Riparian rights
Discussion
Does anyone have any experience of riparian rights? Or more precisely how do you know if you they apply or not?
I’ve been talking to the Environment Agency about trimming back a tree which is growing on a riverbank which is at the end of our garden. They have advised us that I could have riparian rights and by those own the stretch of watercourse that joins the boundary of my property.
When asked how I would know if this is the case or not they have said it would be on the property deeds, I’ve checked and there is no mention at all of the river on the deeds.
On the gov.uk website it says:
You normally own a stretch of watercourse:
that runs on or under your land
on the boundary of your land, up to its centre
The deeds for your property or land will tell you if this is not the case. Check your deeds if you’re not clear about ownership.
Which to me seems to say that I do own the watercourse unless it says in the deeds that I don’t.
Is there anyone whose property has an adjoining watercourse that knows how it works? It’s not a problem for me either way, if it is the case that I own the stretch of watercourse then I’ll trim the tree, what I don’t want is to go ahead and trim it and to end up in bother with the environment agency.
I’ve been talking to the Environment Agency about trimming back a tree which is growing on a riverbank which is at the end of our garden. They have advised us that I could have riparian rights and by those own the stretch of watercourse that joins the boundary of my property.
When asked how I would know if this is the case or not they have said it would be on the property deeds, I’ve checked and there is no mention at all of the river on the deeds.
On the gov.uk website it says:
You normally own a stretch of watercourse:
that runs on or under your land
on the boundary of your land, up to its centre
The deeds for your property or land will tell you if this is not the case. Check your deeds if you’re not clear about ownership.
Which to me seems to say that I do own the watercourse unless it says in the deeds that I don’t.
Is there anyone whose property has an adjoining watercourse that knows how it works? It’s not a problem for me either way, if it is the case that I own the stretch of watercourse then I’ll trim the tree, what I don’t want is to go ahead and trim it and to end up in bother with the environment agency.
Nice But Dim said:
You have riparian rights as the land owner
First mistake was involving EA who just quote stuff at you
Just trim the tree
Just because you have riparian rights doesn’t mean you can prune a tree without thought. You are allowed to remove branches that might cause obstructions to the natural flow but not do anything that might increase erosion. You also have to be careful not to damage the habitat of certain species. Just check the rules under “Owning a watercourse”First mistake was involving EA who just quote stuff at you
Just trim the tree
Nice But Dim said:
You have riparian rights as the land owner
First mistake was involving EA who just quote stuff at you
Just trim the tree
I have a lot of dealings with the EA through work, not the department that deals with rivers so they aren’t any help but I know exactly how much they like quoting legislation but not really giving any information.First mistake was involving EA who just quote stuff at you
Just trim the tree
Also how much they like to hand out fines for perceived infractions of the rules which they won’t explain, particularly now that their funding is being reduced regularly so they are looking for extra income streams
Bobtherallyfan said:
Nice But Dim said:
You have riparian rights as the land owner
First mistake was involving EA who just quote stuff at you
Just trim the tree
Just because you have riparian rights doesn’t mean you can prune a tree without thought. You are allowed to remove branches that might cause obstructions to the natural flow but not do anything that might increase erosion. You also have to be careful not to damage the habitat of certain species. Just check the rules under “Owning a watercourse”First mistake was involving EA who just quote stuff at you
Just trim the tree
If you read down this a bit to the introduction https://www.eastsussex.gov.uk/media/8360/riparian-... It states you ARE a riparian owner, no if’s or buts or mentions of deeds.
It may be not strictly a legal document but is published by the Environmental Agency and you can point to it if you are accused of overstepping the mark.
It may be not strictly a legal document but is published by the Environmental Agency and you can point to it if you are accused of overstepping the mark.
Drawweight said:
If you read down this a bit to the introduction https://www.eastsussex.gov.uk/media/8360/riparian-... It states you ARE a riparian owner, no if’s or buts or mentions of deeds.
It may be not strictly a legal document but is published by the Environmental Agency and you can point to it if you are accused of overstepping the mark.
Thanks for that, very informative. It may be not strictly a legal document but is published by the Environmental Agency and you can point to it if you are accused of overstepping the mark.
This bit is what is causing the confusion I think,
• If a watercourse runs alongside
your garden wall or hedge you
should check your property deeds
to see if the wall or hedge marks
your boundary. If the watercourse
marks the boundary, it is assumed
you own the land up to the centre
of the watercourse.
The boundary is marked on the deeds but it is difficult to tell where it actually is, the river isn't clearly marked on the drawing so can't really tell if the boundary is at the end of the garden or is in the middle of the river. Maybe I should get a clearer drawing from the Land Registry?
Is there a wall or hedge?
I'd tend to assume (I know, I know) that a barrier such as a river or an old drainage ditch is a natural boundary line. As such if it isnt the boundary then I'd expect the deeds to be explicit about where the boundary actually is.
Depending on the history of the land, you might check if it was ever common land and subject to an inclosure act. I've seen the inclosure act for the land around our village and that act (it would have peen a private act of parliament) specifies the obligations regarding watercourses.
I'd tend to assume (I know, I know) that a barrier such as a river or an old drainage ditch is a natural boundary line. As such if it isnt the boundary then I'd expect the deeds to be explicit about where the boundary actually is.
Depending on the history of the land, you might check if it was ever common land and subject to an inclosure act. I've seen the inclosure act for the land around our village and that act (it would have peen a private act of parliament) specifies the obligations regarding watercourses.
TooLateForAName said:
Is there a wall or hedge?
I'd tend to assume (I know, I know) that a barrier such as a river or an old drainage ditch is a natural boundary line. As such if it isnt the boundary then I'd expect the deeds to be explicit about where the boundary actually is.
Depending on the history of the land, you might check if it was ever common land and subject to an inclosure act. I've seen the inclosure act for the land around our village and that act (it would have peen a private act of parliament) specifies the obligations regarding watercourses.
There's a wire fence at the bottom of our garden, the other houses (about 10 of them) have a variety of wire fence, wooden fence or nothing at all. The land, according to the deeds, used to be part of a farm that has long since disappeared. Reading through the deeds there no mention of either the river or where the boundary is apart from a pretty inconclusive plan of the plot which does show a line but as the river isn't depicted on the plan isn't much help other than showing there is a boundary somewhere in the vicinity of the bottom of the back garden.I'd tend to assume (I know, I know) that a barrier such as a river or an old drainage ditch is a natural boundary line. As such if it isnt the boundary then I'd expect the deeds to be explicit about where the boundary actually is.
Depending on the history of the land, you might check if it was ever common land and subject to an inclosure act. I've seen the inclosure act for the land around our village and that act (it would have peen a private act of parliament) specifies the obligations regarding watercourses.
Another thing to add possible complication is over who owns any fishing rights to the river. Perhaps a fishing club or separate individual owns them. This allows access to fish the river from the club members, individual owner or bona fide guests.
amongst the issues that can occur is maintenance of paths, stiles, riverbank. Fishing rights ownership can be quite lucrative and valuable resulting in resentment from the landowner ( usually farmer) over lost value and people on their land. Landowners cannot block access to those fishing, damage stiles over fences, pollute, significantly alter the topography or vegetation. This can also be in breach of the River Authority regs for flooding, bank erosion drainage etc.
amongst the issues that can occur is maintenance of paths, stiles, riverbank. Fishing rights ownership can be quite lucrative and valuable resulting in resentment from the landowner ( usually farmer) over lost value and people on their land. Landowners cannot block access to those fishing, damage stiles over fences, pollute, significantly alter the topography or vegetation. This can also be in breach of the River Authority regs for flooding, bank erosion drainage etc.
sospan said:
Another thing to add possible complication is over who owns any fishing rights to the river. Perhaps a fishing club or separate individual owns them. This allows access to fish the river from the club members, individual owner or bona fide guests.
amongst the issues that can occur is maintenance of paths, stiles, riverbank. Fishing rights ownership can be quite lucrative and valuable resulting in resentment from the landowner ( usually farmer) over lost value and people on their land. Landowners cannot block access to those fishing, damage stiles over fences, pollute, significantly alter the topography or vegetation. This can also be in breach of the River Authority regs for flooding, bank erosion drainage etc.
