Police officers arresting while off duty ref female assaults
Discussion
The whole "undercover male officers in clubs to help women" thing got me thinking. Since, as far as I am aware, police officers still have the power to arrest people when off duty, effectively any off duty officer is sort of undercover. So do female off-duty officers ever arrest men who assault them (I'm thinking groping, verbal abuse) when they're not at work? While we're at it, can/do male off-duty officers ever do the same thing if say they see it happening say while out?
Obviously in many circumstances I would assume it would impractical or even dangerous for them to take action on the spot, but in the hypothetical scenario where say it happened in a pub to the officer, or someone the officer saw, and there was support for the officer e.g. bar/security staff, is there a legal reason why they wouldn't/shouldn't take action?
I'm just loving the idea that a creep could get the shock of his life on a night out and get nicked on the spot when he harasses/assaults a woman on a night out.
Obviously in many circumstances I would assume it would impractical or even dangerous for them to take action on the spot, but in the hypothetical scenario where say it happened in a pub to the officer, or someone the officer saw, and there was support for the officer e.g. bar/security staff, is there a legal reason why they wouldn't/shouldn't take action?
I'm just loving the idea that a creep could get the shock of his life on a night out and get nicked on the spot when he harasses/assaults a woman on a night out.
Mario149 said:
So do female off-duty officers ever arrest men who assault them (I'm thinking groping, verbal abuse) when they're not at work?
A female officer will have some training, but will they still be odds on to tackle a possibly physically stronger male on their own? As the male may well be experienced in street fights.hyphen said:
Mario149 said:
So do female off-duty officers ever arrest men who assault them (I'm thinking groping, verbal abuse) when they're not at work?
A female officer will have some training, but will they still be odds on to tackle a possibly physically stronger male on their own? As the male may well be experienced in street fights.Mario149 said:
The whole "undercover male officers in clubs to help women" thing got me thinking.
But there's been at least two recent fly on the wall police documentaries that have had the main underlying message 'We've not got enough officers on duty to deal with what's happening on our patch at this hour of day/night.'So the Home Office are going to give the police a ring fenced pot of money to fund undercover officers in clubs trying to identify potential perps?
carinaman said:
Mario149 said:
The whole "undercover male officers in clubs to help women" thing got me thinking.
But there's been at least two recent fly on the wall police documentaries that have had the main underlying message 'We've not got enough officers on duty to deal with what's happening on our patch at this hour of day/night.'So the Home Office are going to give the police a ring fenced pot of money to fund undercover officers in clubs trying to identify potential perps?
I'm not even sure what the plainclothes officers in clubs/pubs are meant to achieve. You might as well have a couple of uniformed bobbies just walk around all the local pubs on a Friday night for five minutes to do a quick check on things, like they used to when i was a teenager.
At least then you know there are a couple of people in the area if there is anything to report.
At least then you know there are a couple of people in the area if there is anything to report.
La Liga said:
A female officer could make an arrest off-duty if they are a victim of whatever, but as you say, they need to assess the risk etc of doing so.
It was in the news at the weekend:Mario149 said:
The whole "undercover male officers in clubs to help women" thing got me thinking.
What's this thing? https://metro.co.uk/2021/03/16/undercover-police-t...
Seemed to be linked to the Vigil/Protest at Clapham Common.
carinaman said:
La Liga said:
A female officer could make an arrest off-duty if they are a victim of whatever, but as you say, they need to assess the risk etc of doing so.
It was in the news at the weekend:Mario149 said:
The whole "undercover male officers in clubs to help women" thing got me thinking.
What's this thing? https://metro.co.uk/2021/03/16/undercover-police-t...
Seemed to be linked to the Vigil/Protest at Clapham Common.
What a waste of time that would be.
Unless clubs / bars have changed dramatically from when I was both a police officer and user of such establishments.
This all has a hint of this about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcU7FaEEzNU&li...
Thanks for the link La Liga. I love the Chris Morris stuff, though Three Lions may be slightly less amusing after the Arianna Grande Manchester Arena bombing and the chances that may've prevented those murders.
So there's not enough resources to cope with existing leads and intelligence but police officers are actively going to go out there looking for even more 'work' that will then need dealing with?
So there's not enough resources to cope with existing leads and intelligence but police officers are actively going to go out there looking for even more 'work' that will then need dealing with?
Isn't it non gender specific undercover Police Officers in pubs and clubs?
A majority of my female colleagues are more than capable of dealing with Mr Average. A minority of my male colleagues would be less than capable of dealing with Ms Not-Average.
I don't see how this plan does anything. Doormen and staff can and already do this, and do it well. If some's concerned, they go to them for help, and they in turn call the Police if needed.
We already going into venues to do Licencing Checks.
