Penalty Charge Notice - but I had clearly displayed a ticket

[shopper150]

I received a PCN in a council pay and display car park on Saturday. I had clearly displayed my ticket, and taken photo's of the ticket in situ before I left my vehicle. On my return, there was a PCN on the passenger wiper. My ticket was displayed at the top of the driver side.

The photos available on the council's web portal show all the photos taken from the passenger side of the vehicle, and the ticket can be seen in situ on the driver's side.

I have made informal representations to the council online, together with my own photos. They have refused to cancel the ticket because "Before giving Penalty Charge Notices, our Civil Enforcement Officers check for any parking items displayed and record the details. The Civil Enforcement Officer saw no Pay & Display ticket. This can happen, for example, when people forget to display Pay & Display tickets or when Pay & Display tickets fall off windscreens. It is unfortunate if this happened with you, but a Pay & Display ticket is only valid if it is displayed so that a Civil Enforcement Officer can see all its details. The enclosed photos help to show why your Penalty Charge Notice was given."
They do not make any reference to the photos I enclosed showing the ticket was displayed.

I'm frustrated at the time and effort this seems like it's going to take to sort out. They are now saying I can only appeal once 28 days have passed and they send a formal notice to the vehicle's registered keeper (me!).

Can anyone offer any help or advice?

[Ham_and_Jam]

shopper150 said:

I received a PCN in a council pay and display car park on Saturday. I had clearly displayed my ticket, and taken photo's of the ticket in situ before I left my vehicle. On my return, there was a PCN on the passenger wiper. My ticket was displayed at the top of the driver side.

The photos available on the council's web portal show all the photos taken from the passenger side of the vehicle, and the ticket can be seen in situ on the driver's side.

I have made informal representations to the council online, together with my own photos. They have refused to cancel the ticket because "Before giving Penalty Charge Notices, our Civil Enforcement Officers check for any parking items displayed and record the details. The Civil Enforcement Officer saw no Pay & Display ticket. This can happen, for example, when people forget to display Pay & Display tickets or when Pay & Display tickets fall off windscreens. It is unfortunate if this happened with you, but a Pay & Display ticket is only valid if it is displayed so that a Civil Enforcement Officer can see all its details. The enclosed photos help to show why your Penalty Charge Notice was given."
They do not make any reference to the photos I enclosed showing the ticket was displayed.

I'm frustrated at the time and effort this seems like it's going to take to sort out. They are now saying I can only appeal once 28 days have passed and they send a formal notice to the vehicle's registered keeper (me!).

Can anyone offer any help or advice?

Are you saying that the ticket you purchased can be clearly seen in the pictures taken by the civil enforcement officer?

If so I would imagine this will he a clear cut win for you at an appeal.

[kestral]

Photos should have been taken at the time by the parking person issuing the notice.

[Hashtaggggg]

Appeal.

You have time dated photos and so does the enforcement officer.

[Countdown]

Hashtaggggg said:

Appeal.

You have time dated photos and so does the enforcement officer.

Assuming the OP took photos on a mobile would they be time-dated?

It doesn't matter - if the ticket can be seen in the PEO's photos and the OP HAS the ticket I can't see any reason why it's not a cut and dried case.

[jeeperz0]

I had exactly this too, twice. I think it is the typical of the scummy way the parking enforcement companies carry on.

My ticket could be seen in the parking company's photos. Complicated because you can never actually contact anyone at the company even the photos on their website could only be viewed once, but luckily I screenshotted them.

Eventually sent a signed for letter to their address and they were good enough to say they would not be following up on the PCN, no apology or anything else. They are the lowest of the low.

[riskyj]

Countdown said:

Assuming the OP took photos on a mobile would they be time-dated?

Yes, should be stored in the image EXIF data.

[anonymous-user]

shopper150 said:

I received a PCN in a council pay and display car park on Saturday

jeeperz0 said:

I had exactly this too, twice. I think it is the typical of the scummy way the parking enforcement companies carry on.

My ticket could be seen in the parking company's photos. Complicated because you can never actually contact anyone at the company even the photos on their website could only be viewed once, but luckily I screenshotted them.

Eventually sent a signed for letter to their address and they were good enough to say they would not be following up on the PCN, no apology or anything else. They are the lowest of the low.

The OPs was council. Not quite a 'scummy parking enforcement company'?

[dhutch]

Fight it. Win. Post back here.

