Family killed by drink-driver

[Simbu]

I'm curious to about the likely outcome of sentencing on this horrendous case. Probably not long enough, is my initial reaction. Defendant has admitted their guilt, and the law limits sentencing to 14 years on the highest culpability (which this ought to meet?). A couple of thoughts / questions:

- Could sentencing be served consecutively (does this happen in English criminal cases) to represent the severity of the crime.
- Has there been previous attempts to prosecute under manslaughter laws for severe cases of death by dangerous driving, where there is no upper limit on imprisonment for high culpability?

Tragic case all round, and infuriating that drink-driving still happens despite decades of taboo and publicity.

So my guess is out in under 10 years. Which I suspect will hardly seem fair to relatives of the family that got killed.

Edited by Simbu on Monday 15th February 22:54

[lost in espace]

I felt sick reading that, poor family and friends.

[mick987]

Simbu said:

I'm curious to about the likely outcome of sentencing on this horrendous case. Probably not long enough, is my initial reaction. Defendant has admitted their guilt, and the law limits sentencing to 14 years on the highest culpability (which this ought to meet?). A couple of thoughts / questions:

- Could sentencing be served consecutively (does this happen in English criminal cases) to represent the severity of the crime.
- Has there been previous attempts to prosecute under manslaughter laws for severe cases of death by dangerous driving, where there is no upper limit on imprisonment for high culpability?

Tragic case all round, and infuriating that drink-driving still happens despite decades of taboo and publicity.

So my guess is out in under 10 years. Which I suspect will hardly seem fair to relatives of the family that got killed.

Edited by Simbu on Monday 15th February 22:54

No way he will do ten years, my guess out in five.

[Algarve]

He's not getting consecutive sentences for killing 3 people as part of the one incident.

He will also get a discount for pleading guilty, and be able to get out on parole after half.

your "out in 10 years" estimate is probably optimistic, I'd expect he ends up serving years less than this.

[aka_kerrly]

mick987 said:

No way he will do ten years, my guess out in five.

That would be my guess to :-(

140mg per 100ml , the guy was absolutely wasted and at 2pm in the afternoon, not 2AM after a heavy night on the beers. The only times I've seen figures that high is from someone who is a chronic alcoholic or someone who has been on a BIG session for hours!

The trouble is he won't have planned to go out and murder 3 people so won't be judged as a murderer the same way he would if he'd walked up to them and stabbed them to death hence the sentence will be somewhat lower than general expectations.

[mick987]

aka_kerrly said:

That would be my guess to :-(

140mg per 100ml , the guy was absolutely wasted and at 2pm in the afternoon, not 2AM after a heavy night on the beers. The only times I've seen figures that high is from someone who is a chronic alcoholic or someone who has been on a BIG session for hours!

The trouble is he won't have planned to go out and murder 3 people so won't be judged as a murderer the same way he would if he'd walked up to them and stabbed them to death hence the sentence will be somewhat lower than general expectations.

That footballer who was two times over the limit and doing a 100mph killing two young boys served less than four years cant see this guy getting a lot more.

[bigandclever]

I’d say full 14 years sentence, less 1/3 for early guilty plea, less the couple of months served on remand (I’m assuming he hasn’t been held since the crash); eligible for parole at just under 5 years, out before 6.

Edited by bigandclever on Tuesday 16th February 00:10

[Driver101]

mick987 said:

aka_kerrly said:

That would be my guess to :-(

140mg per 100ml , the guy was absolutely wasted and at 2pm in the afternoon, not 2AM after a heavy night on the beers. The only times I've seen figures that high is from someone who is a chronic alcoholic or someone who has been on a BIG session for hours!

The trouble is he won't have planned to go out and murder 3 people so won't be judged as a murderer the same way he would if he'd walked up to them and stabbed them to death hence the sentence will be somewhat lower than general expectations.

That footballer who was two times over the limit and doing a 100mph killing two young boys served less than four years cant see this guy getting a lot more.

That was 13 years ago. This case was more recent. He got 9 years.

https://metro.co.uk/2020/11/16/drink-driving-ex-so...

