may (as these generally used to be 30s!) that wouldn't wash as a defence much as "this car at 100mph is much more capable than all these other cars at 70" wouldn't if you get pulled on the motorway.My first experiences of 20mph limits* were on roads where a lot of people broke the 30mph limit, I wondered if the intention was to get the 40mph everywhere crowd to wind it back to 30.
*Anyone remember the one between Hampton and Hampton Court along the river about 20 years ago? Seems they've just reverted it to a 30 and put a camera up.
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