Car Ownership Dilemma
Discussion
I've just acquired a 1971 Karmann Ghia. It belonged to my best friend who sadly passed away last December.
He bought the car in 2012 after it had been 'lost' for 15-20 years. The previous owner registered the car in 1991 but a short while later the car was put into a lock-up garage and 'forgotten' about. When the garages were demolished in about 2010 the demolition company were told that anything they found they could keep as the owners of the garages had been given about a year's notice to empty them. The owner of the demolition company held onto the Karmann for a couple of years before my friend bought it from him. There was obviously no V5 etc. but my friend had no problem registering it in his name.
The V5 shows the name of the previous owner from 1991 and i did a quick internet search and think that i have identified them and i would love to get in touch with them to find out what happened. I see two possible scenarios: -
1 - The owner locked the car away and forgot about it for some reason and as the garages were demolished could never find out where the car went if they remembered (20 years later) where they had left it! Highly unlikely, i know.
2 - The car was stolen and put in the garage and forgotten about. The more likely option.
My question is ; if the car was stolen 25+ years ago could the owner reclaim it or, assuming the insurance paid out, could the insurance company reclaim it?
Or, if the owner had 'forgotten' about it and had never sold it, could they reclaim it if i told them that i now had it?
Even weirder is that the previous registered address is 200 metres from where i lived the first seven years of my life in South London.
He bought the car in 2012 after it had been 'lost' for 15-20 years. The previous owner registered the car in 1991 but a short while later the car was put into a lock-up garage and 'forgotten' about. When the garages were demolished in about 2010 the demolition company were told that anything they found they could keep as the owners of the garages had been given about a year's notice to empty them. The owner of the demolition company held onto the Karmann for a couple of years before my friend bought it from him. There was obviously no V5 etc. but my friend had no problem registering it in his name.
The V5 shows the name of the previous owner from 1991 and i did a quick internet search and think that i have identified them and i would love to get in touch with them to find out what happened. I see two possible scenarios: -
1 - The owner locked the car away and forgot about it for some reason and as the garages were demolished could never find out where the car went if they remembered (20 years later) where they had left it! Highly unlikely, i know.
2 - The car was stolen and put in the garage and forgotten about. The more likely option.
My question is ; if the car was stolen 25+ years ago could the owner reclaim it or, assuming the insurance paid out, could the insurance company reclaim it?
Or, if the owner had 'forgotten' about it and had never sold it, could they reclaim it if i told them that i now had it?
Even weirder is that the previous registered address is 200 metres from where i lived the first seven years of my life in South London.
mickjackiewicz said:
I've just acquired a 1971 Karmann Ghia. It belonged to my best friend who sadly passed away last December.
He bought the car in 2012 after it had been 'lost' for 15-20 years. The previous owner registered the car in 1991 but a short while later the car was put into a lock-up garage and 'forgotten' about. When the garages were demolished in about 2010 the demolition company were told that anything they found they could keep as the owners of the garages had been given about a year's notice to empty them. The owner of the demolition company held onto the Karmann for a couple of years before my friend bought it from him. There was obviously no V5 etc. but my friend had no problem registering it in his name.
The V5 shows the name of the previous owner from 1991 and i did a quick internet search and think that i have identified them and i would love to get in touch with them to find out what happened. I see two possible scenarios: -
1 - The owner locked the car away and forgot about it for some reason and as the garages were demolished could never find out where the car went if they remembered (20 years later) where they had left it! Highly unlikely, i know.
2 - The car was stolen and put in the garage and forgotten about. The more likely option.
My question is ; if the car was stolen 25+ years ago could the owner reclaim it or, assuming the insurance paid out, could the insurance company reclaim it?
Or, if the owner had 'forgotten' about it and had never sold it, could they reclaim it if i told them that i now had it?
Even weirder is that the previous registered address is 200 metres from where i lived the first seven years of my life in South London.
This could be difficult...He bought the car in 2012 after it had been 'lost' for 15-20 years. The previous owner registered the car in 1991 but a short while later the car was put into a lock-up garage and 'forgotten' about. When the garages were demolished in about 2010 the demolition company were told that anything they found they could keep as the owners of the garages had been given about a year's notice to empty them. The owner of the demolition company held onto the Karmann for a couple of years before my friend bought it from him. There was obviously no V5 etc. but my friend had no problem registering it in his name.
The V5 shows the name of the previous owner from 1991 and i did a quick internet search and think that i have identified them and i would love to get in touch with them to find out what happened. I see two possible scenarios: -
1 - The owner locked the car away and forgot about it for some reason and as the garages were demolished could never find out where the car went if they remembered (20 years later) where they had left it! Highly unlikely, i know.
2 - The car was stolen and put in the garage and forgotten about. The more likely option.
My question is ; if the car was stolen 25+ years ago could the owner reclaim it or, assuming the insurance paid out, could the insurance company reclaim it?
Or, if the owner had 'forgotten' about it and had never sold it, could they reclaim it if i told them that i now had it?
Even weirder is that the previous registered address is 200 metres from where i lived the first seven years of my life in South London.
It would appear that the owner of the garages have disposed of someone's property.
It has then been sold on and purchased in good faith.