[mick987]

Driver101 said:

That was 13 years ago. This case was more recent. He got 9 years.

https://metro.co.uk/2020/11/16/drink-driving-ex-so...

Did he plead guilty ?. Still would be surprised if he is not out in five years.

[bigothunter]

Simbu said:

Tragic case all round, and infuriating that drink-driving still happens despite decades of taboo and publicity.

Any worse than speeding which is also taboo?

"Drifting over the speed limit is as much of a crime as drifting a knife between someone's ribs"

[Simbu]

bigothunter said:

Any worse than speeding which is also taboo?

I prefer to think of it in terms of consequences for the actions you choose to take. If you speed in a manner a judge would consider abhorrent and you kill people, then it's no better. Of course speed has had a lot of negative publicity over the years too.

[mybrainhurts]

bigothunter said:

Any worse than speeding which is also taboo?

"Drifting over the speed limit is as much of a crime as drifting a knife between someone's ribs"

I remember that, but was it Barmy Bruntrom or a lesser mortal?

[agtlaw]

bigandclever said:

I’d say full 14 years sentence, less 1/3 for early guilty plea, less the couple of months served on remand (I’m assuming he hasn’t been held since the crash); eligible for parole at just under 5 years, out before 6

Tragic case. Maximum sentence is due to be increased to life imprisonment, but in the meantime, the maximum is 14 years.

Sentence will likely be 9 years 4 months.

Automatic release at the halfway point. It’s not a parole case.

Sentencing Council: “It should be stressed that offenders are not released early for good behaviour. All offenders who receive a standard determinate sentence, for any offence including driving offences, will be released from custody automatically after they have served half of their sentence. This is a statutory requirement set out in the Criminal Justice Act 2003. Offenders are released on licence for the rest of their sentence and may be recalled to custody if they breach the terms of that licence or commit a further offence. It should also be noted that any offender convicted of a driving offence resulting in death is excluded from early release under the home detention curfew (HDC) scheme, unless there are exceptional circumstances justifying the release.”

[IroningMan]

Has anyone ever received the full 14 years for causing death by dangerous driving?

Notwithstanding the actual time served.

[Dan_1981]

This guy's sentence will likely be 14 years.

However it will be discounted due to the guilty plea etc. But the actual sentence given will be 14 years.

Which always seems confusing.

[agtlaw]

@ironingman Lorry driver not too long ago, convicted after trial, multiple victims.

Someone pleading guilty will not get the maximum, of course.

[agtlaw]

Dan_1981 said:

This guy's sentence will likely be 14 years.

However it will be discounted due to the guilty plea etc. But the actual sentence given will be 14 years.

Which always seems confusing.

It won’t. That’s incorrect.

[Dan_1981]

agtlaw said:

Dan_1981 said:

This guy's sentence will likely be 14 years.

However it will be discounted due to the guilty plea etc. But the actual sentence given will be 14 years.

Which always seems confusing.

It won’t. That’s incorrect.

Apologies. I stand corrected.

[agtlaw]

You’re thinking of the Starting Point.

[anonymous-user]

agtlaw said:

Tragic case. Maximum sentence is due to be increased to life imprisonment, but in the meantime, the maximum is 14 years.

Sentence will likely be 9 years 4 months.

Automatic release at the halfway point. It’s not a parole case.

Sentencing Council: “It should be stressed that offenders are not released early for good behaviour. All offenders who receive a standard determinate sentence, for any offence including driving offences, will be released from custody automatically after they have served half of their sentence. This is a statutory requirement set out in the Criminal Justice Act 2003. Offenders are released on licence for the rest of their sentence and may be recalled to custody if they breach the terms of that licence or commit a further offence. It should also be noted that any offender convicted of a driving offence resulting in death is excluded from early release under the home detention curfew (HDC) scheme, unless there are exceptional circumstances justifying the release.”

Hi agt, for my own clarity of mind, that says driving offenders will NOT be considered for early release? So likely the full 9-and-a-bit years for him?