NIP - 14 days?
Discussion
Apologies in advance as this has no doubt been covered elsewhere before, but I'm in a rush with Christmas.
I am in receipt of a NIP dated 22/12/2020 for speeding at 37mph in a 30mph zone. Alleged offence is 11:18 on 13th November 2020.
Am I correct in thinking the NIP has to be issued within 14 days of the offence, therefore this falls outside the timescale, being over a month later? And if so what is the best way to proceed?
I have already dropped AGTLaw an email, but am rather on tenterhooks at the moment, so any opinions appreicated!
TIA.
I am in receipt of a NIP dated 22/12/2020 for speeding at 37mph in a 30mph zone. Alleged offence is 11:18 on 13th November 2020.
Am I correct in thinking the NIP has to be issued within 14 days of the offence, therefore this falls outside the timescale, being over a month later? And if so what is the best way to proceed?
I have already dropped AGTLaw an email, but am rather on tenterhooks at the moment, so any opinions appreicated!
TIA.
My understanding is this is indeed outside the time frame but if the police have good reasons for the delay, you are still in trouble.
Those reasons tend to be DVLA records not being updated, you were in a hired car etc etc.
If you know the DVLA records are up to date (no recent name change/owner change) then you should be on pretty solid ground to say 'sorry, served too late'.
Above is just an opinion though, I am not a lawyer or that.
Those reasons tend to be DVLA records not being updated, you were in a hired car etc etc.
If you know the DVLA records are up to date (no recent name change/owner change) then you should be on pretty solid ground to say 'sorry, served too late'.
Above is just an opinion though, I am not a lawyer or that.
jondude said:
My understanding is this is indeed outside the time frame but if the police have good reasons for the delay, you are still in trouble.
Those reasons tend to be DVLA records not being updated, you were in a hired car etc etc.
If you know the DVLA records are up to date (no recent name change/owner change) then you should be on pretty solid ground to say 'sorry, served too late'.
Above is just an opinion though, I am not a lawyer or that.
Cheers.That was my understaing too. I changed the address on my driving licence in mid-October, so it is possible the unit attempted to send a letter to my old address depending on DVLA timings etc, so that could be the reason. Those reasons tend to be DVLA records not being updated, you were in a hired car etc etc.
If you know the DVLA records are up to date (no recent name change/owner change) then you should be on pretty solid ground to say 'sorry, served too late'.
Above is just an opinion though, I am not a lawyer or that.
I'll await AGTLaw's advice before proceeding!
ShortShift811 said:
Cheers.That was my understaing too. I changed the address on my driving licence in mid-October, so it is possible the unit attempted to send a letter to my old address depending on DVLA timings etc, so that could be the reason.
I'll await AGTLaw's advice before proceeding!
I don't think the address of your DL is relevant. What address is on your V5? And who is the keeper named on it?I'll await AGTLaw's advice before proceeding!
Bert
It is only the first NIp that has a time limit and this must be with the registered keeper within 14 days.
Are you the registered keeper (ie. do you have the V5C (logbook) in your possession? If the vehicle is a company car or is leased/on finance you probably won't be the registered keeper so the 14 day rule wouldn't apply.
Have you recently bought the vehicle or moved house? The police will get the registered keeper's name and address from the DVLA and can only use whatever details the DVLA have at the time. It can take a few weeks for DVLA to update records.
If you have the V5C in your possession are the address details 100% accurate or could a first NIP have gone to a different address?
Even if you are the registered keeper, the details on the V5C are correct and up to date, and this is the first NIP, you still have to reply naming whoever was the driver at the time. There is no time liimt for this and the penalty for not replying is 6 points, an income related fine (typically £500 or more if you are on an average salary) plus court costs etc., which could easily bring the toal to around £800. You will also get an endorsement code on your licence that insurance companies really don't like and which will likely bump up your premiums for a few years.
When you reply to the NIP it would do no harm to enclose a covering letter pointing out that if this is the first NIP it is out of time. If it isn't the first NIP you should at least get a reply telling you where the first one was sent.
It is possible that the first NIP was sent to you and was lost in the post and that this one is a reminder,
Are you the registered keeper (ie. do you have the V5C (logbook) in your possession? If the vehicle is a company car or is leased/on finance you probably won't be the registered keeper so the 14 day rule wouldn't apply.
Have you recently bought the vehicle or moved house? The police will get the registered keeper's name and address from the DVLA and can only use whatever details the DVLA have at the time. It can take a few weeks for DVLA to update records.
If you have the V5C in your possession are the address details 100% accurate or could a first NIP have gone to a different address?
Even if you are the registered keeper, the details on the V5C are correct and up to date, and this is the first NIP, you still have to reply naming whoever was the driver at the time. There is no time liimt for this and the penalty for not replying is 6 points, an income related fine (typically £500 or more if you are on an average salary) plus court costs etc., which could easily bring the toal to around £800. You will also get an endorsement code on your licence that insurance companies really don't like and which will likely bump up your premiums for a few years.
