Non Delivery of Parcel Advice
Discussion
A little bit of advice please.
I recently ordered a new EBike battery (not cheap at almost £500) online. It's from a website I've used a few times before and not had any issues with. It should have arrived a few days ago.
I had an email today thanking me for my purchase, hoping it was all OK. The usual type of message you get once the package has been delivered. I checked the tracking link they'd sent me and it showed as delivered last Saturday. Postage was by royal mail tracked, but not signed for. I've checked with the neighbors and they don't have it.
The company has told me to go to the local royal mail office with a written complaint, and once I've done that (with proof, somehow) they will look into it. I've mentioned to them that the contract is with them, not RM, so it's for them to deal with, but they've pretty much told me to go do one.
Before I go any further (and possible try credit card claim back), am I in the right to think it should be for them to resolve with RM not me?
Any advice? Thanks in advance.
I recently ordered a new EBike battery (not cheap at almost £500) online. It's from a website I've used a few times before and not had any issues with. It should have arrived a few days ago.
I had an email today thanking me for my purchase, hoping it was all OK. The usual type of message you get once the package has been delivered. I checked the tracking link they'd sent me and it showed as delivered last Saturday. Postage was by royal mail tracked, but not signed for. I've checked with the neighbors and they don't have it.
The company has told me to go to the local royal mail office with a written complaint, and once I've done that (with proof, somehow) they will look into it. I've mentioned to them that the contract is with them, not RM, so it's for them to deal with, but they've pretty much told me to go do one.
Before I go any further (and possible try credit card claim back), am I in the right to think it should be for them to resolve with RM not me?
Any advice? Thanks in advance.
You're correct. Seller has responsibility - not you,
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/somethi...
Might be just as easy to ask RM where they delivered it too first off.
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/somethi...
Might be just as easy to ask RM where they delivered it too first off.
Edited by Lonely on Thursday 3rd December 20:50
Tell the seller that the item was not delivered, if they want to dispute that, they must provide a proof of delivery.
Tell them they have seven working days to either send a replacement, or a full refund and that if they do neither you will contact your card issuer to request a chargeback.
If you paid the seller for delivery, it is the seller's responsibility to get the goods to your doorstep. Any shenanigans with the courier are entirely the sellers problem.
If you used a credit card, the card provider are obliged to refund you under the consumer credit act. If you used a debit card, there is a similar voluntary scheme run. In practise it how you paid shouldn't affect the outcome, but you may need to be a bit more insistent with the bank if you used a debit card.
Your card provider will require proof that the vendor isn't playing ball. A copy of the emails sent should do nicely, especially if you have sent the one above and have had either no response or a negative response.
Hope that helps & good luck.
Tell them they have seven working days to either send a replacement, or a full refund and that if they do neither you will contact your card issuer to request a chargeback.
If you paid the seller for delivery, it is the seller's responsibility to get the goods to your doorstep. Any shenanigans with the courier are entirely the sellers problem.
If you used a credit card, the card provider are obliged to refund you under the consumer credit act. If you used a debit card, there is a similar voluntary scheme run. In practise it how you paid shouldn't affect the outcome, but you may need to be a bit more insistent with the bank if you used a debit card.
Your card provider will require proof that the vendor isn't playing ball. A copy of the emails sent should do nicely, especially if you have sent the one above and have had either no response or a negative response.
Hope that helps & good luck.
mikeveal said:
Tell the seller that the item was not delivered, if they want to dispute that, they must provide a proof of delivery.
Tell them they have seven working days to either send a replacement, or a full refund and that if they do neither you will contact your card issuer to request a chargeback.
If you paid the seller for delivery, it is the seller's responsibility to get the goods to your doorstep. Any shenanigans with the courier are entirely the sellers problem.
If you used a credit card, the card provider are obliged to refund you under the consumer credit act. If you used a debit card, there is a similar voluntary scheme run. In practise it how you paid shouldn't affect the outcome, but you may need to be a bit more insistent with the bank if you used a debit card.
Your card provider will require proof that the vendor isn't playing ball. A copy of the emails sent should do nicely, especially if you have sent the one above and have had either no response or a negative response.
Hope that helps & good luck.
How many parcels have you physically signed for in the last 9 months? I've not signed for any of mine - we're lucky if they even ring the bell before opening the porch door and dropping something off!Tell them they have seven working days to either send a replacement, or a full refund and that if they do neither you will contact your card issuer to request a chargeback.