There is a club owned fishing pond up river from the house, might be worth asking them if they have any insights I guess. The section at the end of my property isn't really accessible from anywhere other than the back gardens of the houses that line the river unless you walk up through the river. amongst the issues that can occur is maintenance of paths, stiles, riverbank. Fishing rights ownership can be quite lucrative and valuable resulting in resentment from the landowner ( usually farmer) over lost value and people on their land. Landowners cannot block access to those fishing, damage stiles over fences, pollute, significantly alter the topography or vegetation. This can also be in breach of the River Authority regs for flooding, bank erosion drainage etc.
The other side of the river bank I guess is accessible but the river splits a couple of hundred yards upstream of me resulting in a bit of an island in the middle of the river.
EA won't be bothered about your tree trimming. It's not a flood risk or environmental risk, if it's a small tree and gentle trimming. An adjacent landowner would be more bothered of it was their tree and didn't want it trimmed.
Is your watercourse a designated main river? If so, you may need a flood risk activity permit (or an exemption/exclusion) to carry out your work. But if it's minor trimming (and no affected neighbours) i wouldn't bother applying.
Is your watercourse a designated main river? If so, you may need a flood risk activity permit (or an exemption/exclusion) to carry out your work. But if it's minor trimming (and no affected neighbours) i wouldn't bother applying.
xx99xx said:
EA won't be bothered about your tree trimming. It's not a flood risk or environmental risk, if it's a small tree and gentle trimming. An adjacent landowner would be more bothered of it was their tree and didn't want it trimmed.
Is your watercourse a designated main river? If so, you may need a flood risk activity permit (or an exemption/exclusion) to carry out your work. But if it's minor trimming (and no affected neighbours) i wouldn't bother applying.
Is your watercourse a designated main river? If so, you may need a flood risk activity permit (or an exemption/exclusion) to carry out your work. But if it's minor trimming (and no affected neighbours) i wouldn't bother applying.
Not really a small tree, it’s on the riverbank so part of finding out about the whole riparian rights thing is to see if who owns it (me or the EA)
Rathcon said:
Not really a small tree, it’s on the riverbank so part of finding out about the whole riparian rights thing is to see if who owns it (me or the EA)
Your other main issue is finding out if it's main river or not. If it isn't then you only need permission from the landowner. If it is, you need permission from landowner and the EA. Also very unlikely the EA is the landowner.xx99xx said:
Your other main issue is finding out if it's main river or not. If it isn't then you only need permission from the landowner. If it is, you need permission from landowner and the EA. Also very unlikely the EA is the landowner.
I've checked on the EA's main river map and if I'm reading the map right it seems to be a statutory main river. Land owner wise I've no idea, I guess that will be another land registry search, unless riparian rights do apply in which case the land owner will be me? Seems that everything is going round in circles here, would be so much easier if it was just a simple case of live next to a river and you own the riverbank....£4 on a land registry search is the next step I think
When you bought the property was there anything in the deeds/paperwork relating to the river?
Access by interested parties(EA, anglers etc), drainage requirements, maintenance, flood risk assessments being the most likely.
Is there a TPO for the tree?
If not then you shouldn’t have issues with simply pruning or general upkeep of the tree.
Access by interested parties(EA, anglers etc), drainage requirements, maintenance, flood risk assessments being the most likely.
Is there a TPO for the tree?
If not then you shouldn’t have issues with simply pruning or general upkeep of the tree.
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