Remote Court Hearing
Discussion
Just had an email from the Court informing me, as I had anticipated......" CCMC is listed for hearing on......... the case appears suitable for a remote hearing. The Master proposes it be undertaken using Skype for Business audio or video."
I'm not a technophobe but 1st thoughts are concerns as an L.I.P. and dealing with an e-bundle while concentrating on what is being said, happening on screen etc...
Anyone had any experiences they may wish to share? Thanks in advance.
I'm not a technophobe but 1st thoughts are concerns as an L.I.P. and dealing with an e-bundle while concentrating on what is being said, happening on screen etc...
Anyone had any experiences they may wish to share? Thanks in advance.
Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 29th July 21:20
Ok then you can set a laptop up on the desk or a window in front of the desk so it is like you are looking at the judge. Then you print the bundle and have a hard copy on the desk in front of you so you can thumb through pages etc and you can use the desk to store other docs on the same as if you were in court.
Jasandjules said:
Ok then you can set a laptop up on the desk or a window in front of the desk so it is like you are looking at the judge. Then you print the bundle and have a hard copy on the desk in front of you so you can thumb through pages etc and you can use the desk to store other docs on the same as if you were in court.
My wife is able to do many things and talk at the same time....I may find it very distracting especially if I am talking to a Judge and a barrister 
Not sure if I can have an "assistant" present I've downloaded a few things to read / study so hopefully I'll get a clearer idea of how things will / should go.
Jasandjules said:
Ok then you can set a laptop up on the desk or a window in front of the desk so it is like you are looking at the judge. Then you print the bundle and have a hard copy on the desk in front of you so you can thumb through pages etc and you can use the desk to store other docs on the same as if you were in court.
I couldn't do this and I haven't got a camera on my pc let alone skyp or zoom or whatever. OP ask for an attended hearing.Boosted LS1 said:
I couldn't do this and I haven't got a camera on my pc let alone skyp or zoom or whatever. OP ask for an attended hearing.
Not something I am comfortable with TBH but not sure what reason I could give for refusing but parties can make other proposals.I'll have a good read if this before responding.
https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/0...
Dodsy said:
I did one recently judge was using a speakerphone as he didnt have skype or zoom , worked fine i had the bundle on my PC screen.
That's the way I am leaning.........it does say " Skype for Business audio or video. "Audio only would be a lot easier IMO and as you say, can have PC running at same time..I also use different glasses for reading and PC.
I've experienced this in my McKenzie Friending recently. Total PITA.
We (LiP and I) were served the bundle by the other side (represented), which I believe is standard practice when one side is not represented - we were given a paper copy, which was useful and saved a s
tload of printing and paper and hassle.
You can't have an assistant unless you submit (and are granted by the Judge at the start of proceedings) a McKenzie Friend request. Having anyone else otherwise present is contempt of court, IIRC, and our Judge was not going to take any crap!
What hearing is it? Final? First Dispute Resolution?
Have you submitted all your paperwork? Are you submitting a 'last minute' Position Statement?
My main gripe is that the Barristers can email the Judge direct, whereas LiPs can't - so if you have paper-based evidence to hand that would counter a BS claim in their assertions, for example, you have no direct way of getting it to the Judge on the day because back office take forever to upload email submissions, unless you have it scanned/photographed, named appropriately, and the other side are willing to receive it and send it on during the Hearing, which is a total faff in the limited time most hearings have.
The other option is electronic submission of a 'Document for Filing' (or whatever the back office want it called) and covering note/email in advance, but that means also sending it to the other side (I believe?) and revealing your hand...
There is also the issue that the Judge may well struggle to find electronic copies of documents on the court filing system, either due to large volumes of documents or unintuitive filing naming protocols in place by the back office, so you may need to check if your submissions (if any) have been read.
I think at least a couple of working days is needed for overworked back office staff to upload things to the filing - but I'm not sure if you have to serve on the other side at the same time, or if you can serve separately at 2359 the day before the hearing (like Barristers do...).
The benefit of Audio Only is the other side's legal team can't read your body language (93% of communication) and also (IMHO) it reduces the 'fear' / worry associated with the formal surroundings of the court and expensively-dressed legal types.
