How simple / easy / cheap can you make a divorce?
Discussion
A simple question but I'm sure the answer is not simple!
AFAICS, there are three elements to a divorce:
1 - the Divorce petition itself
2 - the financial separation / Consent Order
3 - any Child Arrangements Orders (if required)
I have done some internetz reading and from what I can see related to the above:
1 - you and your partner can just agree to divorce, fill in the form and submit the petition, pay the court fee for it.
2 - you and your partner can just agree the financial separation / Consent Order, get it drawn up by a solicitor (because legalese has to be used), submit the agreement/Order, pay the court fee for it.
3 - you and your partner can just agree the arrangements for looking after the kids informally, or you can put a child arrangements order in place (if required) via the court (with a fee paid).
So it looks to me like:
1 - no cost for solicitors, only court fees to pay;
2 - some cost for solicitors (for drawing up the agreement/Order), plus court fees to pay;
3 - no cost if informally agreed, some cost if solicitors used, plus court fees to pay.
Is that all correct?
Additionally, re: 2 - the financial separation / Consent Order:
- if both parties agree to not claim anything off each other now or in the future, does the wikivorce template of that situation cover all the legal references/cases that could otherwise potentially trip each party up in the future?
https://divorce.wikivorce.com/guides-financial-set...
The chap I'm helping is thinking the £159 Simple Consent Order offer on Wikivorce is looking attractively priced if his wife will actually agree to a 'clean break', but I'm not aware of any feedback (good or bad) on the wikivorce solicitors - any comments are welcome!
https://www.wikivorce.com/divorce/Services/Consent...
Thank you very much in advance as always, wise Brethren of the Pistonheads.
AFAICS, there are three elements to a divorce:
1 - the Divorce petition itself
2 - the financial separation / Consent Order
3 - any Child Arrangements Orders (if required)
I have done some internetz reading and from what I can see related to the above:
1 - you and your partner can just agree to divorce, fill in the form and submit the petition, pay the court fee for it.
2 - you and your partner can just agree the financial separation / Consent Order, get it drawn up by a solicitor (because legalese has to be used), submit the agreement/Order, pay the court fee for it.
3 - you and your partner can just agree the arrangements for looking after the kids informally, or you can put a child arrangements order in place (if required) via the court (with a fee paid).
So it looks to me like:
1 - no cost for solicitors, only court fees to pay;
2 - some cost for solicitors (for drawing up the agreement/Order), plus court fees to pay;
3 - no cost if informally agreed, some cost if solicitors used, plus court fees to pay.
Is that all correct?
Additionally, re: 2 - the financial separation / Consent Order:
- if both parties agree to not claim anything off each other now or in the future, does the wikivorce template of that situation cover all the legal references/cases that could otherwise potentially trip each party up in the future?
https://divorce.wikivorce.com/guides-financial-set...
The chap I'm helping is thinking the £159 Simple Consent Order offer on Wikivorce is looking attractively priced if his wife will actually agree to a 'clean break', but I'm not aware of any feedback (good or bad) on the wikivorce solicitors - any comments are welcome!
https://www.wikivorce.com/divorce/Services/Consent...
Thank you very much in advance as always, wise Brethren of the Pistonheads.
Pretty much as you've outlined.
It goes without saying, this requires 100% mutual co-operation between the two parties, willingness to reach reasonable agreement and jointly held motivation to keep costs to a minimum.
The moment there is a difference to settle, it can get exceedingly expensive.
It goes without saying, this requires 100% mutual co-operation between the two parties, willingness to reach reasonable agreement and jointly held motivation to keep costs to a minimum.
The moment there is a difference to settle, it can get exceedingly expensive.
Yes that is correct and the way we did I it.
We have a written parenting plan which covers holidays, weekly arrangements, if kids are sick etc. You only need the court involved if you are in dispute.
You are planning on it anyway but it is essential your consent order is stamped by the court.
Just bear in mind that people talk to other people who always have a view and suddenly a fair settlement becomes grossly unreasonable etc etc etc.
Also the final gotcha is chattles. My lawyer Warned me and it was true. Who get what wedding present etc is very tricky.
Best of luck
We have a written parenting plan which covers holidays, weekly arrangements, if kids are sick etc. You only need the court involved if you are in dispute.
You are planning on it anyway but it is essential your consent order is stamped by the court.
Just bear in mind that people talk to other people who always have a view and suddenly a fair settlement becomes grossly unreasonable etc etc etc.
Also the final gotcha is chattles. My lawyer Warned me and it was true. Who get what wedding present etc is very tricky.
Best of luck
Many thanks, all!
Fortunately this is not for me but for the chap I've been helping with Child Arrangements Order stuff recently - he wishes to be rid of her as soon as possible, lol.
