NIP for not slowing at new variable limit, even when it's
Discussion
.....incorrectly applied.
As much cathartic and to warn anyone else on this one, but with a question at the end.
I was Northbound on the M1 South of Sheffield when the traffic slowed for an accident which had only just happened, there were NO warning signs on at this point.
Accelerating away from it the motorway was relatively clear as it often is after a hold up. Took it up to 70 and the warning signs came on advising (a little late) of an accident and to do 60, yet the motorway was perfectly clear, no brake lights ahead etc.
As I'd just past said accident I didn't slow, I got flashed and have just had the NIP for doing 70.
I know someone will say 'Well there could have been another accident', but there wasn't and no signs of one either.
I don't suppose it's worth contesting this is it? Seems a little unfair, but I guess rules is rules even when incorrectly applied.
As much cathartic and to warn anyone else on this one, but with a question at the end.
I was Northbound on the M1 South of Sheffield when the traffic slowed for an accident which had only just happened, there were NO warning signs on at this point.
Accelerating away from it the motorway was relatively clear as it often is after a hold up. Took it up to 70 and the warning signs came on advising (a little late) of an accident and to do 60, yet the motorway was perfectly clear, no brake lights ahead etc.
As I'd just past said accident I didn't slow, I got flashed and have just had the NIP for doing 70.
I know someone will say 'Well there could have been another accident', but there wasn't and no signs of one either.
I don't suppose it's worth contesting this is it? Seems a little unfair, but I guess rules is rules even when incorrectly applied.
The NIP may have been accompanied by an FAQ. That FAQ may say that excuses such as "the road was clear" or "I did not see the sign" are not valid excuses. Speeding is a strict liability offence. Your intention, your perception, and your judgment as to what is or is not fair are of no relevance to the bust.
The law is for the most part heavily influenced by common sense. Traffic law is often utilitarian in design. It can't function on an atomised basis making special allowances for every individual.
Not seeing animals in the road does not mean that there were never any animals in the road.
These arguments are not attractive to the Republic of Me type, but the law has to take a wider view than such a type does.
Not seeing animals in the road does not mean that there were never any animals in the road.
These arguments are not attractive to the Republic of Me type, but the law has to take a wider view than such a type does.
Annoying.
I slowed for an accident about a year ago in a variable limit, the left lane was closed where it happened. Passed the accident and the road cleared up as everyone moved left. Completely forgot about the variable limit and just booted it, realised within a few seconds that people weren't even nearly following and there were NSL signs ahead. Flash flash.
Felt very fortunate a couple of weeks later when an NIP didn't come through for some reason.
I slowed for an accident about a year ago in a variable limit, the left lane was closed where it happened. Passed the accident and the road cleared up as everyone moved left. Completely forgot about the variable limit and just booted it, realised within a few seconds that people weren't even nearly following and there were NSL signs ahead. Flash flash.
Felt very fortunate a couple of weeks later when an NIP didn't come through for some reason.
I understand from someone I know who works for the Highways Agency that the digital signs are operated from control centres and rely on the information that they receive. As it isn't just from Police and HA officers on the spot but sometimes from MLMs on their phones it is probably wrong, but they have to act on it, hence the often misleading messages. On the other hand it it is quite often correct, so best to give them the benefit of the doubt.
I passed one of those as well, but after the accident the next 3 gantries were off (no repeat sign of 40) and everyone was slowly moving back to 70 as it was all very confusing. It was only on the 4th gantry that had the "end of restrictions" sign on it (which was miles away).
In law, the 40 would still have been valid for miles after the obstruction - but having the displays off is very odd to me.
In law, the 40 would still have been valid for miles after the obstruction - but having the displays off is very odd to me.
I now join a variable speed limit motorway on my new commute. A few days ago, there was warning that a slip road up ahead was queuing, so the next few gantries went from the NSL down to 60, 50, 40 respectively. I complied accordingly and eventually passed the queue but it seemed perfectly clear at that point and the next gantry after that was back to the NSL.
I get that it can be frustrating, as it can appear to be a fuss over nothing. However, at no point did i think, well i can't see what the issue is personally, and stick to doing the NSL with huge, illuminated signs with the new limit telling me otherwise and bright yellow cameras behind them ready to pounce. I'm not sure what you could even attempt to contest tbh.
Doing 70 in a 60 should give you the option to do the course anyway. Take it and treat it as a lesson learnt.
I get that it can be frustrating, as it can appear to be a fuss over nothing. However, at no point did i think, well i can't see what the issue is personally, and stick to doing the NSL with huge, illuminated signs with the new limit telling me otherwise and bright yellow cameras behind them ready to pounce. I'm not sure what you could even attempt to contest tbh.
