NIP - advice please?
Discussion
About 6 weeks ago I received an unexpected NIP in the post? I racked my brain for my whereabouts, pretty sure I wasn't anywhere near Slough on that day. So politely responded asking for the photographic evidence in the hope it might shed some more light.
It's taken them about 3 weeks to respond, to which they say;
[i]Thank you for your recent communication in connection with the above notice, indicating that there may have been a possible clerical error recording your registration number on this occasion. In order that further enquiries can be made, please forward photographs of your vehicle, in the format shown, to this office, [b]together with a daytime telephone number[/b], within the next 14 days.[/i]
Well now I am really confused, they say "in the format shown". But there is nothing showing the format they would like these in. The helpline is always engaged, something just doesn't seem right?
If they wrote to me saying my registration had exceeded the speed limit, surely I am within my rights to ask for proof? What does me sending them photographs of my car achieve?
I know it's insignificant, but what about the cost too. If there wrong, out of priniciple they should reimburse me with the cost of the prints! So frustrating, can anyone give me some advice?
It's taken them about 3 weeks to respond, to which they say;
[i]Thank you for your recent communication in connection with the above notice, indicating that there may have been a possible clerical error recording your registration number on this occasion. In order that further enquiries can be made, please forward photographs of your vehicle, in the format shown, to this office, [b]together with a daytime telephone number[/b], within the next 14 days.[/i]
Well now I am really confused, they say "in the format shown". But there is nothing showing the format they would like these in. The helpline is always engaged, something just doesn't seem right?
If they wrote to me saying my registration had exceeded the speed limit, surely I am within my rights to ask for proof? What does me sending them photographs of my car achieve?
I know it's insignificant, but what about the cost too. If there wrong, out of priniciple they should reimburse me with the cost of the prints! So frustrating, can anyone give me some advice?
Merely my opinion:
Do not forward them a picture of your car as yet, they may use it against you. I would ask them why they need to see your car first.
Ask them to send you the photographic ID they have if they believe it's your car. I suspect it's a clone.
Something about this smells fishier than a barrow full of rotting haddock
Do not forward them a picture of your car as yet, they may use it against you. I would ask them why they need to see your car first.
Ask them to send you the photographic ID they have if they believe it's your car. I suspect it's a clone.
Something about this smells fishier than a barrow full of rotting haddock
The cornerstone of English Law, unlike the French, is that one is innocent until proved Guilty. There are very few occasions when one has to prove innocent or guilty and one of these is whether or not one has a Driving Licence. Speeding isn't.
Consider writing back that you are unable to forward a photograph and ask them again to send what they have as you feel that a cloned number plate is involved due to you having no recollection of the incident they refer to or even being in the area involved.
Disclose your telephone number so that THEY can contact you if they have matters to discuss.
DVD
>> Edited by Dwight VanDriver on Wednesday 29th June 14:51
Consider writing back that you are unable to forward a photograph and ask them again to send what they have as you feel that a cloned number plate is involved due to you having no recollection of the incident they refer to or even being in the area involved.
Disclose your telephone number so that THEY can contact you if they have matters to discuss.
DVD
>> Edited by Dwight VanDriver on Wednesday 29th June 14:51
Update - managed to get through to the helpline. The person I spoke to did everything to skirt around there reasons for requiring a photograph of my vehicle. Nor could they answer what format they want these photographs.
Like you say I haven't heard of the Police requesting photographs of your car? It would be much simpler if it was actually me, but why should I accept 3 points, £60 fine and increase on my insurance until I have proof.
I was hoping to get this resolved asap, incidently you don't just think the system could have mis-read my registration? Hence why there asking for a photograph of my vehicle. All this talk of a clone is a rather worrying thought.
If the Police think there is a clone out there, will my registration become a target by patrol cars until they recover the clone, suspect your all going to say yes
Like you say I haven't heard of the Police requesting photographs of your car? It would be much simpler if it was actually me, but why should I accept 3 points, £60 fine and increase on my insurance until I have proof.
I was hoping to get this resolved asap, incidently you don't just think the system could have mis-read my registration? Hence why there asking for a photograph of my vehicle. All this talk of a clone is a rather worrying thought.
If the Police think there is a clone out there, will my registration become a target by patrol cars until they recover the clone, suspect your all going to say yes
Nice car Mark - you might want to consider removing the numberplate from the picture - otherwise you could be inviting someone to clone it...
Yes, you are likely to become a target for stops.
Also - there's a North Hampshire meet for S2000s being organised in July at www.s2ki.com - are you a member?
Yes, you are likely to become a target for stops.
Also - there's a North Hampshire meet for S2000s being organised in July at www.s2ki.com - are you a member?