In my experience the Judge will dial the parties and create the call, then confirm who is present. If anyone is missing or not responding they will probably wait until they respond and may put you on hold in the meantime.
Does the court and the other side definitely have your telephone number?
A phone with speakerphone capability (that is loud and *good* and not crackling and dropping in/out) is IMO vital - call someone using speakerphone and ask them to check your call quality, perhaps going round and swapping phones before going to different ends of the house, so you can hear how your own phone sounds from the other party's end. It will mean you can also write notes and flick through papers easily with two free hands.
I'm not quite sure how things stand re: laptops - if it's an eBundle then obviously you need one, but I also thought one couldn't use a laptop in actual , physical court...??
We (LiP and I) were served the bundle by the other side (represented), which I believe is standard practice when one side is not represented - we were given a paper copy, which was useful and saved a s
tload of printing and paper and hassle.You can't have an assistant unless you submit (and are granted by the Judge at the start of proceedings) a McKenzie Friend request. Having anyone else otherwise present is contempt of court, IIRC, and our Judge was not going to take any crap!
What hearing is it? Final? First Dispute Resolution?
Have you submitted all your paperwork? Are you submitting a 'last minute' Position Statement?
My main gripe is that the Barristers can email the Judge direct, whereas LiPs can't - so if you have paper-based evidence to hand that would counter a BS claim in their assertions, for example, you have no direct way of getting it to the Judge on the day because back office take forever to upload email submissions, unless you have it scanned/photographed, named appropriately, and the other side are willing to receive it and send it on during the Hearing, which is a total faff in the limited time most hearings have.
The other option is electronic submission of a 'Document for Filing' (or whatever the back office want it called) and covering note/email in advance, but that means also sending it to the other side (I believe?) and revealing your hand...
There is also the issue that the Judge may well struggle to find electronic copies of documents on the court filing system, either due to large volumes of documents or unintuitive filing naming protocols in place by the back office, so you may need to check if your submissions (if any) have been read.
I think at least a couple of working days is needed for overworked back office staff to upload things to the filing - but I'm not sure if you have to serve on the other side at the same time, or if you can serve separately at 2359 the day before the hearing (like Barristers do...).
The benefit of Audio Only is the other side's legal team can't read your body language (93% of communication) and also (IMHO) it reduces the 'fear' / worry associated with the formal surroundings of the court and expensively-dressed legal types.
In my experience the Judge will dial the parties and create the call, then confirm who is present. If anyone is missing or not responding they will probably wait until they respond and may put you on hold in the meantime.
Does the court and the other side definitely have your telephone number?
A phone with speakerphone capability (that is loud and *good* and not crackling and dropping in/out) is IMO vital - call someone using speakerphone and ask them to check your call quality, perhaps going round and swapping phones before going to different ends of the house, so you can hear how your own phone sounds from the other party's end. It will mean you can also write notes and flick through papers easily with two free hands.
I'm not quite sure how things stand re: laptops - if it's an eBundle then obviously you need one, but I also thought one couldn't use a laptop in actual , physical court...??
Edited by RSTurboPaul on Thursday 30th July 01:56
This may seem stupid, but this link, https://skillcrush.com/2015/01/14/video-interview-...
was helpful, when I was preparing for a video interview, especially the section on lighting.
was helpful, when I was preparing for a video interview, especially the section on lighting.
RSTurboPaul said:
I've experienced this in my McKenzie Friending recently. Total PITA.
We (LiP and I) were served the bundle by the other side (represented), which I believe is standard practice when one side is not represented - we were given a paper copy, which was useful and saved a stload of printing and paper and hassle...
e-file is instructed,other than their position paper, I have all the Documents but the references they give them will be different to mine so will have to sort after I get the bundle
You can't have an assistant unless you submit (and are granted by the Judge at the start of proceedings) a McKenzie Friend request. Having anyone else otherwise present is contempt of court, IIRC, and our Judge was not going to take any crap!
I will request permission for the wife to take notes and support
What hearing is it? Final? First Dispute Resolution? 1st Costs and Case Management Hearing in Chancery Court.
Have you submitted all your paperwork? we agreed Draft Orders and the other party submitted them to the Court - except they changed them after we had agreed.. I informed the Court and resubmitted my own!!
Are you submitting a 'last minute' Position Statement? Yes, all prepared and ready to go
My main gripe is that the Barristers can email the Judge direct, whereas LiPs can't - so if you have paper-based evidence to hand that would counter a BS claim in their assertions, for example, you have no direct way of getting it to the Judge on the day because back office take forever to upload email submissions, unless you have it scanned/photographed, named appropriately, and the other side are willing to receive it and send it on during the Hearing, which is a total faff in the limited time most hearings have.
Will bear that in mind thanks...Part of the hearing is about Disclosure of Documents....I already have everything needed except they are refusing to supply some that I know will "undermine their position!!!" The Court Staff have already told me they thought I was the Barrister and the other party have been "advised" to stick to proper procedure and not make it up as they go along (1st yr barrister didn't know about PD51U Pilot scheme and I am now an expert on the subject
The other option is electronic submission of a 'Document for Filing' (or whatever the back office want it called) and covering note/email in advance, but that means also sending it to the other side (I believe?) and revealing your hand...
I already have a Court E-file registration for filing
There is also the issue that the Judge may well struggle to find electronic copies of documents on the court filing system, either due to large volumes of documents or unintuitive filing naming protocols in place by the back office, so you may need to check if your submissions (if any) have been read.
I think at least a couple of working days is needed for overworked back office staff to upload things to the filing - but I'm not sure if you have to serve on the other side at the same time, or if you can serve separately at 2359 the day before the hearing (like Barristers do...).
There will only be my "position statement" which I shall file as required and serve at an agreed time with the other party.
The benefit of Audio Only is the other side's legal team can't read your body language (93% of communication) and also (IMHO) it reduces the 'fear' / worry associated with the formal surroundings of the court and expensively-dressed legal types.
I have met their barrister already....1st year qualified and has never undertaken a Case in the Chancery before.I had to help him on more than 1 occassion.so I actually would prefer the Court setting so the judge can meet / see him as well
In my experience the Judge will dial the parties and create the call, then confirm who is present. If anyone is missing or not responding they will probably wait until they respond and may put you on hold in the meantime.
Does the court and the other side definitely have your telephone number? [yes]
A phone with speakerphone capability (that is loud and *good* and not crackling and dropping in/out) is IMO vital - call someone using speakerphone and ask them to check your call quality, perhaps going round and swapping phones before going to different ends of the house, so you can hear how your own phone sounds from the other party's end. It will mean you can also write notes and flick through papers easily with two free hands.
I was wondering if Audio only Skype?
I'm not quite sure how things stand re: laptops - if it's an eBundle then obviously you need one, but I also thought one couldn't use a laptop in actual , physical court...??
yes e-bundle supplied by the other party so will be hard without my PC
Many thanks for taking the time to post..good luck with your case We (LiP and I) were served the bundle by the other side (represented), which I believe is standard practice when one side is not represented - we were given a paper copy, which was useful and saved a s
tload of printing and paper and hassle... e-file is instructed,other than their position paper, I have all the Documents but the references they give them will be different to mine so will have to sort after I get the bundle
You can't have an assistant unless you submit (and are granted by the Judge at the start of proceedings) a McKenzie Friend request. Having anyone else otherwise present is contempt of court, IIRC, and our Judge was not going to take any crap!
I will request permission for the wife to take notes and support
What hearing is it? Final? First Dispute Resolution? 1st Costs and Case Management Hearing in Chancery Court.
Have you submitted all your paperwork? we agreed Draft Orders and the other party submitted them to the Court - except they changed them after we had agreed.. I informed the Court and resubmitted my own!!
Are you submitting a 'last minute' Position Statement? Yes, all prepared and ready to go
My main gripe is that the Barristers can email the Judge direct, whereas LiPs can't - so if you have paper-based evidence to hand that would counter a BS claim in their assertions, for example, you have no direct way of getting it to the Judge on the day because back office take forever to upload email submissions, unless you have it scanned/photographed, named appropriately, and the other side are willing to receive it and send it on during the Hearing, which is a total faff in the limited time most hearings have.
Will bear that in mind thanks...Part of the hearing is about Disclosure of Documents....I already have everything needed except they are refusing to supply some that I know will "undermine their position!!!" The Court Staff have already told me they thought I was the Barrister and the other party have been "advised" to stick to proper procedure and not make it up as they go along (1st yr barrister didn't know about PD51U Pilot scheme and I am now an expert on the subject
The other option is electronic submission of a 'Document for Filing' (or whatever the back office want it called) and covering note/email in advance, but that means also sending it to the other side (I believe?) and revealing your hand...
I already have a Court E-file registration for filing
There is also the issue that the Judge may well struggle to find electronic copies of documents on the court filing system, either due to large volumes of documents or unintuitive filing naming protocols in place by the back office, so you may need to check if your submissions (if any) have been read.
I think at least a couple of working days is needed for overworked back office staff to upload things to the filing - but I'm not sure if you have to serve on the other side at the same time, or if you can serve separately at 2359 the day before the hearing (like Barristers do...).
There will only be my "position statement" which I shall file as required and serve at an agreed time with the other party
. The benefit of Audio Only is the other side's legal team can't read your body language (93% of communication) and also (IMHO) it reduces the 'fear' / worry associated with the formal surroundings of the court and expensively-dressed legal types.
I have met their barrister already....1st year qualified and has never undertaken a Case in the Chancery before.I had to help him on more than 1 occassion.so I actually would prefer the Court setting so the judge can meet / see him as well
In my experience the Judge will dial the parties and create the call, then confirm who is present. If anyone is missing or not responding they will probably wait until they respond and may put you on hold in the meantime.
Does the court and the other side definitely have your telephone number? [yes]
A phone with speakerphone capability (that is loud and *good* and not crackling and dropping in/out) is IMO vital - call someone using speakerphone and ask them to check your call quality, perhaps going round and swapping phones before going to different ends of the house, so you can hear how your own phone sounds from the other party's end. It will mean you can also write notes and flick through papers easily with two free hands.
I was wondering if Audio only Skype?
I'm not quite sure how things stand re: laptops - if it's an eBundle then obviously you need one, but I also thought one couldn't use a laptop in actual , physical court...??
yes e-bundle supplied by the other party so will be hard without my PC
Edited by RSTurboPaul on Thursday 30th July 01:56
Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 30th July 10:05
Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 30th July 10:12
daqinggregg said:
This may seem stupid, but this link, https://skillcrush.com/2015/01/14/video-interview-...
was helpful, when I was preparing for a video interview, especially the section on lighting.
was helpful, when I was preparing for a video interview, especially the section on lighting.
catweasle said:
stuff
Many thanks for taking the time to post..good luck with your case
Get some of those plastic tab things that stick onto the edge of the page, and a permanent sharpie with a 'normal' tip on it so you can write reference numbers and/or notes on them - your docs should be in the bundle they produce so you may not need to tab your own docs up, but the tabs can be useful to pick out the locations of key points you are referring to in whichever document you are referencing. You can even colour code them into good/bad things you need to push/defend!Many thanks for taking the time to post..good luck with your case
[EDIT: Wait, you only have an eBundle so can't tab it up... lol)
Submit a McKenzie Friend request to the court - we just did a letter to the judge IIRC but used the 'standard template' from the top of the witness statement, where you reference the court and the case number and the parties etc., so it looked well presented!
Search for:
mckenzie-friends-practice-guidance-july-2010.pdf (here, I think: https://www.judiciary.uk/publications/mckenzie-fri... )
and
notice_of_mckenzie_friend.pdf (e.g. http://gmfcf.org/uploads/5/5/4/0/55401763/notice_o... )
on the interweb - the former is the guidance so you know what a MF can do, the latter is what I believe is a standard form usually submitted in person at the court. You could attach it to the aforementioned letter
re: Skype - do you have a laptop with Skype for Business already on it? I tried to have an interview via Skype for business on a personal laptop with only the Skype app on it - it wouldn't let me dial in unless I added credit, so either I'm a moron or personal users can't get onto SfB and you risk not being able to 'attend'! Personally speaking, I would prefer a plain phone call but I get what you are saying about seeing the other side squirm
lolAs a total layman I'm not sure I can comment on much else TBH - it sounds like you have everything in hand and are going to do well when you get there, so thank you for my kind wishes and I am sending you some back!
