Is remote start legal in the UK?
Discussion
I used remote start on my new Land Rover for the first time today. It’s a facility whereby you can warm or cool the car before you get in it by setting the temperature via an app on your phone.
Great idea, but it occurred to me that it may break the law by leaving a vehicle running while unattended. The car was parked on a private driveway but I guess as it isn’t gated the RTA still applies.
When remote start is operational the car is locked and I understand that unless you have the key on you it won’t drive.
I understand some emergency vehicles have a system whereby the engine runs - to keep onboard IT booted up - but that they too can’t be driven. Is that some sort of exemption?
To be clear, the system on my car isn’t one of those Webasto heaters. It’s the engine that’s running,
Great idea, but it occurred to me that it may break the law by leaving a vehicle running while unattended. The car was parked on a private driveway but I guess as it isn’t gated the RTA still applies.
When remote start is operational the car is locked and I understand that unless you have the key on you it won’t drive.
I understand some emergency vehicles have a system whereby the engine runs - to keep onboard IT booted up - but that they too can’t be driven. Is that some sort of exemption?
To be clear, the system on my car isn’t one of those Webasto heaters. It’s the engine that’s running,
J8 SVG said:
The remote heating uses a fuel burning heater rather than the engine and actually makes the engine more efficient when it starts because the lubricants have already been warmed up (At least under 5 degrees, anyway)
The OP specifically said that the engine is running. Despite the lack of a gate, i think he's safe on private property. It is (or was!) definitely an offence to leave a vehicle unattended with the engine running. Have changes been made to legislation to allow for modern vehicles with remote starting?
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1986/1078/regu...
"Leaving motor vehicles unattended
107.—(1) Save as provided in paragraph (2), no person shall leave, or cause or permit to be left, on a road a motor vehicle which is not attended by a person licensed to drive it unless the engine is stopped and any parking brake with which the vehicle is required to be equipped is effectively set.
(2) The requirement specified in paragraph (1) as to the stopping of the engine shall not apply in respect of a vehicle—
(a)being used for ambulance, fire brigade or police purposes; or
(b)in such a position and condition as not to be likely to endanger any person or property and engaged in an operation which requires its engine to be used to—
(i)drive machinery forming part of, or mounted on, the vehicle and used for purposes other than driving the vehicle; or
(ii)maintain the electrical power of the batteries of the vehicle at a level required for driving that machinery or apparatus.
(3) In this regulation “parking brake” means a brake fitted to a vehicle in accordance with requirement 16 or 18 in Schedule 3."
Commonly referred to as 'quitting'. Wording says 'on a road'.
Getting towards the time of year when the motoring organisations usually start reminding us not to leave the car unattended with the engine running to defrost.
Bear in mind that there may also be insurance consequences if the vehicle is left running & is stolen, whether that be from a road or your drive.
"Leaving motor vehicles unattended
107.—(1) Save as provided in paragraph (2), no person shall leave, or cause or permit to be left, on a road a motor vehicle which is not attended by a person licensed to drive it unless the engine is stopped and any parking brake with which the vehicle is required to be equipped is effectively set.
(2) The requirement specified in paragraph (1) as to the stopping of the engine shall not apply in respect of a vehicle—
(a)being used for ambulance, fire brigade or police purposes; or
(b)in such a position and condition as not to be likely to endanger any person or property and engaged in an operation which requires its engine to be used to—
(i)drive machinery forming part of, or mounted on, the vehicle and used for purposes other than driving the vehicle; or
(ii)maintain the electrical power of the batteries of the vehicle at a level required for driving that machinery or apparatus.
(3) In this regulation “parking brake” means a brake fitted to a vehicle in accordance with requirement 16 or 18 in Schedule 3."
Commonly referred to as 'quitting'. Wording says 'on a road'.
Getting towards the time of year when the motoring organisations usually start reminding us not to leave the car unattended with the engine running to defrost.
Bear in mind that there may also be insurance consequences if the vehicle is left running & is stolen, whether that be from a road or your drive.
