Help required please
Discussion
On wed 3rd of Nov last year, I was caught by a hand held laser gun doing 46 in a 30. The 30 limit was news to me as having driven this road for some time I understood the limit to be 40. Once stopped, the plod said that it had only just changed that week and at the time didn't have posts up warning you of the change!
Today, Thursday 23rd June, I get home from work to find a big envelope with a summons to court.
Now, the problem is, firstly I have no evidence that there were no signs up to indicate the change (there are now as I clocked them on the way home from Le Mans!!!) The other problem is I have 9 points on my licence already (none in the Tuscan, all in the van and all just over the limit. :rolleyes:).
Do I have any hope of not being banned and/or not being cleaned out by these money grabbers?
I need my licence for work, but also I don't have pots of cash lying about.
Just a thought (hope), on the calibration certificate, the meter number has been crossed out and another written in by hand. Does this cert not have to relate to the original machine, therefore not transferable or am I clutching at straws?
If I bend over and take it, how long is the ban likely to be for or does it depend if the Judge takes a shine to my ringer?
Just one more note to add, I pay my taxes, nat ins, i've NEVER been in trouble with the law, I have a good job, i'm married with a daughter, live in a resonable house with not much debt so why do I feel like a ....... criminal. If I had been speeding past a school or built up area, throw the book at me, but no, a two lane road with fields either side!!!!
I'm pissed off.
Today, Thursday 23rd June, I get home from work to find a big envelope with a summons to court.
Now, the problem is, firstly I have no evidence that there were no signs up to indicate the change (there are now as I clocked them on the way home from Le Mans!!!) The other problem is I have 9 points on my licence already (none in the Tuscan, all in the van and all just over the limit. :rolleyes:).
Do I have any hope of not being banned and/or not being cleaned out by these money grabbers?
I need my licence for work, but also I don't have pots of cash lying about.
Just a thought (hope), on the calibration certificate, the meter number has been crossed out and another written in by hand. Does this cert not have to relate to the original machine, therefore not transferable or am I clutching at straws?
If I bend over and take it, how long is the ban likely to be for or does it depend if the Judge takes a shine to my ringer?
Just one more note to add, I pay my taxes, nat ins, i've NEVER been in trouble with the law, I have a good job, i'm married with a daughter, live in a resonable house with not much debt so why do I feel like a ....... criminal. If I had been speeding past a school or built up area, throw the book at me, but no, a two lane road with fields either side!!!!
I'm pissed off.
).The change from 40 to 30 would require a Traffic Order and to obtain this LA have to put their intention in the Local press. These are generally in the Public Notice Section - and not many motorist read these and should.
Once the Order was made then the 40 limit signs and repeaters would be taken down and 30 substituted.
There is no obligation under the Order and Traffic Signs General Directions to erect informatory signs stating that the limit has been changed, but some LA do.
Two courses open re trying to avoid the 6 month totting ban:
1. Plea to the Magistrates to deal with the current offence and thereby attract a disqualification which should be of a short duration i.e. under 56 days. Left on the Licence will be 9 points which would act as a deterent for the future. The authority for this course of action is Jones v West Mercia Police Authority [2000], or
2. Make a submission to the bench under S 34(2) Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988 that a totting ban (6 months)would cause exceptional hardship and produce some evidence if possible that job, home etc in jeopardy.
In either of these cases, unless very eloquent and know what you are doing, more likely to succeed if a Solicitor well versed in Traffic matters is employed.
DVD
Once the Order was made then the 40 limit signs and repeaters would be taken down and 30 substituted.
There is no obligation under the Order and Traffic Signs General Directions to erect informatory signs stating that the limit has been changed, but some LA do.
Two courses open re trying to avoid the 6 month totting ban:
1. Plea to the Magistrates to deal with the current offence and thereby attract a disqualification which should be of a short duration i.e. under 56 days. Left on the Licence will be 9 points which would act as a deterent for the future. The authority for this course of action is Jones v West Mercia Police Authority [2000], or
2. Make a submission to the bench under S 34(2) Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988 that a totting ban (6 months)would cause exceptional hardship and produce some evidence if possible that job, home etc in jeopardy.
In either of these cases, unless very eloquent and know what you are doing, more likely to succeed if a Solicitor well versed in Traffic matters is employed.
DVD
Thanks all.
Keith, one of my wife's clients is a specialist in this type of case so i'll have a chat with them. Lying down? No way mate, you know me!!!
DVD, I think the 6 month might be difficult to prove as they must have back dated or forgoten to post it. The summons is dated 26 04 05 and the envelope is date stamped 22 06 05!
I might get on better with the 'need my licence' line as i'm self employed and the wife is on maternity leave.
George, you can drive me anytime love!
ooops, Mick's bigger than me. Sorry mate
Keith, one of my wife's clients is a specialist in this type of case so i'll have a chat with them. Lying down? No way mate, you know me!!!
DVD, I think the 6 month might be difficult to prove as they must have back dated or forgoten to post it. The summons is dated 26 04 05 and the envelope is date stamped 22 06 05!
I might get on better with the 'need my licence' line as i'm self employed and the wife is on maternity leave.
George, you can drive me anytime love!
ooops, Mick's bigger than me. Sorry mate
Update, went to court yesterday and came away with my licence avec another three points and £170 lighter.
So, 12 points it is then. Great until I come to insure anything. Still, I spose it's better than a ban as i'd still have to declare the points.
36 in a 30 Sissinghurst high street
81 in a 70 Dorchester bypass
79 in a 70 A21 sevenoaks bypass
46 in a 30 (just reduced from a 40) A21 Bomley common
All between April and November last year.
I must have one of those faces thats just unlucky, I drive (and will continue to do so) what I think to be at normal speeds. Anyone who says they NEVER break the limit is a liar.
Be careful out there Guys, there all out to get us!
Question to the grown ups, is it not practical to just have a hefty fine when you break the limit and get caught? This points system seems a bit silly as I very nearly got banned by being just over the limit. I'd have happily paid even £200 four times because it would have been cheaper than shelling out more than that on increased insurance. They are not interested that you were just over the limit, just in telling you you're a high risk and whacking up your premium.
Any thoughts?
So, 12 points it is then. Great until I come to insure anything. Still, I spose it's better than a ban as i'd still have to declare the points.
36 in a 30 Sissinghurst high street
81 in a 70 Dorchester bypass
79 in a 70 A21 sevenoaks bypass
46 in a 30 (just reduced from a 40) A21 Bomley common
All between April and November last year.
I must have one of those faces thats just unlucky, I drive (and will continue to do so) what I think to be at normal speeds. Anyone who says they NEVER break the limit is a liar.
Be careful out there Guys, there all out to get us!
Question to the grown ups, is it not practical to just have a hefty fine when you break the limit and get caught? This points system seems a bit silly as I very nearly got banned by being just over the limit. I'd have happily paid even £200 four times because it would have been cheaper than shelling out more than that on increased insurance. They are not interested that you were just over the limit, just in telling you you're a high risk and whacking up your premium.
Any thoughts?
kers the lot of em 
Oh, and I forgot to say, apart from feeling like the scum of the earth whilst mixing with the dross in the court waitng room, I was utterly gobsmacked with the treatment of the defendant before me.
Mr Obukyalookylookywatch, from Nigeria, and from no fixed abode was dripping in gold with a shell suit and crocodile skin shoes. Comical.
He could not understand the Clerk or Judge so both parties were getting irrate.
Anyway, he was brought before the court to answer charges of driving with no licence and driving with no insurance.
'Thats the sort of person who needs locking up' says the wife.
Nope....
Wait for it.......
£250 fine and six points on a licence that he doesn't have FFS!!!!!!!!!!!
He paid £5, kissed his teef and then left.
What is that all about?
I paid my fine in full and then thanked the Judge for sparing me.
Makes me ****ing sick.
No wonder people drive around without insurance.
Just gotta save up me 4k now for the Tiv or shall I risk it. Mmmmmmm.
Mr Obukyalookylookywatch, from Nigeria, and from no fixed abode was dripping in gold with a shell suit and crocodile skin shoes. Comical.
He could not understand the Clerk or Judge so both parties were getting irrate.
Anyway, he was brought before the court to answer charges of driving with no licence and driving with no insurance.
'Thats the sort of person who needs locking up' says the wife.
Nope....
Wait for it.......
£250 fine and six points on a licence that he doesn't have FFS!!!!!!!!!!!
He paid £5, kissed his teef and then left.
What is that all about?
I paid my fine in full and then thanked the Judge for sparing me.
Makes me ****ing sick.
No wonder people drive around without insurance.
Just gotta save up me 4k now for the Tiv or shall I risk it. Mmmmmmm.
I don't want to seam contreversial but 46 in a 40 is still speeding so. "But they just changed the limit" is a bollox defence. If you need your license to work learn how to spot cops better or stop speeding. No I am not a speed cameras are good lentalists. I speed I will get caught but when I do I won't moan to the world that it wasn't fair I was breaking the old limit and they made it even lower.
Smart roadster said:
I don't want to seam contreversial but 46 in a 40 is still speeding so. "But they just changed the limit" is a bollox defence. If you need your license to work learn how to spot cops better or stop speeding. No I am not a speed cameras are good lentalists. I speed I will get caught but when I do I won't moan to the world that it wasn't fair I was breaking the old limit and they made it even lower.
I was speeding, I got caught and I plead guilty. End of.
There was no defence.
I was trying to get an idea of the law regarding changes to speed signs, that is all. I was pissed off so I had a little moan. Sorry if I upset you.