Edited by RSTurboPaul on Friday 31st July 01:04
If family proceedings then see this guide for litigants in person:
https://resolution.org.uk/looking-for-help/splitti...
https://resolution.org.uk/looking-for-help/splitti...
agtlaw said:
If family proceedings then see this guide for litigants in person:
https://resolution.org.uk/looking-for-help/splitti...
Many thanks but this is a Chancery case.https://resolution.org.uk/looking-for-help/splitti...
RSTurboPaul said:
Get some of those plastic tab things that stick onto the edge of the page, and a permanent sharpie with a 'normal' tip on it so you can write reference numbers and/or notes on them - your docs should be in the bundle they produce so you may not need to tab your own docs up, but the tabs can be useful to pick out the locations of key points you are referring to in whichever document you are referencing. You can even colour code them into good/bad things you need to push/defend!
[EDIT: Wait, you only have an eBundle so can't tab it up... lol)
Was thinking of using wife's latptop for e-file bundle and my PC for the hearing so she can find the documents as needed and I'm not distracted
Submit a McKenzie Friend request to the court - we just did a letter to the judge IIRC but used the 'standard template' from the top of the witness statement, where you reference the court and the case number and the parties etc., so it looked well presented!
Search for:
mckenzie-friends-practice-guidance-july-2010.pdf (here, I think: https://www.judiciary.uk/publications/mckenzie-fri... )
and
notice_of_mckenzie_friend.pdf (e.g. http://gmfcf.org/uploads/5/5/4/0/55401763/notice_o... )
on the interweb - the former is the guidance so you know what a MF can do, the latter is what I believe is a standard form usually submitted in person at the court. You could attach it to the aforementioned letter
Downloaded.........Thanks for that
re: Skype - do you have a laptop with Skype for Business already on it? I tried to have an interview via Skype for business on a personal laptop with only the Skype app on it - it wouldn't let me dial in unless I added credit, so either I'm a moron or personal users can't get onto SfB and you risk not being able to 'attend'! Personally speaking, I would prefer a plain phone call but I get what you are saying about seeing the other side squirm lol
No Skype, Business or otherwise, I believe Court send a link to download and I join as a guest.... I believe it may also be possible to do file sharing if needed
As a total layman I'm not sure I can comment on much else TBH - it sounds like you have everything in hand and are going to do well when you get there, so thank you for my kind wishes and I am sending you some back!
The email clearly states Video or Audio or suggest alternative, I shall agree to Audio and request wife as McK friend.... I believe the other side are responsible for making all the arrangements, supply the bundle etc and arrange a test run, but given their poor performance so far it will interesting to see how they get on. [EDIT: Wait, you only have an eBundle so can't tab it up... lol)
Was thinking of using wife's latptop for e-file bundle and my PC for the hearing so she can find the documents as needed and I'm not distracted
Submit a McKenzie Friend request to the court - we just did a letter to the judge IIRC but used the 'standard template' from the top of the witness statement, where you reference the court and the case number and the parties etc., so it looked well presented!
Search for:
mckenzie-friends-practice-guidance-july-2010.pdf (here, I think: https://www.judiciary.uk/publications/mckenzie-fri... )
and
notice_of_mckenzie_friend.pdf (e.g. http://gmfcf.org/uploads/5/5/4/0/55401763/notice_o... )
on the interweb - the former is the guidance so you know what a MF can do, the latter is what I believe is a standard form usually submitted in person at the court. You could attach it to the aforementioned letter
Downloaded.........Thanks for that
re: Skype - do you have a laptop with Skype for Business already on it? I tried to have an interview via Skype for business on a personal laptop with only the Skype app on it - it wouldn't let me dial in unless I added credit, so either I'm a moron or personal users can't get onto SfB and you risk not being able to 'attend'! Personally speaking, I would prefer a plain phone call but I get what you are saying about seeing the other side squirm
lolNo Skype, Business or otherwise, I believe Court send a link to download and I join as a guest.... I believe it may also be possible to do file sharing if needed
As a total layman I'm not sure I can comment on much else TBH - it sounds like you have everything in hand and are going to do well when you get there, so thank you for my kind wishes and I am sending you some back!
Edited by RSTurboPaul on Friday 31st July 01:04
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