What are the penalties for fitting retrofit LED bulbs?
Discussion
Hi All.
I asked my car insurance company if my policy would still be valid if I fitted (high end) aftermarket LED bulbs in my halogen projector (dipped beam) headlights. I got it in writing that they were happy to cover the specific LEDs I mentioned, and my policy would not be invalidated.
I understand that my car might still fail the MOT if the tester noticed this retrofit, especially as the MOT rules have recently changed to flag this. Fair enough.
Even so, assuming the car passed it's MOT with retrofit LEDs (as I don't expect the MOT tester will be familiar with what cars have what light technology), what are the potential penalties that I could face for carrying out this modification?
To be clear, I'm not going to do this modification. I was interested initially after finding out I had insurance cover, but I'm not convinced it is worth the risk and I don't want to spend £160 on bulbs!
Thanks.
I asked my car insurance company if my policy would still be valid if I fitted (high end) aftermarket LED bulbs in my halogen projector (dipped beam) headlights. I got it in writing that they were happy to cover the specific LEDs I mentioned, and my policy would not be invalidated.
I understand that my car might still fail the MOT if the tester noticed this retrofit, especially as the MOT rules have recently changed to flag this. Fair enough.
Even so, assuming the car passed it's MOT with retrofit LEDs (as I don't expect the MOT tester will be familiar with what cars have what light technology), what are the potential penalties that I could face for carrying out this modification?
To be clear, I'm not going to do this modification. I was interested initially after finding out I had insurance cover, but I'm not convinced it is worth the risk and I don't want to spend £160 on bulbs!
Thanks.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/part/...
Danger or injury being that the type of thunder
who does this literally blinds everyone into crashing.
Secondly, there's danger or injury to yourself as every other roaduser has the right to lynch you.
Danger or injury being that the type of thunder
who does this literally blinds everyone into crashing.Secondly, there's danger or injury to yourself as every other roaduser has the right to lynch you.
I agree that the cheap / badly fitted ones are a menace. (As are many factory fit BMW and Audis it would seem if my commute is anything to go by).
Even so, the ones that emulate a halogen bulb light source geometry accurately have been approved for use in Germany (with specific cars), who have far stricter car rules I believe, so can't all be bad! (See Osram the H7 LED page)
Even so, the ones that emulate a halogen bulb light source geometry accurately have been approved for use in Germany (with specific cars), who have far stricter car rules I believe, so can't all be bad! (See Osram the H7 LED page)
watermoto said:
I agree that the cheap / badly fitted ones are a menace. (As are many factory fit BMW and Audis it would seem if my commute is anything to go by).
Even so, the ones that emulate a halogen bulb light source geometry accurately have been approved for use in Germany (with specific cars), who have far stricter car rules I believe, so can't all be bad! (See Osram the H7 LED page)
Says only suitable in LHD applications?Even so, the ones that emulate a halogen bulb light source geometry accurately have been approved for use in Germany (with specific cars), who have far stricter car rules I believe, so can't all be bad! (See Osram the H7 LED page)
LordHaveMurci said:
Says only suitable in LHD applications?
Yes, and only in Germany. I was only using it as an example to suggest that not all LED bulbs will "literally blinds everyone into crashing" as un1corn suggested. A LED bulb, when correctly designed, can be just as safe as a Halogen. (The page even claims "50% less glare"!)Now whether the ones I was interested work well, is another matter entirely!
Still intrigued to know what potential penalties a motorist could incur if they fitted a LED retrofit, it passed the MOT and their insurance company covered them. Also, intrigued to know why an insurance company would cover them in the first place!
Edited by watermoto on Wednesday 20th January 20:01
Edited by watermoto on Wednesday 20th January 20:01
From everything I've read (all be it anecdotal), if the car passes its MOT beam pattern check and there is no obvious external way of telling that the car is running non e-marked bulbs, then you'll get away with it. No MOT tester, or police check point, has the time to remove the headlight bulb to check whether it is kite marked or not. Nor, will they likely to know if the car is factory fit LED or not. Perhaps the MOT system will tell them this information.
Nor can I find any reference to anyone ever being prosecuted for running after market LEDs, all be it with my limited search ability.
So, I guess if you had a terrible accident and the car was inspected then you might get in (presumably serious) trouble.
Otherwise, people will just crack on and get away with it 99.9% of the time.
Be nice if the insurance company just said no though, as it is all too easy to read their response and assume all is ok.
Nor can I find any reference to anyone ever being prosecuted for running after market LEDs, all be it with my limited search ability.
So, I guess if you had a terrible accident and the car was inspected then you might get in (presumably serious) trouble.
Otherwise, people will just crack on and get away with it 99.9% of the time.
Be nice if the insurance company just said no though, as it is all too easy to read their response and assume all is ok.
Being an old chap, there's not many things that annoy me much any more. But this latest “Law”? on LED headlights has really got to me. How the hell can they justify it?
My Porsche Macan was originally fitted with halogen bulbs, and the first time I drove it at night, I had to stop & check the bloody things were actually illuminated! Just a pathetic yellow glow; positively dangerous and shame on Porsche for supplying the car with them. I did my research, and sourced LEDs from the USA which, apart from being much brighter, exactly emulate the beam pattern of the OE lights. You can buy slightly brighter standard bulbs, which have a different gas mix but don't last very long. You'd never be able to change a failed one by the side of the road at night, but that's OK...
So my headlights, save for their construction, fulfil all the criteria to pass the MoT. They use much less power, last a damn sight longer, and most importantly, are bright enough to drive with. They certainly don't dazzle oncoming traffic.
Bloody stupid - I wonder what little jobsworth decided on this?
My Porsche Macan was originally fitted with halogen bulbs, and the first time I drove it at night, I had to stop & check the bloody things were actually illuminated! Just a pathetic yellow glow; positively dangerous and shame on Porsche for supplying the car with them. I did my research, and sourced LEDs from the USA which, apart from being much brighter, exactly emulate the beam pattern of the OE lights. You can buy slightly brighter standard bulbs, which have a different gas mix but don't last very long. You'd never be able to change a failed one by the side of the road at night, but that's OK...
So my headlights, save for their construction, fulfil all the criteria to pass the MoT. They use much less power, last a damn sight longer, and most importantly, are bright enough to drive with. They certainly don't dazzle oncoming traffic.
Bloody stupid - I wonder what little jobsworth decided on this?
watermoto said:
So, I guess if you had a terrible accident and the car was inspected then you might get in (presumably serious) trouble.
Otherwise, people will just crack on and get away with it 99.9% of the time.
It will be perfectly fine.Otherwise, people will just crack on and get away with it 99.9% of the time.
As you say, In a projector housing, the cutoff would be perfect and any tester or examiner would have to explicitly open the headlight cap and remove the bulbs to see that they are LEDs.
Suffolk Tony said:
Being an old chap, there's not many things that annoy me much any more. But this latest “Law”? on LED headlights has really got to me. How the hell can they justify it?
My Porsche Macan was originally fitted with halogen bulbs, and the first time I drove it at night, I had to stop & check the bloody things were actually illuminated! Just a pathetic yellow glow; positively dangerous and shame on Porsche for supplying the car with them. I did my research, and sourced LEDs from the USA which, apart from being much brighter, exactly emulate the beam pattern of the OE lights. You can buy slightly brighter standard bulbs, which have a different gas mix but don't last very long. You'd never be able to change a failed one by the side of the road at night, but that's OK...
So my headlights, save for their construction, fulfil all the criteria to pass the MoT. They use much less power, last a damn sight longer, and most importantly, are bright enough to drive with. They certainly don't dazzle oncoming traffic.
Bloody stupid - I wonder what little jobsworth decided on this?
I truly do not understand people whinging and whining about things like this without actually stopping and thinking about it.My Porsche Macan was originally fitted with halogen bulbs, and the first time I drove it at night, I had to stop & check the bloody things were actually illuminated! Just a pathetic yellow glow; positively dangerous and shame on Porsche for supplying the car with them. I did my research, and sourced LEDs from the USA which, apart from being much brighter, exactly emulate the beam pattern of the OE lights. You can buy slightly brighter standard bulbs, which have a different gas mix but don't last very long. You'd never be able to change a failed one by the side of the road at night, but that's OK...
So my headlights, save for their construction, fulfil all the criteria to pass the MoT. They use much less power, last a damn sight longer, and most importantly, are bright enough to drive with. They certainly don't dazzle oncoming traffic.
Bloody stupid - I wonder what little jobsworth decided on this?
Why do you think these rules were bought in?
To annoy men in their Sportscars? Maybe more specific, just to annoy you?
Or, do you think it is far more likely the rules are there in an attempt to stop the 99% of aftermarket HID's and LED's fitted to cars which dazzle oncoming traffic, are a menace and are generally dangerous?
For every one person who may go off and buy a proper kit and attempt to make if safe, I can guarantee you there are 100 people who are slamming LED's into a car, not giving one little bit of thought about beam patterns and really don't care how dangerous the whole thing is.
There is no possible way a system could be introduced that would allow the testing and certification of each persons individual installs, so the far safer option is to outright ban the fitting of modern lighting into far from modern housing.
99%? Really? I wonder where you got that figure from...So the answer, as far as you're concerned, is to ban headlight conversions, no matter how professional they are. Fact is, if they're all so bad, they'd fail the MoT anyway. The answer, as with other aftermarket fitments for cars, is to have conversions officially approved, as they do with the halogen bulbs filled with different gasses.
Suffolk Tony said:
Being an old chap, there's not many things that annoy me much any more. But this latest “Law”? on LED headlights has really got to me. How the hell can they justify it?