Your post doesn't seem controversial but it seems from the tone that you've had a bad day so far.
Yes I need my licence and will continue to drive in exactly the same manner, except for having a device in each car which will spot them for me as i'll be too busy DRIVING.
Remember Duncan, no moaning when YOU get scammed.
ChelseaTractor said:
Question to the grown ups, is it not practical to just have a hefty fine when you break the limit and get caught? This points system seems a bit silly as I very nearly got banned by being just over the limit. I'd have happily paid even £200 four times because it would have been cheaper than shelling out more than that on increased insurance. They are not interested that you were just over the limit, just in telling you you're a high risk and whacking up your premium.
Any thoughts?
The problem with fines only is that it favours rich people - the thought is that they would be able to speed with impunity.
Also it still might not help with insurance - it's still an offence/penalty whether you got points or not.
You do seem to have been rather unlucky, although a colleague of mine has just been done 3 times in 10 days. He's terrified of being banned for a 4th offence - how did you avoid that? I would have expeected that multiple offences in a short space of time would count against you, on the basis that you apparently where not learning
>> Edited by deva link on Friday 22 July 19:21
Smart roadster said:
I don't want to seam contreversial but 46 in a 40 is still speeding so. "But they just changed the limit" is a bollox defence. If you need your license to work learn how to spot cops better or stop speeding. No I am not a speed cameras are good lentalists. I speed I will get caught but when I do I won't moan to the world that it wasn't fair I was breaking the old limit and they made it even lower.
Wow. 10 posts, 2 months and you have instantly gained the ability to jump in with both feet and grab hold of the wrong end of the stick at the same time. I didn`t see any moaning about getting caught, just an enquiry as to if a ban was escapable. Nice helpful advice about spotting cops btw - I believe there is a job waiting for you in the Dept of STBO.
happy motoring
Hi Rob,
Court, not a nice place.
No statement other than a copy of the plods notes.
I did employ a solicitor, he cost me £200 for a letter to be sent to court including half an hour of his time.
He was worth every penny as he could put across the fact that i'd be screwed without a licence far more politly and eloquently than I ever could being an angry builder type bloke!
Working alone it was pretty obvious to them after a few questions that I didn't have anyone else to drive and I needed to be able to pay the mortgage.
Took the wife in too and laid it on thick about newborn babies, maternity leave and 'low pay'.
didn't show them my TVRCC card and hid the bimmer round the corner!!!!
Opted out of spending £500 for a representative of his to attend court.
I'm afraid you'll have to kiss arse like I did and tell them you are very sorry and it won't happen again.
Horrible experience.
Did he nick you there and then or are you waiting for a court summons?
I think if it's the latter, just hope you don't hear anything for 6 months. The court processed mine with a day to spare. Arse.
Good luck.
deva link said:
Question to the grown ups, is it not practical to just have a hefty fine when you break the limit and get caught? This points system seems a bit silly as I very nearly got banned by being just over the limit. I'd have happily paid even £200 four times because it would have been cheaper than shelling out more than that on increased insurance. They are not interested that you were just over the limit, just in telling you you're a high risk and whacking up your premium.
Any thoughts?
The problem with fines only is that it favours rich people - the thought is that they would be able to speed with impunity.
Also it still might not help with insurance - it's still an offence/penalty whether you got points or not.
I can see where you're coming from but a more reliable means test would sort that, would it not?
Until the cars are 'tampered' with and our driving is monitored, god forbid, I think it is a lottery whether you get caught or not.
Most people seem to know it's more about money than safety, so what would be the problem?
I do not know one person who drives at the limit or one person who is a dangerous driver enough for me to be worried about leaving my four month old daughter in their care.
chelsea,
yeah on the spot- he was hiding behind a bush with a radar- 101mph the average over 3 seconds- then he chased me, pulled me over....said i could expect a court summons within 2 weeks- apparently his boss wants the prosecutions forced through quickly..he also said i could probably expect a 28 day- to be fair though, he was a nice bloke and said anything under 90 i would have got away with.
1st offence though and I am gonna plead to keep my licence for employment.
Thanks for the quick reply
yeah on the spot- he was hiding behind a bush with a radar- 101mph the average over 3 seconds- then he chased me, pulled me over....said i could expect a court summons within 2 weeks- apparently his boss wants the prosecutions forced through quickly..he also said i could probably expect a 28 day- to be fair though, he was a nice bloke and said anything under 90 i would have got away with.
1st offence though and I am gonna plead to keep my licence for employment.
Thanks for the quick reply
I suggest copying your post to www.pepipoo.com/
- there are a lot of legal types on there who will pass better comment than most (but not all) on PH could provide.
Prof Beard
- there are a lot of legal types on there who will pass better comment than most (but not all) on PH could provide.
Prof Beard
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