From the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986
Only "so far as may be necessary for the prevention of noise", so that might not apply if it's quiet enough.
Could running a heater be considered to be "(i)drive machinery forming part of, or mounted on, the vehicle and used for purposes other than driving the vehicle;"?
However also;
The Road Traffic (Vehicle Emissions) (Fixed Penalty) (England) Regulations 2002
However, appears to apply to "stationary on a road", and they can't fine you for it unless they have asked you to stop and you haven't.
Only "so far as may be necessary for the prevention of noise", so that might not apply if it's quiet enough.
Could running a heater be considered to be "(i)drive machinery forming part of, or mounted on, the vehicle and used for purposes other than driving the vehicle;"?
However also;
The Road Traffic (Vehicle Emissions) (Fixed Penalty) (England) Regulations 2002
However, appears to apply to "stationary on a road", and they can't fine you for it unless they have asked you to stop and you haven't.
J8 SVG said:
The remote heating uses a fuel burning heater rather than the engine and actually makes the engine more efficient when it starts because the lubricants have already been warmed up (At least under 5 degrees, anyway)
I'm not aware of any cars sold in the UK with a Fuel Operated Heater. They're normally only sold in Nordic countries in Europe.OP - I know that for the remote start is limited to 5 mins on our cars, and only available as an option on the automatics in P. Homologation might see it differently for manuals. I'm not aware of the legislation that covers this feature.
So a bit of a grey area then,
It’s a feature new to me, but if it’s fitted to a fairly mainstream vehicle like mine, I imagine it’s a pretty common feature.
I did wonder about insurance but it is part of the car’s standard spec and being used in accordance with the manufactures instructions and specs - ie double locked.
As the feature runs the engine with the sole purpose of powering the climate control dies this mean it isn’t unattended in the same way a car turned on manually would be?
Could it be one of those odd illegal but rarely or never enforced things like cars with lights that are lower than the minimum height above the ground?
It’s a feature new to me, but if it’s fitted to a fairly mainstream vehicle like mine, I imagine it’s a pretty common feature.
I did wonder about insurance but it is part of the car’s standard spec and being used in accordance with the manufactures instructions and specs - ie double locked.
As the feature runs the engine with the sole purpose of powering the climate control dies this mean it isn’t unattended in the same way a car turned on manually would be?
Could it be one of those odd illegal but rarely or never enforced things like cars with lights that are lower than the minimum height above the ground?
This is a much more common feature than a lot of people in this thread seem to realise.
Numerous models of cars now come with a phone app which allow you to start the car from anywhere, adjust the interior heater/temperature settings and see things like the amount of fuel in the car and the location etc.
My mum/dad etc have 2 x Land Rovers and 1 x Jaguar and they all have this feature built in as standard.
Loads of other models from VW, Audi, Merc, BMW, Ford, Citroen, Honda, Mini, Porsche etc have it as well.
It is a really useful feature in both summer and winter, but underused by a lot of people as they just don’t understand it or don’t know they have this option.
Numerous models of cars now come with a phone app which allow you to start the car from anywhere, adjust the interior heater/temperature settings and see things like the amount of fuel in the car and the location etc.
My mum/dad etc have 2 x Land Rovers and 1 x Jaguar and they all have this feature built in as standard.
Loads of other models from VW, Audi, Merc, BMW, Ford, Citroen, Honda, Mini, Porsche etc have it as well.
It is a really useful feature in both summer and winter, but underused by a lot of people as they just don’t understand it or don’t know they have this option.
I had this feature on a Holden rental car and thought it was cool, did wonder why you don't see it over here but evidently it is possible. Like you say can't see any problem if the car allows you to do it from factory in UK spec.
GroundEffect said:
I'm not aware of any cars sold in the UK with a Fuel Operated Heater. They're normally only sold in Nordic countries in Europe.
I've definitely seen cars like the diesel Rover 75 and BMW X5 fitted with fuel burning heaters in the UKJust to add, the Department for Transport were asked about remote start a couple of years ago and said this:
“Those who have access to private, off-street parking are legally able to use an app to remotely start a car’s engine and leave it running without being present.
