Is driving a car on cloned plates a criminal offence?
Discussion
A friend's niece has received 3 FPNs in the past week. Same reg number, make, model and colour, but the photos show a car without the roof bars that her's has, and her number plates include the supplying dealers logo, while the plates in the photo don't.
She phoned 101. They gave her a "crime number", but told her they wouldn't investigate, as it's not a criminal offence. Is she just being fobbed off by the clueless civvy call handler, or is it really not an offence that the police will pursue?
Worth reporting in person to her local cop shop?
She phoned 101. They gave her a "crime number", but told her they wouldn't investigate, as it's not a criminal offence. Is she just being fobbed off by the clueless civvy call handler, or is it really not an offence that the police will pursue?
Worth reporting in person to her local cop shop?
clockworks said:
A friend's niece has received 3 FPNs in the past week. Same reg number, make, model and colour, but the photos show a car without the roof bars that her's has, and her number plates include the supplying dealers logo, while the plates in the photo don't.
She phoned 101. They gave her a "crime number", but told her they wouldn't investigate, as it's not a criminal offence. Is she just being fobbed off by the clueless civvy call handler, or is it really not an offence that the police will pursue?
Worth reporting in person to her local cop shop?
How do you suggest they pursue it? What makes you believe that logging something on CAD will not result in a marker being placed on the VRM? To make fullly sure this happens, she should inform the DVLA. Tell your friend to be prepared to be stopped by ANPR-equipped police vehicles in the near future.She phoned 101. They gave her a "crime number", but told her they wouldn't investigate, as it's not a criminal offence. Is she just being fobbed off by the clueless civvy call handler, or is it really not an offence that the police will pursue?
Worth reporting in person to her local cop shop?
Pothole said:
How do you suggest they pursue it? What makes you believe that logging something on CAD will not result in a marker being placed on the VRM? To make fullly sure this happens, she should inform the DVLA. Tell your friend to be prepared to be stopped by ANPR-equipped police vehicles in the near future.
I don't expect the police to actually do anything much, apart from keeping an eye out for the car, and giving her something that she can send off to deny responsibility for the FPNs. Telling her that it isn't a crime made her think they weren't interested at all.What's the difference between a CAD number and a crime reference?
I'll suggest that she contacts DVLA.
EDIT: Googled it, and it seems that getting a CAD number means it's been logged. Fair enough.
Edited by clockworks on Thursday 23 July 16:45
The old bill can put an information marker on the pnc which also triggers an alert on ANPR that the plate has been cloned. Make sure she gets that's done and then carries around proof of ID and vehicle ownership when driving her car. Hopefully the cloned one will be stopped and dealt with in a short time but she may also be pulled over aswell.
Far Cough said:
The old bill can put an information marker on the pnc which also triggers an alert on ANPR that the plate has been cloned. Make sure she gets that's done and then carries around proof of ID and vehicle ownership when driving her car. Hopefully the cloned one will be stopped and dealt with in a short time but she may also be pulled over aswell.
May be obvious but don't leave the proof of ownership in the car.Back in 1993 I bought a stolen recovered 1991 Sierra Sapphire that was apparently wearing a cloned plate.
It seems my 2.0GLSi had the plate from a 1.8LX and was stolen but unrecovered - until then!
I was "invited" to take it to be inspected by a Met Police vehicle examiner who agreed it was a genuine car, just not the one it was purported to be!
I never got charged with any offence but getting it all sorted out took ages and was a major PITA.
It seems my 2.0GLSi had the plate from a 1.8LX and was stolen but unrecovered - until then!
I was "invited" to take it to be inspected by a Met Police vehicle examiner who agreed it was a genuine car, just not the one it was purported to be!
I never got charged with any offence but getting it all sorted out took ages and was a major PITA.
Has anyone else ever had to report their number plates being stolen? HARD WORK just trying to get a crime reference number an acknowledgement of the time/date that the plates were found to be missing.
There is a specific offence for not displaying a number plate which is a fine of up to £1000 but caught using cloned plates is whole new level of potential repercussions.
For the theft of another set of plates to give the impression your car has mot/tax/insurance you can be fined, going further and being found to have purchased the number plates knowing full well what you are doing is a significantly larger fine , using cloned plates /forged documents to sell a car can with additional factors lead to jail time.
