Covenant Enforcement on Shared Access Parking
Discussion
Yet another thread on shared access and parking, but I am interested to hear from anyone who has progressed with legal action and how it worked out?
Quick synopsis; 3 houses, private gated development with shared access. Deeds say clearly the access must be unobstructed at all times. There has been consistent breaches for 4 years which I have been living with but it’s now at a point where I need to stop it or move house. I took paid advice and have been told that the deeds are clear and I can enforce the covenant, it would go to tribunal, injunctions etc to stop parking on the access.
Before I finally pull the trigger (I have tried talking to the neighbours to explain the deeds) what experiences has anyone had with the legal process and enforcement? I do not understand how enforcement will work and am reticent that I am being led down a rabbit hole by legal advisors who are motivated by fees over outcomes.
Quick synopsis; 3 houses, private gated development with shared access. Deeds say clearly the access must be unobstructed at all times. There has been consistent breaches for 4 years which I have been living with but it’s now at a point where I need to stop it or move house. I took paid advice and have been told that the deeds are clear and I can enforce the covenant, it would go to tribunal, injunctions etc to stop parking on the access.
Before I finally pull the trigger (I have tried talking to the neighbours to explain the deeds) what experiences has anyone had with the legal process and enforcement? I do not understand how enforcement will work and am reticent that I am being led down a rabbit hole by legal advisors who are motivated by fees over outcomes.
I get the give in and move sentiment but why should I? I really like my house, I like where I live, its a great spot. We all bought our homes knowing what the rules were, just because someone is a 
shouldn’t mean I need to roll over and spend 10s of thousands in stamp duty alone to move. I would rather spend it on enforcing the covenants.
There are endless threads on opinions on should you/shouldn’t you, I am asking for real world experience of pursuing the enforcement route.
shouldn’t mean I need to roll over and spend 10s of thousands in stamp duty alone to move. I would rather spend it on enforcing the covenants.There are endless threads on opinions on should you/shouldn’t you, I am asking for real world experience of pursuing the enforcement route.
Okay suppose you get the result you want and you will in the process annoy your neighbours to the point where if you're lucky they just cold shoulder and ignore you or generally make living there unpleasant. You will be amazed at how much of an arse someone can be if they feel agreaved even if they are in the wrong.
You might have won the battle but you will lose the war, you will end up moving it is just the timescale and how much grief you can put up with.
Don't presume neighbourly relations will ever recover plus you will have a dispute to declare when selling but crack on if you want, please update the thread with how it is going. I think act in haste repent at leisure applies here?
Now where did I put my popcorn.
P.S. I have been through this and thought the same but having now moved I ask myself why didn't I just get on and move earlier, the damage to you just isn't worth it.
P.P.S. It is not giving in but is recognising that your quality of life is more important than a house.
You might have won the battle but you will lose the war, you will end up moving it is just the timescale and how much grief you can put up with.
Don't presume neighbourly relations will ever recover plus you will have a dispute to declare when selling but crack on if you want, please update the thread with how it is going. I think act in haste repent at leisure applies here?
Now where did I put my popcorn.
P.S. I have been through this and thought the same but having now moved I ask myself why didn't I just get on and move earlier, the damage to you just isn't worth it.
P.P.S. It is not giving in but is recognising that your quality of life is more important than a house.
Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 7th October 21:00
Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 7th October 21:05
Helicopter123 said:
gottans said:
Save your money and just move, life is too short. If it is a PITA now the situation will only deteriorate further if you continue.
Sage advice - thread could end now.soofsayer said:
I get the give in and move sentiment but why should I?
Because you'll end up better off. Many years ago I lived in a nice house with crap neighbours. The only way to stop the hassle was to move, so I did. It didn't take me long before I felt very smug knowing I'd left the dogs to bite each other while I relaxed somewhere else among much nicer people. You might feel like you're giving in but the sooner you walk away from a pile of st, the sooner you won't have to put up with the smell of st anymore. Also, disputes have to be declared when selling a property, so better to get out before it gets to that point.Covenants are not worth the paper they are written on.
Where I live the covenants clearly state that caravans are strictly forbidden too be parked on the front gardens.
My cretin of a neighbour did exactly that - dumped a scruffy caravan on his front garden which, since it was put there 3 years, he has used less than half a dozen times.
The covenants clearly state that the frontages should remain open plan with fences strictly forbidden.
My cretin of a neighbour did exactly that - built a six foot high fence to ‘hide’ his scruffy caravan.