[MintyUFB]

I had a similar experience many years ago. Ceo had taken pics from every angle taking great care to avoid getting my clearly displayed ticket in them. Appealed but was ordered to pay on the basis that the ticket was not on the dashboard but the central console. Which was a small shelf in the middle of the dashboard one inch lower. Have not parked in any of that councils car parks for about 20 years now. That'll teach them. Thieving gits

[Gareth79]

riskyj said:

Countdown said:

Assuming the OP took photos on a mobile would they be time-dated?

Yes, should be stored in the image EXIF data.

Most phones have a image info type page which shows the date/time/location along with either the photo or the filename. Obviously this could all be faked really easily, but sending it as evidence to a parking appeal would presumably be perjury, so somebody doing that to escape a few £ fine is probably not common.

[So]

Surely 99% of car parks now have an app that can be used to pay?


I can't even remember the last time I bought a parking ticket!

[bad company]

Appeal and be sure to include your photos. They’ll either back down or you’ll win at tribunal.

[Alucidnation]

This does seem a bit odd.

Maybe the wardens are trying to justify their existence, especially with PBP becoming more and more of a thing?

[Puggit]

Had this in Reading once - and the parking voucher (scratch off job) was clearly visible in their photos. I wrote a very robust rebuttal and threatened legal action.

They backed down very quickly.

[anonymous-user]

speedyguy said:

shopper150 said:

I received a PCN in a council pay and display car park on Saturday

jeeperz0 said:

I had exactly this too, twice. I think it is the typical of the scummy way the parking enforcement companies carry on.

My ticket could be seen in the parking company's photos. Complicated because you can never actually contact anyone at the company even the photos on their website could only be viewed once, but luckily I screenshotted them.

Eventually sent a signed for letter to their address and they were good enough to say they would not be following up on the PCN, no apology or anything else. They are the lowest of the low.

The OPs was council. Not quite a 'scummy parking enforcement company'?

About the same.

[Psycho Warren]

If you have their photos, circle the ticket in a big red circle in paint and send it back to them.

I had something similar where marked bays with a sign were permit only. However some portions had the signs nicked by s (as well as all the street signs) and they didnt replace them for a couple of years. People parked there no problem for years. Then One day I parked there and got a ticket. As it was opposite my flat, I had CCTV over the space. The warden deliberately angled the camera to cut off the top of the sign post where the sign would be. Then claimed there was a sign in place.

The scummy assholes then claimed I doctored the screen shots from my CCTV showing no sign, then theyd obviously come past the area and noted there was no sign, so proceeded to claim the sign was taken (by me) after the ticket was issued.

Submitted CCTV footage of the womble ticketing me clearly showing no sign. They still refused appeal claiming footage could be faked, so went to tribunal and I obviously won.

New sign went up literally the day after they lost. LOL.

So said:

Surely 99% of car parks now have an app that can be used to pay?
I can't even remember the last time I bought a parking ticket!

I found out to my annoyance recently that all my local council car parks are still coin only - despite lockdown and covid and the fact every other car park in the world takes card or has some app online. I rarely carry cash since lockdown so it was a right annoyance.

[Tommo87]

Psycho Warren said:

If you have their photos, circle the ticket in a big red circle in paint and send it back to them.

I had something similar where marked bays with a sign were permit only. However some portions had the signs nicked by s (as well as all the street signs) and they didnt replace them for a couple of years. People parked there no problem for years. Then One day I parked there and got a ticket. As it was opposite my flat, I had CCTV over the space. The warden deliberately angled the camera to cut off the top of the sign post where the sign would be. Then claimed there was a sign in place.

The scummy assholes then claimed I doctored the screen shots from my CCTV showing no sign, then theyd obviously come past the area and noted there was no sign, so proceeded to claim the sign was taken (by me) after the ticket was issued.

Submitted CCTV footage of the womble ticketing me clearly showing no sign. They still refused appeal claiming footage could be faked, so went to tribunal and I obviously won.

New sign went up literally the day after they lost. LOL.

So said:

Surely 99% of car parks now have an app that can be used to pay?
I can't even remember the last time I bought a parking ticket!

I found out to my annoyance recently that all my local council car parks are still coin only - despite lockdown and covid and the fact every other car park in the world takes card or has some app online. I rarely carry cash since lockdown so it was a right annoyance.

Warren? - Is that you Karen??

[Chris32345]

So said:

Surely 99% of car parks now have an app that can be used to pay?


I can't even remember the last time I bought a parking ticket!

A what?

I've never been to a carpark that had a option to pay via a app

Online website or phone yes bit not a app

[shopper150]

Thanks for the responses. I will try and put sone pictures up later.

Does anyone know if you’re reimbursed for expenses if you take the case to adjudicators?
It seems a lot of hassle for £30, but I’m certainly annoyed, it’s the principle.