When you reply to the NIP it would do no harm to enclose a covering letter pointing out that if this is the first NIP it is out of time. If it isn't the first NIP you should at least get a reply telling you where the first one was sent.
It is possible that the first NIP was sent to you and was lost in the post and that this one is a reminder,
ShortShift811 said:
jondude said:
My understanding is this is indeed outside the time frame but if the police have good reasons for the delay, you are still in trouble.
Those reasons tend to be DVLA records not being updated, you were in a hired car etc etc.
If you know the DVLA records are up to date (no recent name change/owner change) then you should be on pretty solid ground to say 'sorry, served too late'.
Above is just an opinion though, I am not a lawyer or that.
Cheers.That was my understaing too. I changed the address on my driving licence in mid-October, so it is possible the unit attempted to send a letter to my old address depending on DVLA timings etc, so that could be the reason. Those reasons tend to be DVLA records not being updated, you were in a hired car etc etc.
If you know the DVLA records are up to date (no recent name change/owner change) then you should be on pretty solid ground to say 'sorry, served too late'.
Above is just an opinion though, I am not a lawyer or that.
I'll await AGTLaw's advice before proceeding!
douglasb said:
It is only the first NIp that has a time limit and this must be with the registered keeper within 14 days.
Are you the registered keeper (ie. do you have the V5C (logbook) in your possession? If the vehicle is a company car or is leased/on finance you probably won't be the registered keeper so the 14 day rule wouldn't apply.
Have you recently bought the vehicle or moved house? The police will get the registered keeper's name and address from the DVLA and can only use whatever details the DVLA have at the time. It can take a few weeks for DVLA to update records.
If you have the V5C in your possession are the address details 100% accurate or could a first NIP have gone to a different address?
Even if you are the registered keeper, the details on the V5C are correct and up to date, and this is the first NIP, you still have to reply naming whoever was the driver at the time. There is no time liimt for this and the penalty for not replying is 6 points, an income related fine (typically £500 or more if you are on an average salary) plus court costs etc., which could easily bring the toal to around £800. You will also get an endorsement code on your licence that insurance companies really don't like and which will likely bump up your premiums for a few years.
When you reply to the NIP it would do no harm to enclose a covering letter pointing out that if this is the first NIP it is out of time. If it isn't the first NIP you should at least get a reply telling you where the first one was sent.
It is possible that the first NIP was sent to you and was lost in the post and that this one is a reminder,
It does. Are you the registered keeper (ie. do you have the V5C (logbook) in your possession? If the vehicle is a company car or is leased/on finance you probably won't be the registered keeper so the 14 day rule wouldn't apply.
Have you recently bought the vehicle or moved house? The police will get the registered keeper's name and address from the DVLA and can only use whatever details the DVLA have at the time. It can take a few weeks for DVLA to update records.
If you have the V5C in your possession are the address details 100% accurate or could a first NIP have gone to a different address?
Even if you are the registered keeper, the details on the V5C are correct and up to date, and this is the first NIP, you still have to reply naming whoever was the driver at the time. There is no time liimt for this and the penalty for not replying is 6 points, an income related fine (typically £500 or more if you are on an average salary) plus court costs etc., which could easily bring the toal to around £800. You will also get an endorsement code on your licence that insurance companies really don't like and which will likely bump up your premiums for a few years.
When you reply to the NIP it would do no harm to enclose a covering letter pointing out that if this is the first NIP it is out of time. If it isn't the first NIP you should at least get a reply telling you where the first one was sent.
It is possible that the first NIP was sent to you and was lost in the post and that this one is a reminder,
The original NIP must be served on the RK within the 14 days.
If a lease/hire company is the RK they should have received the original as required - in which case the service is good - & will have given your details.
Edited by paintman on Thursday 24th December 13:42
paintman said:
It does.
The original NIP must be served on the RK within the 14 days.
If a lease/hire company is the RK they should have received the original as required - in which case the service is good - & will have given your details.
What Douglas means is the 14 day rule won't apply to the Keeper / driver assuming they are one and the same, as they are not the Registered keeper and won't have received the first NIP. I understood it ok!The original NIP must be served on the RK within the 14 days.
If a lease/hire company is the RK they should have received the original as required - in which case the service is good - & will have given your details.
Edited by paintman on Thursday 24th December 13:42
All valid points and understood, thanks.
This looks very much like a first NIP and there is nothing to suggest otherwise - if it was a second or third chaser, would a letter usually state that anywhere?
I believe I am the registered keeper on the V5C (currently trying to locate the document and have emailed the DVLA), but I did change address earlier this year - until I find the V5C, genuinely cannot remember if I changed the address on that, so it is possible the police attempted to send the NIP to my former address. There is no indication on the NIP I have dated 22/12 that there have been any former attempts however.
Looks like I have a bit of a wait over Christmas while I establish the full information and see what, if any, defence I have.