So the land owner was contacted & was made aware of the breaches of the covenant.
And guess what? The land owner said that he was not prepared to spend the money that would be needed to enforce the covenants!!!
So all the covenant did was too create bad feeling which still lingers after 3 years.
Absolute waste of time having covenants in place.
Where I live the covenants clearly state that caravans are strictly forbidden too be parked on the front gardens.
My cretin of a neighbour did exactly that - dumped a scruffy caravan on his front garden which, since it was put there 3 years, he has used less than half a dozen times.
The covenants clearly state that the frontages should remain open plan with fences strictly forbidden.
My cretin of a neighbour did exactly that - built a six foot high fence to ‘hide’ his scruffy caravan.
So the land owner was contacted & was made aware of the breaches of the covenant.
And guess what? The land owner said that he was not prepared to spend the money that would be needed to enforce the covenants!!!
So all the covenant did was too create bad feeling which still lingers after 3 years.
Absolute waste of time having covenants in place.
How does enforcement work?
1. You or your lawyers write a letter before claim to your neighbours.
2. Absent a positive response, you or your lawyers issue a claim against your neighbours in your local County Court.
3. The claim may or may not be contested. If the Court upholds the claim, it grants an injunction that orders your neighbours to do X or to refrain from doing Y.
NOTE: You might lose because of a thing called the equitable doctrine of laches. That is boring lawyer-speak for delay in enforcing your rights. Injunctions are discretionary remedies.
4. If one or more neighbours breaches the injunction, you have the option of applying for that neighbour to be sent to jail, or fined, or have his or her assets seized by the court.
5. The loser of the case is usually ordered to pay the costs of the winner. Enforcing the costs order is another process altogether. Mechanisms include seeking to bankrupt the loser.
NOTE: sometimes Judges in neighbour disputes say **** you to all parties and make no order as to costs. Judges HATE neighbour disputes.
Do you really want to do any of that? Do you really want to do 4? or 5?
A commercial land user might enforce a covenant against another commercial land user. Companies do not have emotions. Neighbour disputes between humans are very emotional, and can lead to huge expense, to mental health problems, and even to violence.
OP, I notice that you do not trust your lawyers. Are you a slow to trust person? How have you gone about discussing the problem with your neighbours? Did you go straight to confrontation mode, or did you try a consensus building approach? What is the problem anyway? Is access actually blocked, or just made a bit less easy than it might be?
IAAL, IA(GIA)NYL
1. You or your lawyers write a letter before claim to your neighbours.
2. Absent a positive response, you or your lawyers issue a claim against your neighbours in your local County Court.
3. The claim may or may not be contested. If the Court upholds the claim, it grants an injunction that orders your neighbours to do X or to refrain from doing Y.
NOTE: You might lose because of a thing called the equitable doctrine of laches. That is boring lawyer-speak for delay in enforcing your rights. Injunctions are discretionary remedies.
4. If one or more neighbours breaches the injunction, you have the option of applying for that neighbour to be sent to jail, or fined, or have his or her assets seized by the court.
5. The loser of the case is usually ordered to pay the costs of the winner. Enforcing the costs order is another process altogether. Mechanisms include seeking to bankrupt the loser.
NOTE: sometimes Judges in neighbour disputes say **** you to all parties and make no order as to costs. Judges HATE neighbour disputes.
Do you really want to do any of that? Do you really want to do 4? or 5?
A commercial land user might enforce a covenant against another commercial land user. Companies do not have emotions. Neighbour disputes between humans are very emotional, and can lead to huge expense, to mental health problems, and even to violence.
OP, I notice that you do not trust your lawyers. Are you a slow to trust person? How have you gone about discussing the problem with your neighbours? Did you go straight to confrontation mode, or did you try a consensus building approach? What is the problem anyway? Is access actually blocked, or just made a bit less easy than it might be?
IAAL, IA(GIA)NYL
Thanks bv thats helpful. We have 2 neighbours.
Yes I have spoken to them about the issue but have generally been ignored. The individual woman who is the chief troublemaker has not spoken to us for over a year and deliberately ignores us when passing (no idea why but she is very stroppy generally) etc. We had some stty texts off her when we had some landscaping done late last year due to her having to wait 1 minute for a lorry to drop a delivery (she had parked in the shared access hence why she was blocked). The other neighbour (wife) used to send us stty texts about random stuff until we replied to knock on our door if she had anything to discuss, never got another one. The two neighbours (wives) are very close and moved into the development months before we did. They have both fallen out with the other neighbours around them.
Maybe it’s cathartic but writing this is making me think actually they are just massive aholes and parking is just one manifestation of their weirdness, god knows what other crap they will try, so perhaps this is the wrong place for us. Last night a place not far from us popped up on RM that would be ideal for our growing family if I could get the price down, some might try that route first. It does pain me though, we would be looking at a £1m+ purchase again so stamp duty alone is a huge expense.
On lawyers, no I don’t trust any of them. In the business world I use lawyers quite a bit and frankly they are really only interested in billing.
I will update this thread either way.
Yes I have spoken to them about the issue but have generally been ignored. The individual woman who is the chief troublemaker has not spoken to us for over a year and deliberately ignores us when passing (no idea why but she is very stroppy generally) etc. We had some s
tty texts off her when we had some landscaping done late last year due to her having to wait 1 minute for a lorry to drop a delivery (she had parked in the shared access hence why she was blocked). The other neighbour (wife) used to send us stty texts about random stuff until we replied to knock on our door if she had anything to discuss, never got another one. The two neighbours (wives) are very close and moved into the development months before we did. They have both fallen out with the other neighbours around them.Maybe it’s cathartic but writing this is making me think actually they are just massive a
holes and parking is just one manifestation of their weirdness, god knows what other crap they will try, so perhaps this is the wrong place for us. Last night a place not far from us popped up on RM that would be ideal for our growing family if I could get the price down, some might try that route first. It does pain me though, we would be looking at a £1m+ purchase again so stamp duty alone is a huge expense.On lawyers, no I don’t trust any of them. In the business world I use lawyers quite a bit and frankly they are really only interested in billing.
I will update this thread either way.
soofsayer said:
...
On lawyers, no I don’t trust any of them. In the business world I use lawyers quite a bit and frankly they are really only interested in billing.
.
I am a lawyer. Did I send you a bill? Your slur on an entire profession is commonplace, but none the less foolish for that. On lawyers, no I don’t trust any of them. In the business world I use lawyers quite a bit and frankly they are really only interested in billing.
.
You do all of your work for free, I am sure.
Breadvan72 said:
soofsayer said:
...
On lawyers, no I don’t trust any of them. In the business world I use lawyers quite a bit and frankly they are really only interested in billing.
.
I am a lawyer. Did I send you a bill? Your slur on an entire profession is commonplace, but none the less foolish for that. On lawyers, no I don’t trust any of them. In the business world I use lawyers quite a bit and frankly they are really only interested in billing.
.
You do all of your work for free, I am sure.
Not looking for an argument here, I was asked about trust. And your free advice has been very helpful indeed, thankyou (knowing it is from a professional is good info).
I agree it is wrong to slur the entire profession, so please accept my apologies for inferring as much, my comments are from my personal experiences over many years.
soofsayer said:
Yet another thread on shared access and parking, but I am interested to hear from anyone who has progressed with legal action and how it worked out?
Quick synopsis; 3 houses, private gated development with shared access. Deeds say clearly the access must be unobstructed at all times. There has been consistent breaches for 4 years which I have been living with but it’s now at a point where I need to stop it or move house. I took paid advice and have been told that the deeds are clear and I can enforce the covenant, it would go to tribunal, injunctions etc to stop parking on the access.
Before I finally pull the trigger (I have tried talking to the neighbours to explain the deeds) what experiences has anyone had with the legal process and enforcement? I do not understand how enforcement will work and am reticent that I am being led down a rabbit hole by legal advisors who are motivated by fees over outcomes.
My Mum had similar (shared drive between two houses) and sought legal advice. The solicitor wrote a letter to the neighbour highlighting what the covenant said and the potential consequences of not adhering to it and they stopped parking there. When she came to sell a couple of years later, it was declared on the SPIF but I am not sure she was obliged to.Quick synopsis; 3 houses, private gated development with shared access. Deeds say clearly the access must be unobstructed at all times. There has been consistent breaches for 4 years which I have been living with but it’s now at a point where I need to stop it or move house. I took paid advice and have been told that the deeds are clear and I can enforce the covenant, it would go to tribunal, injunctions etc to stop parking on the access.
Before I finally pull the trigger (I have tried talking to the neighbours to explain the deeds) what experiences has anyone had with the legal process and enforcement? I do not understand how enforcement will work and am reticent that I am being led down a rabbit hole by legal advisors who are motivated by fees over outcomes.