Doing 70 in a 60 should give you the option to do the course anyway. Take it and treat it as a lesson learnt.
EU_Foreigner said:
I passed one of those as well, but after the accident the next 3 gantries were off (no repeat sign of 40) and everyone was slowly moving back to 70 as it was all very confusing. It was only on the 4th gantry that had the "end of restrictions" sign on it (which was miles away).
In law, the 40 would still have been valid for miles after the obstruction - but having the displays off is very odd to me.
We have covered this numerous times. I wrote to Highways Agency who say, when a speed limit is not displayed due to error, the speed cameras only activate at the limit that is displayed (Therefore at NSL if no speed is displayed)In law, the 40 would still have been valid for miles after the obstruction - but having the displays off is very odd to me.
EU_Foreigner said:
Thanks - that clarifies that then. Up till now, I have only felt comfortable moving back up once passing a slip road as at that point I know they can't tell where you came from at the next gantry.
Unless there are limit signs on the slip road. A3 to M25 Westbound for example. Risky.Bert
Evoluzione said:
.....incorrectly applied.
As much cathartic and to warn anyone else on this one, but with a question at the end.
I was Northbound on the M1 South of Sheffield when the traffic slowed for an accident which had only just happened, there were NO warning signs on at this point.
Accelerating away from it the motorway was relatively clear as it often is after a hold up. Took it up to 70 and the warning signs came on advising (a little late) of an accident and to do 60, yet the motorway was perfectly clear, no brake lights ahead etc.
As I'd just past said accident I didn't slow, I got flashed and have just had the NIP for doing 70.
I know someone will say 'Well there could have been another accident', but there wasn't and no signs of one either.
I don't suppose it's worth contesting this is it? Seems a little unfair, but I guess rules is rules even when incorrectly applied.
How have they been incorrectly applied?As much cathartic and to warn anyone else on this one, but with a question at the end.
I was Northbound on the M1 South of Sheffield when the traffic slowed for an accident which had only just happened, there were NO warning signs on at this point.
Accelerating away from it the motorway was relatively clear as it often is after a hold up. Took it up to 70 and the warning signs came on advising (a little late) of an accident and to do 60, yet the motorway was perfectly clear, no brake lights ahead etc.
As I'd just past said accident I didn't slow, I got flashed and have just had the NIP for doing 70.
I know someone will say 'Well there could have been another accident', but there wasn't and no signs of one either.
I don't suppose it's worth contesting this is it? Seems a little unfair, but I guess rules is rules even when incorrectly applied.
Why was it unfair?
On what grounds do you feel speed limits (however silly) don't apply to you?
Justin Case said:
I understand from someone I know who works for the Highways Agency that the digital signs are operated from control centres and rely on the information that they receive. As it isn't just from Police and HA officers on the spot but sometimes from MLMs on their phones it is probably wrong, but they have to act on it, hence the often misleading messages. On the other hand it it is quite often correct, so best to give them the benefit of the doubt.
Thus proving what I have said all along; they're not fit for purpose.Putting up warnings for 5 miles before and after an incident because they're not entirely sure where it is and therefore carpet bomb the entire area does not equate to fit for purpose in my mind.
I must admit that some of these warnings are downright dangerous at times - had one on the M1 last year 22:00 and suddenly there's a sign advising 20mph oncoming traffic 
. There's me crawling along at the advertised limit (which feels weird anyway) and being overtaken by all and sundry - fecking terrifying! In the end I just tucked in behind an HGV @ mid-40's for the several miles the sign was on. No oncoming vehicles were seen. No NIP received, but I do wonder at the legal position there
. There's me crawling along at the advertised limit (which feels weird anyway) and being overtaken by all and sundry - fecking terrifying! In the end I just tucked in behind an HGV @ mid-40's for the several miles the sign was on. No oncoming vehicles were seen. No NIP received, but I do wonder at the legal position thereAlternatively they carpet bomb an area, cause congestion where there was none previously and as a Brucie Bonus get to nab people like OP for having the temerity to trust their own two eyes to spot a potential hazard.
Fact is, I see more misleading matrix messages than I do genuine ones, and once you've seen a few of those, you tend to become a bit blase about them.
Fact is, I see more misleading matrix messages than I do genuine ones, and once you've seen a few of those, you tend to become a bit blase about them.
Centurion07 said:
Alternatively they carpet bomb an area, cause congestion where there was none previously and as a Brucie Bonus get to nab people like OP for having the temerity to trust their own two eyes to spot a potential hazard.
Fact is, I see more misleading matrix messages than I do genuine ones, and once you've seen a few of those, you tend to become a bit blase about them.
Really? Most matrix signs I see are genuine. Fact is, I see more misleading matrix messages than I do genuine ones, and once you've seen a few of those, you tend to become a bit blase about them.
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