There is a specific offence for not displaying a number plate which is a fine of up to £1000 but caught using cloned plates is whole new level of potential repercussions.
For the theft of another set of plates to give the impression your car has mot/tax/insurance you can be fined, going further and being found to have purchased the number plates knowing full well what you are doing is a significantly larger fine , using cloned plates /forged documents to sell a car can with additional factors lead to jail time.
clockworks said:
Pothole said:
How do you suggest they pursue it? What makes you believe that logging something on CAD will not result in a marker being placed on the VRM? To make fullly sure this happens, she should inform the DVLA. Tell your friend to be prepared to be stopped by ANPR-equipped police vehicles in the near future.
I don't expect the police to actually do anything much, apart from keeping an eye out for the car, and giving her something that she can send off to deny responsibility for the FPNs. Telling her that it isn't a crime made her think they weren't interested at all.What's the difference between a CAD number and a crime reference?
I'll suggest that she contacts DVLA.
EDIT: Googled it, and it seems that getting a CAD number means it's been logged. Fair enough.
Edited by clockworks on Thursday 23 July 16:45
A crime reference is given when a crime is recorded according to Home Office Counting Rules & Recording Standards. If a police call handler tells someone that no crime has been committed, what they mean is that according to the scenario presented the requirements for recording a crime according to the aforementioned have not been met. I often say just that, but then have to rephrase it for many because they don't understand the language.
Why is the default position always to question the knowledge and ability of the trained professional on the other end of the phone line rather than to acknowledge that they almost certainly know more than we do and have equally almost certainly dealt with the specific situation we're calling about many more times then we have? Is it so difficult to admit that someone employed in a police contact centre/control room knows more about crime than the average law-abiding Doris?
Pothole said:
This attitude: "Telling her that it isn't a crime made her think they weren't interested at all." is really frustrating for those of us involved in crime recording and investigation.
A crime reference is given when a crime is recorded according to Home Office Counting Rules & Recording Standards. If a police call handler tells someone that no crime has been committed, what they mean is that according to the scenario presented the requirements for recording a crime according to the aforementioned have not been met. I often say just that, but then have to rephrase it for many because they don't understand the language.
Why is the default position always to question the knowledge and ability of the trained professional on the other end of the phone line rather than to acknowledge that they almost certainly know more than we do and have equally almost certainly dealt with the specific situation we're calling about many more times then we have? Is it so difficult to admit that someone employed in a police contact centre/control room knows more about crime than the average law-abiding Doris?
Well, if it's a common occurrence that members of the public don't understand what 101 call handlers are saying, maybe they need a bit more training in customer service, and some changes in their scripts?A crime reference is given when a crime is recorded according to Home Office Counting Rules & Recording Standards. If a police call handler tells someone that no crime has been committed, what they mean is that according to the scenario presented the requirements for recording a crime according to the aforementioned have not been met. I often say just that, but then have to rephrase it for many because they don't understand the language.
Why is the default position always to question the knowledge and ability of the trained professional on the other end of the phone line rather than to acknowledge that they almost certainly know more than we do and have equally almost certainly dealt with the specific situation we're calling about many more times then we have? Is it so difficult to admit that someone employed in a police contact centre/control room knows more about crime than the average law-abiding Doris?
I've only ever called 101 myself once, to report a "hit and run" on a courtesy car that I had parked in a care home carpark. I saw it happen, knew who did it (the care home's gardener), and phoned 101 to report it and get a reference number for insurance so that I could get my excess back. I explained all the details.
The call handler told me I needed to report it in person at the local police station.
I went to the police station, and was told that it wasn't a police matter, as the care home car park (open for public access) wasn't considered to be a public place.
Waste of my time, given bad information by 101.
It went through the dealer's insurance (big bill - about £4k), the guy admitted it, and I got my excess back 6 months later.
clockworks said:
Well, if it's a common occurrence that members of the public don't understand what 101 call handlers are saying, maybe they need a bit more training in customer service, and some changes in their scripts? scripts. Hilarious. How big do you think this file would have to be? Sometimes, victims of crime don't understand terminology. Sometimes, they're not very clever, somtimes, no often, they continue to bang on about what "bloke down the pub" or the like has told them, despite having it explained to them that bloke down the pub is mistaken.