My Porsche Macan was originally fitted with halogen bulbs, and the first time I drove it at night, I had to stop & check the bloody things were actually illuminated! Just a pathetic yellow glow; positively dangerous and shame on Porsche for supplying the car with them. I did my research, and sourced LEDs from the USA which, apart from being much brighter, exactly emulate the beam pattern of the OE lights. You can buy slightly brighter standard bulbs, which have a different gas mix but don't last very long. You'd never be able to change a failed one by the side of the road at night, but that's OK...
So my headlights, save for their construction, fulfil all the criteria to pass the MoT. They use much less power, last a damn sight longer, and most importantly, are bright enough to drive with. They certainly don't dazzle oncoming traffic.
Bloody stupid - I wonder what little jobsworth decided on this?
LED headlights are a menace, and they are sMy Porsche Macan was originally fitted with halogen bulbs, and the first time I drove it at night, I had to stop & check the bloody things were actually illuminated! Just a pathetic yellow glow; positively dangerous and shame on Porsche for supplying the car with them. I did my research, and sourced LEDs from the USA which, apart from being much brighter, exactly emulate the beam pattern of the OE lights. You can buy slightly brighter standard bulbs, which have a different gas mix but don't last very long. You'd never be able to change a failed one by the side of the road at night, but that's OK...
So my headlights, save for their construction, fulfil all the criteria to pass the MoT. They use much less power, last a damn sight longer, and most importantly, are bright enough to drive with. They certainly don't dazzle oncoming traffic.
Bloody stupid - I wonder what little jobsworth decided on this?
t. I've got a 2019 5-series and it has LED bulbs and they're very average. The 2015 5 Series I had before, which had Xenon bulbs was 100x better. The cutoff was perfect. LED bulbs seem to scatter the light more so then Xenon which i dont understand.
Even the Xenons in my 2007 Vectra were fantastic.
For me Xenon > LED > Halogen. I dunno why we came away from xenon.
I have LEDs fitted in my 928, the OEM halogens being pants.
They have a H4 spread and are not blinding and make night driving a lot easier and safer.
MoT is due though and with LEDs now being potential fail item I think I will have to swtich back to the candles for the test.
Big thread on the 928 owners forum about it - general view is the Woodypeck kit is proper H4 so "might" be k.
They have a H4 spread and are not blinding and make night driving a lot easier and safer.
MoT is due though and with LEDs now being potential fail item I think I will have to swtich back to the candles for the test.
Big thread on the 928 owners forum about it - general view is the Woodypeck kit is proper H4 so "might" be k.
I've had retrofit LED's in my cars for nearly a decade now, used to have them as high beam only until the technology improved enough to also be used for low been as well and have passed multiple MOTs.
Make sure you get a normal tint and quality LED light sources instead of super cheap amazon ebay ones, I've got some Cree F2's and the LED is the same width and placement as a halogen filament bulb so work the same cuff-off wise but have over 8x the light output, when I bought them a couple of years back they were over a hundred pounds but now they cost half that.
One thing to make sure if that the headlight lenses are clear and not fluted as they refract the LED's individually like mini rainbow.
Imo a properly adjusted LED is miles better than a HID for the cut-off and also don't take time to warm up so can be used to flash oncoming cars.
Make sure you get a normal tint and quality LED light sources instead of super cheap amazon ebay ones, I've got some Cree F2's and the LED is the same width and placement as a halogen filament bulb so work the same cuff-off wise but have over 8x the light output, when I bought them a couple of years back they were over a hundred pounds but now they cost half that.
One thing to make sure if that the headlight lenses are clear and not fluted as they refract the LED's individually like mini rainbow.
Imo a properly adjusted LED is miles better than a HID for the cut-off and also don't take time to warm up so can be used to flash oncoming cars.
My car passed its last MoT, in November, with LEDs in place of the awful halogen efforts. I bought the dipped beam bulbs from Headlight Revolution in the USA. The positioning of the LEDs exactly emulates the elements in the halogens. You can't see the type of bulb because the car's got projection lenses. These bulbs were very dear, and I got stung with import duty. The main beam/driving light bulbs came from EM Tuning. The fella there's very helpful.
Guess at MoT time I'll swap the mains back to the halogens. I do wonder if the likes of Philips, Osram etc. will be applying to have their LED headlight bulbs approved for fitment in the UK. It'd be a pretty good market!
Guess at MoT time I'll swap the mains back to the halogens. I do wonder if the likes of Philips, Osram etc. will be applying to have their LED headlight bulbs approved for fitment in the UK. It'd be a pretty good market!
It's worth just leaving them in and seeing if it passes the test rather than faffing around with swapping them out beforehand and then reinstalling after, if the beam pattern is decent then they will likely pass, if not then you can fit the halogens and have it retested.
https://www.gov.uk/getting-an-mot/retests
https://www.gov.uk/getting-an-mot/retests
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