However on the public road, use of such apps would only be lawful where the driver was in close attendance and could take control of the vehicle if needed.”
“Those who have access to private, off-street parking are legally able to use an app to remotely start a car’s engine and leave it running without being present.
However on the public road, use of such apps would only be lawful where the driver was in close attendance and could take control of the vehicle if needed.”
otolith said:
paintman said:
Bear in mind that there may also be insurance consequences if the vehicle is left running & is stolen, whether that be from a road or your drive.
He's got a remote start feature, the car runs and warms up unattended but cannot be driven without the key.whytheory said:
I had this feature on a Holden rental car and thought it was cool, did wonder why you don't see it over here but evidently it is possible. Like you say can't see any problem if the car allows you to do it from factory in UK spec.
Yes. Some UK cars did/do have Auxiliary heaters as standard.GroundEffect said:
I'm not aware of any cars sold in the UK with a Fuel Operated Heater. They're normally only sold in Nordic countries in Europe.
I've definitely seen cars like the diesel Rover 75 and BMW X5 fitted with fuel burning heaters in the UKA friend of mine had a S Type Jag a few years ago and it used to belch smoke out from under one side of the front bumper and we thought the car was on fire... turns out the S Type is fitted with a Webasto heater that runs off the diesel supply.
paintman said:
otolith said:
paintman said:
Bear in mind that there may also be insurance consequences if the vehicle is left running & is stolen, whether that be from a road or your drive.
He's got a remote start feature, the car runs and warms up unattended but cannot be driven without the key.Lord Marylebone said:
whytheory said:
I had this feature on a Holden rental car and thought it was cool, did wonder why you don't see it over here but evidently it is possible. Like you say can't see any problem if the car allows you to do it from factory in UK spec.
Yes. Some UK cars did/do have Auxiliary heaters as standard.GroundEffect said:
I'm not aware of any cars sold in the UK with a Fuel Operated Heater. They're normally only sold in Nordic countries in Europe.
I've definitely seen cars like the diesel Rover 75 and BMW X5 fitted with fuel burning heaters in the UKA friend of mine had a S Type Jag a few years ago and it used to belch smoke out from under one side of the front bumper and we thought the car was on fire... turns out the S Type is fitted with a Webasto heater that runs off the diesel supply.
I think the remote start from the key fob - as seen on some US cars - isn’t allowed in the UK.
Edited by Wildcat45 on Friday 18th September 09:44
Wildcat45 said:
I do wonder how robust the security is. Nothing is totally secure.
It takes 3 stages to get to the engine start.
My phone - pin or facial recognition
App password
Then to enable the feature, a separate PIN
I'm not sure any of those matter, unless the PIN is in the cars computer. It takes 3 stages to get to the engine start.
My phone - pin or facial recognition
App password
Then to enable the feature, a separate PIN
Those features just stop someone getting hold of your phone and using to it trigger the remote start.
If the PIN is 4 digits, then that's trivial for a computer to crack.
But as someone else alluded to... if someone else has gotten close enough to your car to hack it to trigger remote start, they've gotten close enough to just start the engine and drive it away.
We had this on a Volvo until recently, wife loved using it in the mornings in winter. Now have a Mercedes, and the functionality has been taken out of the Mercedes Me app for the U.K. market, which is a crying shame! It does have a diesel heater with a timer, but that’s nowhere near as convenient as starting via the app..
Edited by SlowAndDull on Friday 18th September 10:28
Wildcat45 said:
Yes it was an option on earlier Land Rovers and I recall as far back as the 1980s you could get a timer based system on Mercedes.
I think the remote start from the key fob - as seen on some US cars - isn’t allowed in the UK.
Are you sure about key fob start not being allowed in the UK?I think the remote start from the key fob - as seen on some US cars - isn’t allowed in the UK.
I can't honestly see why it would be banned when you can sit in your house and start your car with an app?
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