I've only ever called 101 myself once, to report a "hit and run" on a courtesy car that I had parked in a care home carpark. I saw it happen, knew who did it (the care home's gardener), and phoned 101 to report it and get a reference number for insurance so that I could get my excess back. I explained all the details.
The call handler told me I needed to report it in person at the local police station. How long ago?
I went to the police station, and was told that it wasn't a police matter, as the care home car park (open for public access) wasn't considered to be a public place. I have no idea if legislation has changed, but now, that info would be incorrect
Waste of my time, given bad information by 101. Sample size of one, not really enough for statistical purposes, is it? But I suppose that will prompt you to believe that nobody you get through to on 101 knows their arse from a hole in the ground, won't it? That's a shame - and before you try and deny that, have a look at your insulting language in your OP
It went through the dealer's insurance (big bill - about £4k), the guy admitted it, and I got my excess back 6 months later.
I've only ever called 101 myself once, to report a "hit and run" on a courtesy car that I had parked in a care home carpark. I saw it happen, knew who did it (the care home's gardener), and phoned 101 to report it and get a reference number for insurance so that I could get my excess back. I explained all the details.
The call handler told me I needed to report it in person at the local police station. How long ago?
I went to the police station, and was told that it wasn't a police matter, as the care home car park (open for public access) wasn't considered to be a public place. I have no idea if legislation has changed, but now, that info would be incorrect
Waste of my time, given bad information by 101. Sample size of one, not really enough for statistical purposes, is it? But I suppose that will prompt you to believe that nobody you get through to on 101 knows their arse from a hole in the ground, won't it? That's a shame - and before you try and deny that, have a look at your insulting language in your OP
It went through the dealer's insurance (big bill - about £4k), the guy admitted it, and I got my excess back 6 months later.
You got your excess back without a magical number? Excellent result.
Pothole said:
clockworks said:
Well, if it's a common occurrence that members of the public don't understand what 101 call handlers are saying, maybe they need a bit more training in customer service, and some changes in their scripts? scripts. Hilarious. How big do you think this file would have to be? Sometimes, victims of crime don't understand terminology. Sometimes, they're not very clever, somtimes, no often, they continue to bang on about what "bloke down the pub" or the like has told them, despite having it explained to them that bloke down the pub is mistaken.
I've only ever called 101 myself once, to report a "hit and run" on a courtesy car that I had parked in a care home carpark. I saw it happen, knew who did it (the care home's gardener), and phoned 101 to report it and get a reference number for insurance so that I could get my excess back. I explained all the details.
The call handler told me I needed to report it in person at the local police station. How long ago?
I went to the police station, and was told that it wasn't a police matter, as the care home car park (open for public access) wasn't considered to be a public place. I have no idea if legislation has changed, but now, that info would be incorrect
Waste of my time, given bad information by 101. Sample size of one, not really enough for statistical purposes, is it? But I suppose that will prompt you to believe that nobody you get through to on 101 knows their arse from a hole in the ground, won't it? That's a shame - and before you try and deny that, have a look at your insulting language in your OP
It went through the dealer's insurance (big bill - about £4k), the guy admitted it, and I got my excess back 6 months later.
I've only ever called 101 myself once, to report a "hit and run" on a courtesy car that I had parked in a care home carpark. I saw it happen, knew who did it (the care home's gardener), and phoned 101 to report it and get a reference number for insurance so that I could get my excess back. I explained all the details.
The call handler told me I needed to report it in person at the local police station. How long ago?
I went to the police station, and was told that it wasn't a police matter, as the care home car park (open for public access) wasn't considered to be a public place. I have no idea if legislation has changed, but now, that info would be incorrect
Waste of my time, given bad information by 101. Sample size of one, not really enough for statistical purposes, is it? But I suppose that will prompt you to believe that nobody you get through to on 101 knows their arse from a hole in the ground, won't it? That's a shame - and before you try and deny that, have a look at your insulting language in your OP
It went through the dealer's insurance (big bill - about £4k), the guy admitted it, and I got my excess back 6 months later.
You got your excess back without a magical number? Excellent result.
FWIW I have found interfaces with the "admin" side of policing including the front desk to be uniformly bad experiences. Inaccurate, fobbing off, generally unimpressive. My experiences of the police actually doing their job have been uniformly good, in fact excellent whether I have been the offender or the offended. But that's presumably all wrong as it's not statistically significant?
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff