Harpers Law

[rayny]

http://chng.it/FmNm8CtPxC

I know that a minority on here do not support our emergency services, I also know that many will wholeheartedly agree with, and already have signed, this petition - The rest of you, please do the right thing and sign it.

[dhutch]

Can't fault that.

Don't really understand why murder, and or effectively intentional slaughter, isn't a life sentence anyway even if it's not a police officer or other emergency services member.


Daniel

[davek_964]

dhutch said:

Don't really understand why murder, and or effectively intentional slaughter, isn't a life sentence anyway even if it's not a police officer or other emergency services member.
Daniel

I wholeheartedly support the emergency services, and I sympathise with what happened to her husband. Seeing the behaviour of the 3 guys who did this when they were taken into trial was shocking, and they should be locked up for as long as possible.

However, I'm not sure I agree with the proposed law. The emergency services do a much needed job - but the idea that their lives are more valuable than others does not sit well with me. I had a friend who was murdered a couple of years ago - to those close to him, his life was not worth less simply because he wasn't a police / ambulance worker.

[Stay in Bed Instead]

rayny said:

http://chng.it/FmNm8CtPxC

I know that a minority on here do not support our emergency services, I also know that many will wholeheartedly agree with, and already have signed, this petition - The rest of you, please do the right thing and sign it.

And if we don't think it is the right thing to do?

Nobody deserves to be killed, why should the sentence be different based on the victims employment that they voluntarily undertook?

[Fluid]

I have to agree with the two posters above. Why does someone’s choseN employment make them more important than others?

I chose to take on high risk employment (Military) and I am under no illusion I am more important than others.

[Alucidnation]

Stay in Bed Instead said:

rayny said:

http://chng.it/FmNm8CtPxC

I know that a minority on here do not support our emergency services, I also know that many will wholeheartedly agree with, and already have signed, this petition - The rest of you, please do the right thing and sign it.

And if we don't think it is the right thing to do?

Nobody deserves to be killed, why should the sentence be different based on the victims employment that they voluntarily undertook?

Don't sign it then.

[Derek Smith]

Being in the performance of a duty is already an aggravating factor. It is mentioned in sentencing by judges, and not only for those in the emergency services.

I'm all for having sentencing reformed, together with the punishment system in this country. It is failing. However, in the case of Harper. it would appear the evidence for murder was not present. The response should not be punishing someone as if they had been convicted of a more serious offence. If the law is poorly worded, change the law.

[sociopath]

Derek Smith said:

Being in the performance of a duty is already an aggravating factor. It is mentioned in sentencing by judges, and not only for those in the emergency services.

I'm all for having sentencing reformed, together with the punishment system in this country. It is failing. However, in the case of Harper. it would appear the evidence for murder was not present. The response should not be punishing someone as if they had been convicted of a more serious offence. If the law is poorly worded, change the law.

isn't that the point of the petition?

[selym]

Fluid said:

I have to agree with the two posters above. Why does someone’s choseN employment make them more important than others?

I chose to take on high risk employment (Military) and I am under no illusion I am more important than others.

With that attitude you'll never be an officer.

[dhutch]

Alucidnation said:

Don't sign it then.

Or sign it, and start your own petition later. Isn't this like BLM all over again?

As said in the post above, emergency services such as police put themselves and increased risk during their line of duty, both of being hurt intentionally and it appears of their perpetrators getting off more lightly.

Daniel

[Derek Smith]

sociopath said:

isn't that the point of the petition?

Not according to its wording. It's purpose is to overturn a 'miscarriage of justice'.

[junglie]

selym said:

Fluid said:

I have to agree with the two posters above. Why does someone’s choseN employment make them more important than others?

I chose to take on high risk employment (Military) and I am under no illusion I am more important than others.

With that attitude you'll never be an officer.

I think he mixed up his sentence construction.

I suggest he is making the point that he realises his military appointment makes him no more special than anybody else.

[A1VDY]

Fluid said:

I have to agree with the two posters above. Why does someone’s choseN employment make them more important than others?

I chose to take on high risk employment (Military) and I am under no illusion I am more important than others.

Also agree.
I'm ex army (15 years) and never expected preferential treatment. My daughter at16 years old is also now joining up..

[LaurasOtherHalf]

Is there a law I can sign up for to drag the criminals who committed the original crime down a road by tow rope at speed for a couple of miles?

[IJWS15]

Some people are missing the point here.

You may get into a fight with someone and they die accidentally - manslaughter.

The point with this proposal is that you don't accidentally get into a fight with a member of the emergency services. It happens deliberately, wounded pride because the policeman is asking you to leave and you don't want to, too much drink, mates egging you on, trying to steal something etc. you don't accidentally get into a fight with a policeman. Hence everything after that should be treated as a deliberate act so if the policeman dies it is murder.

If it makes a few think twice then it is a good thing.

[davek_964]

IJWS15 said:

Some people are missing the point here.

You may get into a fight with someone and they die accidentally - manslaughter.

The point with this proposal is that you don't accidentally get into a fight with a member of the emergency services. It happens deliberately, wounded pride because the policeman is asking you to leave and you don't want to, too much drink, mates egging you on, trying to steal something etc. you don't accidentally get into a fight with a policeman. Hence everything after that should be treated as a deliberate act so if the policeman dies it is murder.

If it makes a few think twice then it is a good thing.

I fully understand the point. I don't agree with it though.

[dhutch]

IJWS15 said:

The point with this proposal is that you don't accidentally get into a fight with a policeman. Hence everything after that should be treated as a deliberate act so if the policeman dies it is murder.

If it makes a few think twice then it is a good thing.

Well put.

[dhutch]

Sounds like you're the sort of person who this law is for then?

It's not a nice experience being pulled up for something, but more of my engagements with the police have been reasonable than otherwise.

[davek_964]

IJWS15 said:

Some people are missing the point here.

You may get into a fight with someone and they die accidentally - manslaughter.

The point with this proposal is that you don't accidentally get into a fight with a member of the emergency services. It happens deliberately, wounded pride because the policeman is asking you to leave and you don't want to, too much drink, mates egging you on, trying to steal something etc. you don't accidentally get into a fight with a policeman. Hence everything after that should be treated as a deliberate act so if the policeman dies it is murder.

If it makes a few think twice then it is a good thing.

What if a shopkeeper tries to stop somebody stealing and is killed in the ensuing scuffle?
What if a bouncer asks somebody to leave a pub because they're drunk and is killed in the ensuing scuffle?

There are plenty of scenarios where your logic (which I don't actually agree with) would also conclude that the act was deliberate. For me, the fact that the person who died was an emergency service worker should not be relevant.

I think sentences are often too short, and should be revised. I do not think that a front line emergency worker life is worth more than anybody else, despite the challenging and essential jobs they do.

[smn159]

SMG Eddie said:

A change in law won't change how the public deal with po-lice. Increased jail time or not, it's academic,

It's 'police', so why are you using 'po-lice'?

Is it some, 'down with the kids' thing, or are you trying to make a point? If so, what?