I do read s2ki international, they seem like a good bunch so may well check the diary for the north hampshire meet.
Thanks, just uploaded a replacement photograph with the number plate removed. I never really worried too much about it before, just figured if someone wanted to clone your car they could just as easy write your number plate down or photograph it parked outside tesco.
I have never had any other fines, so hopefully it's just the camera gone bonkers when photographing a similar licence plate on a extremly dirty honda accord with a very similar registration. I don't fancy all the grief of getting pulled over everytime I pass a police car.
Puggit - your IT Storage Pre-Sales, anywhere I might know? We might well move in the same circles.
>> Edited by markda on Wednesday 29th June 17:00
Thanks, just uploaded a replacement photograph with the number plate removed. I never really worried too much about it before, just figured if someone wanted to clone your car they could just as easy write your number plate down or photograph it parked outside tesco.
I have never had any other fines, so hopefully it's just the camera gone bonkers when photographing a similar licence plate on a extremly dirty honda accord with a very similar registration. I don't fancy all the grief of getting pulled over everytime I pass a police car.
Puggit - your IT Storage Pre-Sales, anywhere I might know? We might well move in the same circles.
>> Edited by markda on Wednesday 29th June 17:00
markda,
There is well settled case law (Neal v Fior, Jacob v Garland) which states that the burden of proof is on the prosecution to show that the car involved in an alleged offence is, in fact, the defendant's. The defendant must, however, rebut the assumption that it was his car in the first place.
In plain English. Tell them it wasn't you, and they'll have to prove it.
There is well settled case law (Neal v Fior, Jacob v Garland) which states that the burden of proof is on the prosecution to show that the car involved in an alleged offence is, in fact, the defendant's. The defendant must, however, rebut the assumption that it was his car in the first place.
In plain English. Tell them it wasn't you, and they'll have to prove it.
Now thats interesting, was going to do that. But have heard that once you insist it wasn't you, loose your ability to plead guilty. Meaning it will go to court where I am sure they will spank me for an even larger fine.
The problem is, it's not like I don't on occasion go to Slough. However I checked the work diary and racked my brains, 95% sure I didn't go anywhere near the place the entire week.
The Fixed Penalty Support Unit haven't proven to be very supportive so far. I am convinced if I see the photograph I will be able to tell if it's me or not.
The problem is, it's not like I don't on occasion go to Slough. However I checked the work diary and racked my brains, 95% sure I didn't go anywhere near the place the entire week.
The Fixed Penalty Support Unit haven't proven to be very supportive so far. I am convinced if I see the photograph I will be able to tell if it's me or not.
"The format specified". Perhaps they want two pictures of your car parked on the road varying distances along graduation marks, taken from behind from a height of about 12 feet with the date and time of the alleged offence and "47mph" printed in the bottom right hand corner.
Then I'll bet they'll send you the "proof" back.
Andy
Then I'll bet they'll send you the "proof" back.
Andy
markda said:
Now thats interesting, was going to do that. But have heard that once you insist it wasn't you, loose your ability to plead guilty. Meaning it will go to court where I am sure they will spank me for an even larger fine.
If, as you say, you're 95% sure you weren't near Slough on the day in question, write to them and say something along the lines of, "I cannot give you the information as to the driver's identity as I dispute it was my vehicle that was involved in the alleged offence" (i.e. "you've got the wrong car"
. The prosecution then have to prove it was your car.
supermono said:
"The format specified". Perhaps they want two pictures of your car parked on the road varying distances along graduation marks, taken from behind from a height of about 12 feet with the date and time of the alleged offence and "47mph" printed in the bottom right hand corner.
Then I'll bet they'll send you the "proof" back.
Andy
That's exactly what I was concerned about!
I would agree with the others - leave the photos just for the moment. They are possibly asking for yours first so that they don't send theirs and you remove a sticker, take another photo and then say "Ha! mine doesn't have a sticker there". The problem is that if your car is completely "normal" it would be a dead end.
However re. cloning: The DVLA will issue a new registration for any vehicle for the standard fee (£25?) but I imagine it is possible to have this waived if you have proof that you are a victim of cloning. The BiB can also put a flag on the PNC that a car has been cloned and they will get pulled at an ANPR checkpoint. I would recommend that you change the reg *before* this happens though!
Gareth
>> Edited by g_attrill on Thursday 30th June 10:07
However re. cloning: The DVLA will issue a new registration for any vehicle for the standard fee (£25?) but I imagine it is possible to have this waived if you have proof that you are a victim of cloning. The BiB can also put a flag on the PNC that a car has been cloned and they will get pulled at an ANPR checkpoint. I would recommend that you change the reg *before* this happens though!
Gareth
>> Edited by g_attrill on Thursday 30th June 10:07
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