It was perhaps a poor/uninformed choice of words on my part.
I was referring to the fact that wikivorce says:
https://www.wikivorce.com/divorce/Services/Consent...
I am all for Plain English!
Good point made about parties changing their views following discussions with third parties... She will likely try to get anything she can, but as he has no savings, a paltry pension, more debts than money, and several children to support (not including hers) while living in social housing, and she is living on benefits 'because disabled' and never had a decent career beforehand, I'm hoping that neither party would be considered as owing the other a lot of cash in any settlement - therefore the aim is to try and seek 'Clean Break' with no ongoing commitments.
As for Chattels... he walked out of the family house and left everything, so I assume he might have some claim (if what he's read is correct) but he'd rather ignore that if it makes the process quicker.
Fortunately this is not for me but for the chap I've been helping with Child Arrangements Order stuff recently - he wishes to be rid of her as soon as possible, lol.
Breadvan72 said:
Legalese does NOT have to be used. Legalese should NEVER be used in ANY legal document. Any lawyer who uses legalese is not a lawyer to retain.
Thank you as always, BV!It was perhaps a poor/uninformed choice of words on my part.
I was referring to the fact that wikivorce says:
https://www.wikivorce.com/divorce/Services/Consent...
wikivorce said:
Frequently Asked Questions
1. Can you tell me a bit more about consent orders?
A consent order is a financial contract that is voluntarily and jointly agreed by a divorcing or divorced couple to finalise all financial obligations arising from their marriage.
...
A Consent Order is a legally binding financial agreement that should be:
- drafted by a solicitor
- signed by you and your ex-spouse after you have have both provided financial disclosure and taken legal advice
- reviewed and approved by a judge in a family court.
...
3. Can we write our own consent order?
The short answer is no. A consent order is a legally binding document that can be enforced by County Court or Magistrates Court, even High Court, for this and many other reasons a consent order must be written by a qualified solicitor. Some couples will write their own agreement and even have it witnessed thinking it will be fine, actually it isn't worth the paper its written on, it is not binding or enforceable in anyway. These documents are often very technical and include many factors most people not legally qualified would not think of, even if they did wording is very important, as with any legal document.
which I took to mean / summarise as 'legalese'.1. Can you tell me a bit more about consent orders?
A consent order is a financial contract that is voluntarily and jointly agreed by a divorcing or divorced couple to finalise all financial obligations arising from their marriage.
...
A Consent Order is a legally binding financial agreement that should be:
- drafted by a solicitor
- signed by you and your ex-spouse after you have have both provided financial disclosure and taken legal advice
- reviewed and approved by a judge in a family court.
...
3. Can we write our own consent order?
The short answer is no. A consent order is a legally binding document that can be enforced by County Court or Magistrates Court, even High Court, for this and many other reasons a consent order must be written by a qualified solicitor. Some couples will write their own agreement and even have it witnessed thinking it will be fine, actually it isn't worth the paper its written on, it is not binding or enforceable in anyway. These documents are often very technical and include many factors most people not legally qualified would not think of, even if they did wording is very important, as with any legal document.
I am all for Plain English!
Good point made about parties changing their views following discussions with third parties... She will likely try to get anything she can, but as he has no savings, a paltry pension, more debts than money, and several children to support (not including hers) while living in social housing, and she is living on benefits 'because disabled' and never had a decent career beforehand, I'm hoping that neither party would be considered as owing the other a lot of cash in any settlement - therefore the aim is to try and seek 'Clean Break' with no ongoing commitments.
As for Chattels... he walked out of the family house and left everything, so I assume he might have some claim (if what he's read is correct) but he'd rather ignore that if it makes the process quicker.
jesta1865 said:
my ex-wife and I did it ourselves, thankfully no kids involved.
we just filled out the forms for the council and paid any admin money they wanted etc.
didn't have solicitors involved.
we did talk and it was quite amicable as well.
Christ!! You lucky chap we just filled out the forms for the council and paid any admin money they wanted etc.
didn't have solicitors involved.
we did talk and it was quite amicable as well.
or you must have been skintPsycho Warren said:
theboss said:
Jeez... good luck shedding that quickly / painlessly / cheaply
thinking the same.This has the potential to end up FUBAR very quickly.
Spousal maintenance because she can't work?
lolMy understanding is:
- they both worked a bit, on the same (lower/'working class') wages, living in rented accommodation;
- they had the child;
- I'm not sure if she still did some work (I don't think so);
- at some point she became 'disabled' - i.e. hypochondria mixed with entitlement complex and some minor injury = 'too disabled to work' (despite any normal person with the same 'conditions' being able to work just fine in pretty much any non-manual-labour role);
- he walked out and left everything when the child was 6 or 7 but fought for continuing contact;
- they've now been separated for over 4 years with no spousal maintenance or child maintenance in either direction;
- she lives in a privately-owned rented house on whatever collection of benefits she's managed to pretend she needs, and we believe another of her children (now 18+) is living there and possibly paying her rent;
- he now lives in social housing with a partner and children from his new relationship.
The chap in question did have a half-hour or so freebie chat with a solicitor.
They suggested that due to the length of separation and the lack of any high-flier careers or pensions or assets, neither side really had any worthwhile/substantial claim on the other.
There was some discussion around whether he might be entitled to claim off her for Child Maintenance now the child lives with him the majority of the time, but it was not clear if this would be viable. (I note that a claim off her may be distasteful and likely not possible if the benefits are for her personally and she has no other income.)
That was the basis for the conclusion that a 'Clean Break' would just make things easier/quicker/cheaper - neither party has anything worth fighting for, and surely with his new children to look after as well, any child maintenance claims could only be small if she was successful??
Edited by RSTurboPaul on Thursday 26th November 14:51
I was just thinking worst case! If youve read any of the threads on here on divorce etc, there are some full retard horror stories that beggar belief in terms of how FUBAR things get and how, with the wrong advice you can get totally screwed in more ways than one financially even if it seems totally unfair and unreasonable.
I imagine if he hasn't got a pot to piss in, then they can't take what he doesn't have. Also child maintenance is all done by the calculators so with no income, I doubt either side would pay much if any maintenance.
But if things go psycho, it seems all bets are off!
You can get proper f
ked even if you're not married and they are not your kids.
I imagine if he hasn't got a pot to piss in, then they can't take what he doesn't have. Also child maintenance is all done by the calculators so with no income, I doubt either side would pay much if any maintenance.
But if things go psycho, it seems all bets are off!
You can get proper f
ked even if you're not married and they are not your kids. She has no real incentive to co-operative in agreeing a 'clean break'. Not having one, is a bit like owning an open-ended lottery ticket. He could inherit, win the lottery, get a life insurance payout etc. in the next 20 years and she'd be after him for a financial settlement like a rat up a drain pipe. Or vice versa, it goes both ways.
If his motive is to be able to re-marry he should probably just go for the cheapest possible route by petitioning for a divorce, paying the fee and asking for her co-operation.
If she's amenable to signing a consent order then do it, but if not he'll just have to live in the knowledge she could come after him he came into significant good fortune.
If his motive is to be able to re-marry he should probably just go for the cheapest possible route by petitioning for a divorce, paying the fee and asking for her co-operation.
If she's amenable to signing a consent order then do it, but if not he'll just have to live in the knowledge she could come after him he came into significant good fortune.
Psycho Warren said:
I was just thinking worst case! If youve read any of the threads on here on divorce etc, there are some full retard horror stories that beggar belief in terms of how FUBAR things get and how, with the wrong advice you can get totally screwed in more ways than one financially even if it seems totally unfair and unreasonable.
I imagine if he hasn't got a pot to piss in, then they can't take what he doesn't have. Also child maintenance is all done by the calculators so with no income, I doubt either side would pay much if any maintenance.
But if things go psycho, it seems all bets are off!
You can get proper fked even if you're not married and they are not your kids.
Many of those stories are likely to be BS written by embittered macho men who did not bother to take sensible advice, and/or who flaunted their misogyny to little effect, and are now up a clock tower dressed as Batman. I imagine if he hasn't got a pot to piss in, then they can't take what he doesn't have. Also child maintenance is all done by the calculators so with no income, I doubt either side would pay much if any maintenance.
But if things go psycho, it seems all bets are off!
You can get proper f
ked even if you're not married and they are not your kids. I had a free 1/2 hour session with a solicitor courtesy of my professional association re divorce.
I explained what we had agreed - no kids, both working with reasonable jobs / pensions etc
Solicitor said there was no way my now ex wife would agree to this and I definitely needed a solicitor
They sent me a quote to represent my interests, IIRC around £18K for starters but open ended so probably over £40K would vanish from our combined finances
I declined their kind offer and we continued
Total cost was a lot less than £1k - and we wrote up our own clean break agreement which the judge was happy with.
It can be done
I explained what we had agreed - no kids, both working with reasonable jobs / pensions etc
Solicitor said there was no way my now ex wife would agree to this and I definitely needed a solicitor
They sent me a quote to represent my interests, IIRC around £18K for starters but open ended so probably over £40K would vanish from our combined finances
I declined their kind offer and we continued
Total cost was a lot less than £1k - and we wrote up our own clean break agreement which the judge was happy with.
It can be done
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