If you paid the seller for delivery, it is the seller's responsibility to get the goods to your doorstep. Any shenanigans with the courier are entirely the sellers problem.
If you used a credit card, the card provider are obliged to refund you under the consumer credit act. If you used a debit card, there is a similar voluntary scheme run. In practise it how you paid shouldn't affect the outcome, but you may need to be a bit more insistent with the bank if you used a debit card.
Your card provider will require proof that the vendor isn't playing ball. A copy of the emails sent should do nicely, especially if you have sent the one above and have had either no response or a negative response.
Hope that helps & good luck.
We've had 2 instances where the postman has clicked his thingy to say it's been delivered, only to find the porch door locked (when we're out) - and then taken it back to the sorting office for us to pick up once we've realised it didn't get delivered when it said it had.
In those case we had to check the tracking ourselves to see what time it was supposedly delivered, and the realise we were out, so simply call the local sorting office to check. In both cases they've had it.
I'm sure the seller will point to the Royal Mail tracking sayings it has been delivered as proof that it has been...so the buyer will have to jump through hoops to satisfy the seller that it din't get delivered.
I'll just leave this here:
Proof of delivery? Certainly Sir
I don't know "Charlotte Barker" but someone pointed me at this the other day.
Proof of delivery? Certainly Sir
I don't know "Charlotte Barker" but someone pointed me at this the other day.
Of all of the parcels I've received requiring POD since March a few have had a signature, all the others took a photo of the package being delivered.
No POD, no delivery. No delivery, no POD. Covid hasn't changed anything there. There are no hoops to jump through, unless you think that asking for proof of delivery is a hoop.
This was sent tracked, not signed for. Royal mail do not provide proof of delivery on that service, so if the customer says he hasn't received his item, the vendor doesn't have a leg to stand on. More fool the vendor.
No POD, no delivery. No delivery, no POD. Covid hasn't changed anything there. There are no hoops to jump through, unless you think that asking for proof of delivery is a hoop.
This was sent tracked, not signed for. Royal mail do not provide proof of delivery on that service, so if the customer says he hasn't received his item, the vendor doesn't have a leg to stand on. More fool the vendor.
Many thanks for all the advice so far.
I have spoken to the local sorting office again and they still say they dont have the parcel. I was out when they say it was delivered, and the front of the house is near a footpath so half wonder if it was left by the door and someone has seen it and had it away. I've had a few parcels left like that over the last few months even when i've been in. I would have thought for a £500 item they would have asked for a signature though.
I've spoken to the company again and they still say to submit a written complaint to my nearest post office and they will then consider trying to help. I'll do as sugested above and give them 7 days to rezolce or I'll seek a claim back througn the crecit card company.
I have spoken to the local sorting office again and they still say they dont have the parcel. I was out when they say it was delivered, and the front of the house is near a footpath so half wonder if it was left by the door and someone has seen it and had it away. I've had a few parcels left like that over the last few months even when i've been in. I would have thought for a £500 item they would have asked for a signature though.
I've spoken to the company again and they still say to submit a written complaint to my nearest post office and they will then consider trying to help. I'll do as sugested above and give them 7 days to rezolce or I'll seek a claim back througn the crecit card company.
The problem you have is Royal Mail showing as delivered via tracking is proof enough for PayPal - and leading on from this I expect enough for a credit card company too.
They have something saying the item was delivered by the company contracted to do so - how do you prove otherwise?
They have something saying the item was delivered by the company contracted to do so - how do you prove otherwise?
My wife runs a mail order business and she has had a similar scenario a few times recently. Fairly bulky items, value £150-£200, all sent using Royal Mail tracked and in each case the customer says they have not received it, but Royal Mail say it was delivered. She says Royal Mail can offer nothing further other than it was delivered. No signature (not that you get that with Tracked anyway), no GPS log or photo of the delivery taking place.
She says she believes the customers when they say they have not received their parcels but is at a loss as to what to do next. I don’t think a chargeback from the customer would succeed as she can show delivery on Royal Mail’s system, but she’s more worried about the poor feedback she will get from the customers on social media if she doesn’t send replacements. It seems to me that the Royal Mail Tracked service is not really fit for purpose if RM can’t offer anymore than “it was delivered” when something goes wrong.
