Care home managing director.
Discussion
I've recently dealt with a man who's the managing director of a care home. Based on my research the home provides care provisions for the elderly, sufferers of mental diseases such as dementia, alzheimer's disease and palliative care for end of life patients. It came to my attention through my dealings with the guy that he's acquired power of attorney over a number of individuals in his care. For example, on a small street of 12 properties, he's in control of one third of these properties plus each of the owners assets. The man is not what I'd describe as scrupulous. According to reviews of his care home, management hide poor customer reviews via Google and treat patients and employees poorly. He's acquired an extensive 1000,000+ home with all the trimmings. Basically I'm suspecting some kind of fraud but I can't put a name it? Just wondered if anyone knew what could enable the care home sector to facilitate this?
Might be worth a look at https://www.actionfraud.police.uk/a-z-of-fraud-cat... or reporting to them. I'm sure the chap wouldn't mind being investigated if all is legitimate.
Do you actually know these things or just "common knowledge" rumour?
If you can prove/backup claims like being in control of a number of properties that belong to residents and abuse of his power of attorney, then you can report him for it.
If you can't because it's just rumours from staff and a like, then there is going to be very little you can do.
If you can prove/backup claims like being in control of a number of properties that belong to residents and abuse of his power of attorney, then you can report him for it.
If you can't because it's just rumours from staff and a like, then there is going to be very little you can do.
KrazyIvan said:
Do you actually know these things or just "common knowledge" rumour?
If you can prove/backup claims like being in control of a number of properties that belong to residents and abuse of his power of attorney, then you can report him for it.
If you can't because it's just rumours from staff and a like, then there is going to be very little you can do.
Should the OP not report anyway? If he has his suspicions then it’s up to the police to investigate, not the OP. If you can prove/backup claims like being in control of a number of properties that belong to residents and abuse of his power of attorney, then you can report him for it.
If you can't because it's just rumours from staff and a like, then there is going to be very little you can do.
u ok hun xx said:
For example, on a small street of 12 properties, he's in control of one third of these properties plus each of the owners assets.
On the face of it this seems pretty unethical and a conflict of interest benefitting financially while being POA, but proving wrongdoing is going to be the important and hard part. If the police won't do anything perhaps social services or the local PCT might take a view of what is arguably elder abuse.A friend who knows the industry well has sent me this link which might be a start: https://www.cqc.org.uk/contact-us/report-concern/r...
hidetheelephants said:
On the face of it this seems pretty unethical and a conflict of interest benefitting financially while being POA, but proving wrongdoing is going to be the important and hard part. If the police won't do anything perhaps social services or the local PCT might take a view of what is arguably elder abuse.
That's all valid. It's impossible to prove and I'm working partially on gut instinct. After more digging I unearthed information from a decade ago - the man's in on it big time, unscrupulous, ruthless, but on the surface appearing whiter than white. The crux is nothing will come of reporting his conduct as there's little to back this up. The conflicts of interest might be the only thing to work with. You can't "hide" bad reviews on google - the only way to take them down is to contact google with proof the review has broken one of google's rules. Bad reviews based on actual experiences do not break rules and will stay.
Some people will get fake, favourable reviews to push the real bad ones down the list, but they'll always be there, and will affect the overall score.
Some people will get fake, favourable reviews to push the real bad ones down the list, but they'll always be there, and will affect the overall score.
u ok hun xx said:
hidetheelephants said:
On the face of it this seems pretty unethical and a conflict of interest benefitting financially while being POA, but proving wrongdoing is going to be the important and hard part. If the police won't do anything perhaps social services or the local PCT might take a view of what is arguably elder abuse.
That's all valid. It's impossible to prove and I'm working partially on gut instinct. After more digging I unearthed information from a decade ago - the man's in on it big time, unscrupulous, ruthless, but on the surface appearing whiter than white. The crux is nothing will come of reporting his conduct as there's little to back this up. The conflicts of interest might be the only thing to work with. I can see he’s got the opportunity to rip his residents off, overcharge them etc etc but other than your gut feeling is there any evidence to support this. You say he’s “in on it big time, unscrupulous, ruthless” - in what way?
It’s quite possible to get a £1m house through dint of hard work. Running a care home is not easy.
The possibly dubious part for me is 'sufferers of mental diseases such as dementia, alzheimer's disease and palliative care for end of life patients. It came to my attention through my dealings with the guy that he's acquired power of attorney over a number of individuals in his care.' The implication is that he's taken advantage of their mental unfitness for personal gain. Presumably the patients concerned have no families? It may actually be that he's stepped in because there's no-one else to do it.
You can also report him to the Office of the Public Guardian here - https://www.gov.uk/report-concern-about-attorney-d...
There are only two ways of gaining lasting power of attorney for either health/welfare or finances.
1) An individual with capacity (i.e. of sound mind) decides to set it up, completes the forms and has it witnessed by a doctor or a solicitor.
2) An application is made to the court of protection (i.e. judges and lawyers) to make a decision on behalf of an individual without capacity.
It’s seems unlikely that a bunch of unrelated people would hand over control of their finances to a random. It also seems unlikely that a court would do the same. There must be some information missing.
1) An individual with capacity (i.e. of sound mind) decides to set it up, completes the forms and has it witnessed by a doctor or a solicitor.
2) An application is made to the court of protection (i.e. judges and lawyers) to make a decision on behalf of an individual without capacity.