This looks very much like a first NIP and there is nothing to suggest otherwise - if it was a second or third chaser, would a letter usually state that anywhere?
I believe I am the registered keeper on the V5C (currently trying to locate the document and have emailed the DVLA), but I did change address earlier this year - until I find the V5C, genuinely cannot remember if I changed the address on that, so it is possible the police attempted to send the NIP to my former address. There is no indication on the NIP I have dated 22/12 that there have been any former attempts however.
Looks like I have a bit of a wait over Christmas while I establish the full information and see what, if any, defence I have.
ShortShift811 said:
All valid points and understood, thanks.
This looks very much like a first NIP and there is nothing to suggest otherwise - if it was a second or third chaser, would a letter usually state that anywhere?
I believe I am the registered keeper on the V5C (currently trying to locate the document and have emailed the DVLA), but I did change address earlier this year - until I find the V5C, genuinely cannot remember if I changed the address on that, so it is possible the police attempted to send the NIP to my former address. There is no indication on the NIP I have dated 22/12 that there have been any former attempts however.
Looks like I have a bit of a wait over Christmas while I establish the full information and see what, if any, defence I have.
You won't have any defence whatsoever. This looks very much like a first NIP and there is nothing to suggest otherwise - if it was a second or third chaser, would a letter usually state that anywhere?
I believe I am the registered keeper on the V5C (currently trying to locate the document and have emailed the DVLA), but I did change address earlier this year - until I find the V5C, genuinely cannot remember if I changed the address on that, so it is possible the police attempted to send the NIP to my former address. There is no indication on the NIP I have dated 22/12 that there have been any former attempts however.
Looks like I have a bit of a wait over Christmas while I establish the full information and see what, if any, defence I have.
You may have a loophole you can use.
Big difference.
mickyh7 said:
ShortShift811 said:
All valid points and understood, thanks.
This looks very much like a first NIP and there is nothing to suggest otherwise - if it was a second or third chaser, would a letter usually state that anywhere?
I believe I am the registered keeper on the V5C (currently trying to locate the document and have emailed the DVLA), but I did change address earlier this year - until I find the V5C, genuinely cannot remember if I changed the address on that, so it is possible the police attempted to send the NIP to my former address. There is no indication on the NIP I have dated 22/12 that there have been any former attempts however.
Looks like I have a bit of a wait over Christmas while I establish the full information and see what, if any, defence I have.
You won't have any defence whatsoever. This looks very much like a first NIP and there is nothing to suggest otherwise - if it was a second or third chaser, would a letter usually state that anywhere?
I believe I am the registered keeper on the V5C (currently trying to locate the document and have emailed the DVLA), but I did change address earlier this year - until I find the V5C, genuinely cannot remember if I changed the address on that, so it is possible the police attempted to send the NIP to my former address. There is no indication on the NIP I have dated 22/12 that there have been any former attempts however.
Looks like I have a bit of a wait over Christmas while I establish the full information and see what, if any, defence I have.
You may have a loophole you can use.
Big difference.
So long as the Police sent the original NIP to the recorded registered keepers address, in such a time that it would be expected to be received within 14 days, then they have fulfilled their legal obligation.
The "second" NIP does not have a 14 day time limit on it, and as far as I'm aware (I'm happy to be corrected on this), does not have to specify that it is a follow up NIP.
In addition, if the OP hasn't updated the registered keeper's address, they could also face a £1000 fine.
4rephill said:
If the registered keepers address on the V5C has not been updated, there is no loophole.
So long as the Police sent the original NIP to the recorded registered keepers address, in such a time that it would be expected to be received within 14 days, then they have fulfilled their legal obligation.
The "second" NIP does not have a 14 day time limit on it, and as far as I'm aware (I'm happy to be corrected on this), does not have to specify that it is a follow up NIP.
In addition, if the OP hasn't updated the registered keeper's address, they could also face a £1000 fine.
But if the RK's details have not been updated on the V5 how has the second NIP (if thats the case) managed to find the OP?So long as the Police sent the original NIP to the recorded registered keepers address, in such a time that it would be expected to be received within 14 days, then they have fulfilled their legal obligation.
The "second" NIP does not have a 14 day time limit on it, and as far as I'm aware (I'm happy to be corrected on this), does not have to specify that it is a follow up NIP.
In addition, if the OP hasn't updated the registered keeper's address, they could also face a £1000 fine.
Maybe the first NOIP was opened and returned by the new occupant of the address, providing a forwarding address to the Police.
Maybe the first NOIP was returnedby the new occupant of the address, and the Police used the address details from the insurance page of the PNC record.
Just some guesses.
Maybe the first NOIP was returnedby the new occupant of the address, and the Police used the address details from the insurance page of the PNC record.
Just some guesses.
XR said:
But if the RK's details have not been updated on the V5 how has the second NIP (if thats the case) managed to find the OP?
I believe it is common that if a NIP goes completely unanswered, the police may decide to check insurance details and send the reminder NIP to the details found there.Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff