Private Sale Deposit Return
Discussion
Hi All, I recently put a deposit down (£500) on a private sale for a car 5hrs away (unseen). I'd agreed that the deposit was to hold the car, however if the car was not as described it would be refundable.
The vehicle being purchased has a potential for a engine defect that may result in it needing a new engine due to excess oil use (2011 VW 180hp Bttdi). The seller initially stated it used no oil, however has as now said it's used half a litre in 2k miles, which while within tolerance could escalate quickly. My intention was to fly to view the car then drive it back. Between the revised oil use statements, the seller has said that it needed two new tyres and wouldn't have been happy for me to drive it home. We had initially agreed a £200 discount for the tyres, however he ended up replacing these at his cost due to the issue just mentioned - ie them being down to the canvas on inner edges.
Due to the potential engine issues I have decided to pull out of the sale as there is just too much risk given his revised statement on oil use. What do you think would be fair re the £500 deposit and technically am I entitled to anything back. I have offered to go 50/50 on tyres, but he doesn't seem happy with that so just want know where I stand really.
Cheers
The vehicle being purchased has a potential for a engine defect that may result in it needing a new engine due to excess oil use (2011 VW 180hp Bttdi). The seller initially stated it used no oil, however has as now said it's used half a litre in 2k miles, which while within tolerance could escalate quickly. My intention was to fly to view the car then drive it back. Between the revised oil use statements, the seller has said that it needed two new tyres and wouldn't have been happy for me to drive it home. We had initially agreed a £200 discount for the tyres, however he ended up replacing these at his cost due to the issue just mentioned - ie them being down to the canvas on inner edges.
Due to the potential engine issues I have decided to pull out of the sale as there is just too much risk given his revised statement on oil use. What do you think would be fair re the £500 deposit and technically am I entitled to anything back. I have offered to go 50/50 on tyres, but he doesn't seem happy with that so just want know where I stand really.
Cheers
He has your money and you are 5 hours away from him. I’d say you have little to no chance of getting your money back unless the seller is feeling particularly charitable.
Even if he did agree to give you your money back do you think he would ever actually return it and if so when?
(Have had a similar experience, but I was the seller, a potentially buyer agreed the sale and put down a holding deposit however I sold the car to someone else who arrived with full cash and took the car on the spot whereas the original guy hadn’t seen the car and seemed to be having trouble raising the rest of the money - I apologised and returned the original potentials money immediately- and felt rubbish about it but you can’t say no to actual cash in the bank vs a promise of cash in a weeks time).
Even if he did agree to give you your money back do you think he would ever actually return it and if so when?
(Have had a similar experience, but I was the seller, a potentially buyer agreed the sale and put down a holding deposit however I sold the car to someone else who arrived with full cash and took the car on the spot whereas the original guy hadn’t seen the car and seemed to be having trouble raising the rest of the money - I apologised and returned the original potentials money immediately- and felt rubbish about it but you can’t say no to actual cash in the bank vs a promise of cash in a weeks time).
I'd say you should have left a £100 deposit, not £500, did you not know of these 'potential issues' before agreeing to buy the car, the internet is full of 'horror stories' about just about every car ever made, but in reality its a tiny percentage that actually have any issues.
If I was the seller I'd be making you sweat and might refund your deposit less the cost of the tyres,but I might not give you anything at all as you seem to be a messer, the oil thing is a red herring, 1/2 litre in 2k is well within VW's specifications and considered normal, surely you should have asked these questions before sending any money?
If I was the seller I'd be making you sweat and might refund your deposit less the cost of the tyres,but I might not give you anything at all as you seem to be a messer, the oil thing is a red herring, 1/2 litre in 2k is well within VW's specifications and considered normal, surely you should have asked these questions before sending any money?
Edited by Jazoli on Monday 24th August 11:41
HI, yes you may well be right. I initially thought an engine with 30k miles would be ok, but after he upped his oil usage amount I spoke to both VW and my local independent VW garage who said not and that consumption falls off a cliff when they go. They had seen 8 failures in the last 12 months between them so, this with his revised oil usage figures is what i based my decision on.
In terms of the deposit size, in hindsight yes i should have left a smaller deposit, but at that point I was more or less sure I was going to buy and its a 32k van so we agreed on £500.
I have in writing the deposit was refundable if not as described, and he tyres I had no choice as he did not say they were down the canvas initially. I think I just need to know if I'm entitled to anything back both legally and morally.
Cheers
In terms of the deposit size, in hindsight yes i should have left a smaller deposit, but at that point I was more or less sure I was going to buy and its a 32k van so we agreed on £500.
I have in writing the deposit was refundable if not as described, and he tyres I had no choice as he did not say they were down the canvas initially. I think I just need to know if I'm entitled to anything back both legally and morally.
Cheers
Haves1979 said:
I paid by bank transfer.
Have just spoken to the guy and has said he will refund £300 now and the remaining £200 if the van sells privately (he had an option for a trade in in two weeks when he collects his new one)..
Well I'd say that's a result if he follows through on it.Have just spoken to the guy and has said he will refund £300 now and the remaining £200 if the van sells privately (he had an option for a trade in in two weeks when he collects his new one)..