I'm not sure I'd want to take it much further than that - trying to enforce it sounds stressful enough, and that's before you have to live/deal with the embittered neighbours on a daily basis thereafter.
Chris
Is this a covenant thing, or a right of way thing? Who actually owns the access way, where exactly are people parking on it and what exactly is the verbiage from the deeds?
The devil very often is in the details in this sort of thing and you'd be best advised to seek legal advice from suitably qualified professionals who are experienced in this sort of dispute, not just high street generalists. Expect them to bill you too.
The devil very often is in the details in this sort of thing and you'd be best advised to seek legal advice from suitably qualified professionals who are experienced in this sort of dispute, not just high street generalists. Expect them to bill you too.
Pictures would help
I note that the 'move' suggesters are not offering to pay for estate agents remova firms new furnishing Breadvan72 etc.. After all it isn't their money lol
Perhaps they can afford to, you may not. be able to
It is the ideal out but needs serious thinking before anything is put in motion Perhaps a chat, BBQ, dinner over a few bottles of wine MIGHT be a cheaper solution.
From what you say you may have to bite your tongue but explain it first and keep the big legal stick behind your back
I note that the 'move' suggesters are not offering to pay for estate agents remova firms new furnishing Breadvan72 etc.. After all it isn't their money lol
Perhaps they can afford to, you may not. be able to
It is the ideal out but needs serious thinking before anything is put in motion Perhaps a chat, BBQ, dinner over a few bottles of wine MIGHT be a cheaper solution.
From what you say you may have to bite your tongue but explain it first and keep the big legal stick behind your back
Plenty of food for thought. Thanks for the responses.
Well we are going to have one last attempt at sorting the issue by writing to both neighbours in the next few days asking them to respect the covenant and not to block any of the access because it is causing problems. If they don’t play ball then at least we can show we were trying to resolve this amicably before taking it further.
Unfortunately the BBQ, bottle of wine idea wont work. We invited both houses over for a drink when we had settled in and got a ‘we will check our diaries’ response, still waiting for a date lol.
Costs to move are fairly chunky, ignoring removals, legals, the stamp duty will be around £50k to go to something similar elsewhere.
Well we are going to have one last attempt at sorting the issue by writing to both neighbours in the next few days asking them to respect the covenant and not to block any of the access because it is causing problems. If they don’t play ball then at least we can show we were trying to resolve this amicably before taking it further.
Unfortunately the BBQ, bottle of wine idea wont work. We invited both houses over for a drink when we had settled in and got a ‘we will check our diaries’ response, still waiting for a date lol.
Costs to move are fairly chunky, ignoring removals, legals, the stamp duty will be around £50k to go to something similar elsewhere.
I'm honestly not trying to be rude, perhaps a little naive, but who buys a £1m property that has a shared drive?
Unless you need to live where you are, there are literally thousands of properties in the UK for around that price with loads of land, private drives, paddocks, double/triple garages, long drives etc...
As health (mental and physical) is no longer a taboo subject, is the stress of putting up with Mr & Mrs dhead parkers (I say both because one of them is an enabler and I'd be the first to chastise my missus for pissing off the neighbours - as would she if I did), worth your sanity to live where you are?
Don't get me wrong, they're obviously at fault, and no reasonable person would do or permit that behaviour!
You shouldn't have to move, but you have to balance the stress of winning (and still not winning if they cause further stress down the road) with the dream place a little further afield on your solely owned drive/plot etc - pretty sure with access to the kind of fundage that 99% of us could only dream of, your choices are plenty!
Good luck with whatever happens!
Unless you need to live where you are, there are literally thousands of properties in the UK for around that price with loads of land, private drives, paddocks, double/triple garages, long drives etc...
As health (mental and physical) is no longer a taboo subject, is the stress of putting up with Mr & Mrs d
head parkers (I say both because one of them is an enabler and I'd be the first to chastise my missus for pissing off the neighbours - as would she if I did), worth your sanity to live where you are?Don't get me wrong, they're obviously at fault, and no reasonable person would do or permit that behaviour!
You shouldn't have to move, but you have to balance the stress of winning (and still not winning if they cause further stress down the road) with the dream place a little further afield on your solely owned drive/plot etc - pretty sure with access to the kind of fundage that 99% of us could only dream of, your choices are plenty!
Good luck with whatever happens!
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