She says she believes the customers when they say they have not received their parcels but is at a loss as to what to do next. I don’t think a chargeback from the customer would succeed as she can show delivery on Royal Mail’s system, but she’s more worried about the poor feedback she will get from the customers on social media if she doesn’t send replacements. It seems to me that the Royal Mail Tracked service is not really fit for purpose if RM can’t offer anymore than “it was delivered” when something goes wrong.
mattyprice4004 said:
The problem you have is Royal Mail showing as delivered via tracking is proof enough for PayPal - and leading on from this I expect enough for a credit card company too.
They have something saying the item was delivered by the company contracted to do so - how do you prove otherwise?
Who is more likely to be telling the truth? The recipient, or some underpaid courier? I have had my signature forged by couriers on several occasions- in those cases just to make it look as if an item was delivered on time, not to steal it, and those parcels turned up- so the courier was only aiming to deceive their employers. But it shows the level of honesty and lack of concern for risk of detection of fraud.They have something saying the item was delivered by the company contracted to do so - how do you prove otherwise?
.
As far as I (and most people?) am concerned a parcel has been delivered to me when it is physically through my letterbox or in my hand- leaving it lying around outside is not delivery, so a photograph of the item on the doorstep is surely proof of failure to deliver.
I would be happy with the way things used to work- all deliveries used to go back to the sorting office if they could not be delivered. If RM have decided that that is now too much trouble they need to pick up the costs of their short cuts. They are enjoying an absolute bonanza of parcel custom!
Hi Postie here,
Go down to your local delivery office in person, we dont have enough staff in this covid era to answer the phone as we are all out delivering. Talk to the office manager and give him your tracking number. They can see where the parcel was scanned at in case it had the incorrect address was on it or it was misdelivered and talk to the delivering postie.
We are really busy at the moment much worse than previous christmas's and we do have some agency staff out helping with parcels as well.
Im sure the manager will do everything they can to help find out whats happened.
Go down to your local delivery office in person, we dont have enough staff in this covid era to answer the phone as we are all out delivering. Talk to the office manager and give him your tracking number. They can see where the parcel was scanned at in case it had the incorrect address was on it or it was misdelivered and talk to the delivering postie.
We are really busy at the moment much worse than previous christmas's and we do have some agency staff out helping with parcels as well.
Im sure the manager will do everything they can to help find out whats happened.
mattyprice4004 said:
The problem you have is Royal Mail showing as delivered via tracking is proof enough for PayPal - and leading on from this I expect enough for a credit card company too.
They have something saying the item was delivered by the company contracted to do so - how do you prove otherwise?
I think the bigger problem is the fact that neither party involved can actually prove what has happened.They have something saying the item was delivered by the company contracted to do so - how do you prove otherwise?
Yes RM can say it has been delivered by some technical device which has been actioned by a human. OP cannot (from what we know) prove he hasn't received it.
I used to find it strange when couriers asked to take a photo of the delivery actually inside my house, but now I find it strange when they don't!
I had one the other day, £150 bit of electronic kit, was sent via RM signed for. I was in the shower, heard a knock on the door, by the time I'd got to the door, the RM van was driving off, parcel was propped up against the door.
Since COVID they have not required a signature, problem is they are now using this as an excuse to drop and go.
Since COVID they have not required a signature, problem is they are now using this as an excuse to drop and go.
TheLurker said:
Many thanks for all the advice so far.
I have spoken to the local sorting office again and they still say they dont have the parcel. I was out when they say it was delivered, and the front of the house is near a footpath so half wonder if it was left by the door and someone has seen it and had it away. I've had a few parcels left like that over the last few months even when i've been in. I would have thought for a £500 item they would have asked for a signature though.
I've spoken to the company again and they still say to submit a written complaint to my nearest post office and they will then consider trying to help. I'll do as sugested above and give them 7 days to rezolce or I'll seek a claim back througn the crecit card company.
They should be able to give you more information than that.I have spoken to the local sorting office again and they still say they dont have the parcel. I was out when they say it was delivered, and the front of the house is near a footpath so half wonder if it was left by the door and someone has seen it and had it away. I've had a few parcels left like that over the last few months even when i've been in. I would have thought for a £500 item they would have asked for a signature though.
I've spoken to the company again and they still say to submit a written complaint to my nearest post office and they will then consider trying to help. I'll do as sugested above and give them 7 days to rezolce or I'll seek a claim back througn the crecit card company.