I'm not sure I follow your argument about the oil usage though. If the oil usage is well within the spec of the car, how have you concluded that the engine is about to blow? Or have I misunderstood?
Bert
BertBert said:
Well I'd say that's a result if he follows through on it.
I'm not sure I follow your argument about the oil usage though. If the oil usage is well within the spec of the car, how have you concluded that the engine is about to blow? Or have I misunderstood?
Bert
I kind of understand it - firstly the seller said it used no oil, then amended that to a high, but within spec usage. The OP says that oil usage going suddenly up indicates a forthcoming terminal issue, thus the misgivings. It's fair enough in those circumstances - if the seller had originally said oil use is, and always has been on the high side of spec, it wouldn't raise flags.I'm not sure I follow your argument about the oil usage though. If the oil usage is well within the spec of the car, how have you concluded that the engine is about to blow? Or have I misunderstood?
Bert
Big_Dog said:
Why not just buy it and stick a warrantee on it. The seller could have lied to you and told you it uses no oil. By the time you found out you would have owned it without a leg to stand on. You might be over thinking this.
Probably cheaper to not buy something thats showing signs of going phut soon? 
Have a google of VW BTTdi engine oil consumption issues and you'll probably see the scope of the issue.
My local indy advised walk away regardless and even my local VW van dealer said that it was a gamble (albeit VW won't admit fault) so I should probably have done more research initially.. I did understand some of this at the outset, however understood it affected higher mileage vans so didn't think at 30k miles I'd have an issue. My plan had been to buy this van and put it in for an EGR update (cause of the issue), however my worry is that if the engine is already starting to use oil (and what would be 2.5 litres in 10k miles is high imo) then the ship had already sailed. Yes potentially the seller had read the dip stick incorrectly, or maybe the garage had not fully filled the oil at service, but these were unknowns, so a risk without any back up and not the 'it used no oil' we had initially discussed.
In terms of warranty companies, yes I did explore this route for peace of mind. However, some wouldn't cover motor homes, some did not cover EGR related issues, and some seemed plain criminal if you read reviews. A potential claim would have been in the order of £8k so I can imagine most warranty companies would wriggle out of it should it develop an issue.
Anyhow, the seller has sent over the payment and has been true to his word, so fingers crossed it sells to recoup the balance. Thanks for all your advice!
Cheers
My local indy advised walk away regardless and even my local VW van dealer said that it was a gamble (albeit VW won't admit fault) so I should probably have done more research initially.. I did understand some of this at the outset, however understood it affected higher mileage vans so didn't think at 30k miles I'd have an issue. My plan had been to buy this van and put it in for an EGR update (cause of the issue), however my worry is that if the engine is already starting to use oil (and what would be 2.5 litres in 10k miles is high imo) then the ship had already sailed. Yes potentially the seller had read the dip stick incorrectly, or maybe the garage had not fully filled the oil at service, but these were unknowns, so a risk without any back up and not the 'it used no oil' we had initially discussed.
In terms of warranty companies, yes I did explore this route for peace of mind. However, some wouldn't cover motor homes, some did not cover EGR related issues, and some seemed plain criminal if you read reviews. A potential claim would have been in the order of £8k so I can imagine most warranty companies would wriggle out of it should it develop an issue.
Anyhow, the seller has sent over the payment and has been true to his word, so fingers crossed it sells to recoup the balance. Thanks for all your advice!
Cheers
BertBert said:
Haves1979 said:
I paid by bank transfer.
Have just spoken to the guy and has said he will refund £300 now and the remaining £200 if the van sells privately (he had an option for a trade in in two weeks when he collects his new one)..
Well I'd say that's a result if he follows through on it.Have just spoken to the guy and has said he will refund £300 now and the remaining £200 if the van sells privately (he had an option for a trade in in two weeks when he collects his new one)..
I'm not sure I follow your argument about the oil usage though. If the oil usage is well within the spec of the car, how have you concluded that the engine is about to blow? Or have I misunderstood?
Bert
Haves1979 said:
HI, yes you may well be right. I initially thought an engine with 30k miles would be ok, but after he upped his oil usage amount I spoke to both VW and my local independent VW garage who said not and that consumption falls off a cliff when they go. They had seen 8 failures in the last 12 months between them so, this with his revised oil usage figures is what i based my decision on.
To be fair, people do take their car to a garage more when there is a problem as opposed to the ones that haven't so a garage will likely see more cars with problems than ones that haven't. A garage isn't really a good indicator unless you can measure the 8 failures they've seen against the number of cars on the road.Haves1979 said:
I paid by bank transfer.
Have just spoken to the guy and has said he will refund £300 now and the remaining £200 if the van sells privately (he had an option for a trade in in two weeks when he collects his new one)..
The bright side to this is that even if you 'only' see 3/5 of your deposit back, you've dodged a bullet by not buying it. He could've kept quiet about the oil usage and you could've been lumbered with a knackered van. You'd have had no chance of arguing the oil usage with him at a later date if it only uses half a litre per 2k miles - he'd have simply laughed at you.Have just spoken to the guy and has said he will refund £300 now and the remaining £200 if the van sells privately (he had an option for a trade in in two weeks when he collects his new one)..
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