It’s seems unlikely that a bunch of unrelated people would hand over control of their finances to a random. It also seems unlikely that a court would do the same. There must be some information missing.
Ean218 said:
Is it not likely that an unscrupulous, ruthless individual would also be acquainted with similar minded solicitors?
I agree it’s possible, though I would suggest pretty unlikely. It’s a conspiracy that would require lots of people to either be actively or tacitly complicit, including but not limited to social workers, doctors and solicitors. So to my mind Occam’s Razor applies. DeWar said:
There are only two ways of gaining lasting power of attorney for either health/welfare or finances.
1) An individual with capacity (i.e. of sound mind) decides to set it up, completes the forms and has it witnessed by a doctor or a solicitor.
2) An application is made to the court of protection (i.e. judges and lawyers) to make a decision on behalf of an individual without capacity.
It’s seems unlikely that a bunch of unrelated people would hand over control of their finances to a random. It also seems unlikely that a court would do the same. There must be some information missing.
It does not have to be witnessed by a doctor or solicitor.1) An individual with capacity (i.e. of sound mind) decides to set it up, completes the forms and has it witnessed by a doctor or a solicitor.
2) An application is made to the court of protection (i.e. judges and lawyers) to make a decision on behalf of an individual without capacity.
It’s seems unlikely that a bunch of unrelated people would hand over control of their finances to a random. It also seems unlikely that a court would do the same. There must be some information missing.
Any regular Joe can act as a witness.
vonhosen said:
DeWar said:
There are only two ways of gaining lasting power of attorney for either health/welfare or finances.
1) An individual with capacity (i.e. of sound mind) decides to set it up, completes the forms and has it witnessed by a doctor or a solicitor.
2) An application is made to the court of protection (i.e. judges and lawyers) to make a decision on behalf of an individual without capacity.
It’s seems unlikely that a bunch of unrelated people would hand over control of their finances to a random. It also seems unlikely that a court would do the same. There must be some information missing.
It does not have to be witnessed by a doctor or solicitor.1) An individual with capacity (i.e. of sound mind) decides to set it up, completes the forms and has it witnessed by a doctor or a solicitor.
2) An application is made to the court of protection (i.e. judges and lawyers) to make a decision on behalf of an individual without capacity.
It’s seems unlikely that a bunch of unrelated people would hand over control of their finances to a random. It also seems unlikely that a court would do the same. There must be some information missing.
Any regular Joe can act as a witness.
Care Act 2014:
https://www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/health...
Check the link for financial abuse.
I don't know enough about the Shipman case without checking, but was that about his vulnerable patients signing stuff over to him or him just being on a power trip and ending people's lives because he could?
carinaman said:
vonhosen said:
DeWar said:
There are only two ways of gaining lasting power of attorney for either health/welfare or finances.
1) An individual with capacity (i.e. of sound mind) decides to set it up, completes the forms and has it witnessed by a doctor or a solicitor.
2) An application is made to the court of protection (i.e. judges and lawyers) to make a decision on behalf of an individual without capacity.
It’s seems unlikely that a bunch of unrelated people would hand over control of their finances to a random. It also seems unlikely that a court would do the same. There must be some information missing.
It does not have to be witnessed by a doctor or solicitor.1) An individual with capacity (i.e. of sound mind) decides to set it up, completes the forms and has it witnessed by a doctor or a solicitor.
2) An application is made to the court of protection (i.e. judges and lawyers) to make a decision on behalf of an individual without capacity.
It’s seems unlikely that a bunch of unrelated people would hand over control of their finances to a random. It also seems unlikely that a court would do the same. There must be some information missing.
Any regular Joe can act as a witness.
The important person as far as safeguarding is concerned is the 'Certificate Provider' who is to make sure the 'Donor' is aware & happy with what is going on. The Certificate Provider doesn't have to be a solicitor or doctor either.
If you have safe guarding concerns with regards to a Donor's interests contact the Office of the Public Guardian.
The care quality commission website will tell you if the home is properly registered (and provide access to inspection reports). I’d suspect it will be, it’s hard to get away with an unregistered home these days.
If you’ve evidence of a crime (including fraud) then it’s a job for the police. If you’ve evidence of poor quality of care the local authority.
Nothing you’ve posted makes me think there’s necessarily a problem here, you may know more than you have posted. It is a sector under great pressure right now which might push some to desperation (I wouldn’t fall of my chair with surprise if one of the UK’s bigger care home operators fails off the back of Covid, some are fairly highly leveraged ). Also as regulation and compliance has built over the years it’s the smaller operators without the economies of scale to deal with the regulatory burden who have found it hard and are under real pressure.
We’re talking about protection of the vulnerable here so if you have something then report to police and / or local authority and let them follow due process.
If you’ve evidence of a crime (including fraud) then it’s a job for the police. If you’ve evidence of poor quality of care the local authority.
Nothing you’ve posted makes me think there’s necessarily a problem here, you may know more than you have posted. It is a sector under great pressure right now which might push some to desperation (I wouldn’t fall of my chair with surprise if one of the UK’s bigger care home operators fails off the back of Covid, some are fairly highly leveraged ). Also as regulation and compliance has built over the years it’s the smaller operators without the economies of scale to deal with the regulatory burden who have found it hard and are under real pressure.
We’re talking about protection of the vulnerable here so if you have something then report to police and / or local authority and let them follow due process.
Edited by djohnson on Sunday 19th July 10:57
Edited by djohnson on Sunday 19th July 10:58
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