The managers can see what postman delivered it and exactly where it was scanned as delivered , so if you live at 1 station view and it was mistakenly delivered to 1 station green they can see the mistake and get the postie to try and get it back.
Like a500 said its mega busy this year so the staff who'd normally answer the phone are probably out delivering.
Lonely said:
I think the bigger problem is the fact that neither party involved can actually prove what has happened.
Yes RM can say it has been delivered by some technical device which has been actioned by a human. OP cannot (from what we know) prove he hasn't received it.
The vendor must prove that the item was delivered. It is impossible for the recipient to prove that it didn't arrive.Yes RM can say it has been delivered by some technical device which has been actioned by a human. OP cannot (from what we know) prove he hasn't received it.
In this case the vendor chose to use a delivery system that does not provide proof. That means if a customer complains about non delivery, they can not prove otherwise. It was a very foolish thing to do on a high value item, but that is not the vendors problem, not the OPs.
It doesn't matter what the courier says, the courier can not prove delivery ergo the vendor can not.
mac96 said:
Who is more likely to be telling the truth? The recipient, or some underpaid courier? I have had my signature forged by couriers on several occasions- in those cases just to make it look as if an item was delivered on time, not to steal it, and those parcels turned up- so the courier was only aiming to deceive their employers. But it shows the level of honesty and lack of concern for risk of detection of fraud.
.
As far as I (and most people?) am concerned a parcel has been delivered to me when it is physically through my letterbox or in my hand- leaving it lying around outside is not delivery, so a photograph of the item on the doorstep is surely proof of failure to deliver.
I would be happy with the way things used to work- all deliveries used to go back to the sorting office if they could not be delivered. If RM have decided that that is now too much trouble they need to pick up the costs of their short cuts. They are enjoying an absolute bonanza of parcel custom!
It does get rather tedious when morons repeatedly order their Internet tat to be delivered to their home address even though they know full well they're not going to be home during the day to accept delivery of it..
As far as I (and most people?) am concerned a parcel has been delivered to me when it is physically through my letterbox or in my hand- leaving it lying around outside is not delivery, so a photograph of the item on the doorstep is surely proof of failure to deliver.
I would be happy with the way things used to work- all deliveries used to go back to the sorting office if they could not be delivered. If RM have decided that that is now too much trouble they need to pick up the costs of their short cuts. They are enjoying an absolute bonanza of parcel custom!
megaphone said:
I had one the other day, £150 bit of electronic kit, was sent via RM signed for. I was in the shower, heard a knock on the door, by the time I'd got to the door, the RM van was driving off, parcel was propped up against the door.
Since COVID they have not required a signature, problem is they are now using this as an excuse to drop and go.
That shouldnt be happening, but so you know the pressure we are under we are trying to deliver 40 parcels an hour. Or less than 2 minutes to drive to an address, get the correct parcel, get to your front and knock on wait for a reply and drive to the next address.Since COVID they have not required a signature, problem is they are now using this as an excuse to drop and go.
mike74 said:
mac96 said:
Who is more likely to be telling the truth? The recipient, or some underpaid courier? I have had my signature forged by couriers on several occasions- in those cases just to make it look as if an item was delivered on time, not to steal it, and those parcels turned up- so the courier was only aiming to deceive their employers. But it shows the level of honesty and lack of concern for risk of detection of fraud.
.
As far as I (and most people?) am concerned a parcel has been delivered to me when it is physically through my letterbox or in my hand- leaving it lying around outside is not delivery, so a photograph of the item on the doorstep is surely proof of failure to deliver.
I would be happy with the way things used to work- all deliveries used to go back to the sorting office if they could not be delivered. If RM have decided that that is now too much trouble they need to pick up the costs of their short cuts. They are enjoying an absolute bonanza of parcel custom!
It does get rather tedious when morons repeatedly order their Internet tat to be delivered to their home address even though they know full well they're not going to be home during the day to accept delivery of it..
As far as I (and most people?) am concerned a parcel has been delivered to me when it is physically through my letterbox or in my hand- leaving it lying around outside is not delivery, so a photograph of the item on the doorstep is surely proof of failure to deliver.
I would be happy with the way things used to work- all deliveries used to go back to the sorting office if they could not be delivered. If RM have decided that that is now too much trouble they need to pick up the costs of their short cuts. They are enjoying an absolute bonanza of parcel custom!
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