If the car was originally stolen, then it may have been paid out on by the insurance company - so they own it. I guess they would view it as 'an old car' and want to dispose of it - I expect you could buy it cheaply.
If it wasn't paid out on - may be uninsured - then the original owner may well like it back.
Bringing it to their attention will resolve it one way or the other.
Not dealing with it now, if you are to spend significant sums on rebuilds etc, then they might lay claim to it later.
Being honest with the previous owner, and even offering a small sum to 'purchase' it may fly. However, if they were buying a '71 Karmann in '91 we can assume they were treating it as a classic then - so probably interested in it.
No ideas for a name said:
This could be difficult...
It would appear that the owner of the garages have disposed of someone's property.
It has then been sold on and purchased in good faith.
If the car was originally stolen, then it may have been paid out on by the insurance company - so they own it. I guess they would view it as 'an old car' and want to dispose of it - I expect you could buy it cheaply.
If it wasn't paid out on - may be uninsured - then the original owner may well like it back.
Bringing it to their attention will resolve it one way or the other.
Not dealing with it now, if you are to spend significant sums on rebuilds etc, then they might lay claim to it later.
Being honest with the previous owner, and even offering a small sum to 'purchase' it may fly. However, if they were buying a '71 Karmann in '91 we can assume they were treating it as a classic then - so probably interested in it.
When the V5 was applied for nothing was flagged and I've now transferred it without problem. If it was an insurance write-off then I would have thought it would be classified as Cat D? The car has also been insured since 2012 and nothing was flagged by the insurance companies so I'm assuming that it's not on their database.It would appear that the owner of the garages have disposed of someone's property.
It has then been sold on and purchased in good faith.
If the car was originally stolen, then it may have been paid out on by the insurance company - so they own it. I guess they would view it as 'an old car' and want to dispose of it - I expect you could buy it cheaply.
If it wasn't paid out on - may be uninsured - then the original owner may well like it back.
Bringing it to their attention will resolve it one way or the other.
Not dealing with it now, if you are to spend significant sums on rebuilds etc, then they might lay claim to it later.
Being honest with the previous owner, and even offering a small sum to 'purchase' it may fly. However, if they were buying a '71 Karmann in '91 we can assume they were treating it as a classic then - so probably interested in it.
Why would this be any different to the TV program where they sell the contents of storage units that people have "forgotten" about?
Surely after so many years it becomes finders keepers?
There is no such thing as finders keepers. All movable property is owned. There is no magical period after which property magically transfers, by magic, to someone else. Property that is truly abandoned ends up being owned by a very old lady who lives in several very big houses.
As for V5s: irrelevant.
Look at a V5. Any V5. EVERY V5. There are very clear and simple words on it. Words about what it is NOT proof of. So, nope, nothing gets flagged when there is a change in the name and/or address of the person who is the keeper of the car and is responsible for taxing or SORNing it.
As for V5s: irrelevant.
Look at a V5. Any V5. EVERY V5. There are very clear and simple words on it. Words about what it is NOT proof of. So, nope, nothing gets flagged when there is a change in the name and/or address of the person who is the keeper of the car and is responsible for taxing or SORNing it.
Breadvan72 said:
What would be immoral about the true owner asserting ownership, especially if, as the OP suspects, the car was stolen? The owner's claim would have both legal and moral merit.
This thread is odd. I am with BV (welcome back after your PH holiday). How can people think it is okay to take ownership of something when they suspect it isn't right. If the OP thought it was fine, he wouldn't have started the thread.The most likely situation here is the car is stolen.
The OP may want the car either due to its value (Hagerty suggests a valuation of £6k - £9k fair-good), or sentimental reasons as it was his friends... but none of that gives legitimate a claim to it.
BV can answer this - If the OP's friend bought the car in good faith, does that mean he now takes ownership, and the 'finder' (garage demolition company) is on the hook for taking it away? Not sure if that only applies if it is purchased from a dealer (or if I in fact made it up as a thing in my head).
As I see it, the correct way to deal with it is to contact the 'previous owner' shown on the V5.
You will get the story as to its history, and they may allow you to make an offer to purchase it.
After all this time, that original owner may not even be around... attempting to contact them has the potential for some upset.
Check the electoral roll first to see at least if the person is still around at that address.
If you assume ownership, spend thousands on tidying it up (if it needs it), you run a huge risk of this coming to light in the future and the original owner appearing, saying thanks for the free refurb and storage, I will take it home now.
If it was stolen, they'll have been compensated by their insurance company. They may even have bought another Karmann Ghia. The OP's car would, presumably, be the legal property of the insurance company, but I doubt the insurer would be too concerned about claiming it back from the OP, so no real issue there.
There's always a chance it wasn't insured, but that chance is slim.
Anyway. Presumably an HPI check would confirm whether or not it was ever stolen sometime during the 90s, and set the OP's mind at ease.
There's always a chance it wasn't insured, but that chance is slim.
Anyway. Presumably an HPI check would confirm whether or not it was ever stolen sometime during the 90s, and set the OP's mind at ease.
mickjackiewicz said:
When the V5 was applied for nothing was flagged and I've now transferred it without problem. If it was an insurance write-off then I would have thought it would be classified as Cat D?
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