Police on the streets is a double edged sword. A & B might not have a fight, but C will report something that they otherwise wouldn't, and whilst you're dealing with that.......
They won't be 'extra Officers'. They'll be on overtime or taken from duty strength.
Undercover Police in the streets is probably more effective (from my experience), but does nothing for Public Confidence.
Project Vigilant - we had an Operation back in 2017 that I'd imagine was along the same lines. It just kind of fizzled out, but those of us that know if it still make reference to it.
Unfortunately the Media interest in someone's occupation will have knock effects.
We used to scoop vulnerable people up and take them somewhere safe (home, hospital, railway station), now......I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable dealing with a lone female, and likewise she's unlikely to be unconcerned about going with Police.
(Other genders are available).
I really wish there was an easy solution, but then there rarely is.
A majority of my female colleagues are more than capable of dealing with Mr Average. A minority of my male colleagues would be less than capable of dealing with Ms Not-Average.
I don't see how this plan does anything. Doormen and staff can and already do this, and do it well. If some's concerned, they go to them for help, and they in turn call the Police if needed.
We already going into venues to do Licencing Checks.
Police on the streets is a double edged sword. A & B might not have a fight, but C will report something that they otherwise wouldn't, and whilst you're dealing with that.......
They won't be 'extra Officers'. They'll be on overtime or taken from duty strength.
Undercover Police in the streets is probably more effective (from my experience), but does nothing for Public Confidence.
Project Vigilant - we had an Operation back in 2017 that I'd imagine was along the same lines. It just kind of fizzled out, but those of us that know if it still make reference to it.
Unfortunately the Media interest in someone's occupation will have knock effects.
We used to scoop vulnerable people up and take them somewhere safe (home, hospital, railway station), now......I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable dealing with a lone female, and likewise she's unlikely to be unconcerned about going with Police.
(Other genders are available).
I really wish there was an easy solution, but then there rarely is.
Edited by Nibbles_bits on Wednesday 17th March 17:04
This tweet appears relevant https://twitter.com/btplondonbridge/status/1370900... A drunk on an evening train. One of the passengers is a female off duty PCSO. The following day she sees the same guy at London Bridge presumably whilst on duty and he is arrested.
Mate of mine is an detective sergeant, when he was a pc we were out in town circa 10 years ago now and there was an altercation he went over to try and help, got punched, then he got arrested alongside the offender and taken down the station, yes he was drunk but not hammered and told the officer at scene he was in West Mids police, (we were in staffs area) and was told he didn't give monkeys who he was.
I doubt unless it was very serious he would get involved again.
I doubt unless it was very serious he would get involved again.
In my early days, police pay was awful, and any bit of overtime I could get I went for. On my commute, I had a decent walk and a tube ride.
On my way home, if I had an arrest for anything, I could claim overtime. If memory serves there was a minimum of four hours paid. This was manna.
I’ve had assailants, dippers, and a couple of robberies on my way back to my car, and as I’d booked off work, I got four hours pay. Further, these arrests would mainly be in another force area, the MPD, and the guys there would normally take over completely. I might do an hour’s work – the arrest, transport, queuing to be processed, arrest statement – and then go home.
There was a sort of satisfaction with it as often the offender would think he was impregnable and could do what he wanted without repercussion. Great fun, and I’d get money for doing it. I once got a robber, running from a shop dropping money as he ran. The bloke, no previous, started crying when I nicked him. I returned to the shop with him, and the shopkeeper wanted to kill him first of all, but by the time the Met arrived for transport, they were almost friends after the offender apologised so much.
On my way home, if I had an arrest for anything, I could claim overtime. If memory serves there was a minimum of four hours paid. This was manna.
I’ve had assailants, dippers, and a couple of robberies on my way back to my car, and as I’d booked off work, I got four hours pay. Further, these arrests would mainly be in another force area, the MPD, and the guys there would normally take over completely. I might do an hour’s work – the arrest, transport, queuing to be processed, arrest statement – and then go home.
There was a sort of satisfaction with it as often the offender would think he was impregnable and could do what he wanted without repercussion. Great fun, and I’d get money for doing it. I once got a robber, running from a shop dropping money as he ran. The bloke, no previous, started crying when I nicked him. I returned to the shop with him, and the shopkeeper wanted to kill him first of all, but by the time the Met arrived for transport, they were almost friends after the offender apologised so much.
Derek Smith said:
In my early days, police pay was awful, and any bit of overtime I could get I went for. On my commute, I had a decent walk and a tube ride.
On my way home, if I had an arrest for anything, I could claim overtime. If memory serves there was a minimum of four hours paid. This was manna.
Pay is still crap at the start ha. On my way home, if I had an arrest for anything, I could claim overtime. If memory serves there was a minimum of four hours paid. This was manna.
I’m annoyed that we weren’t told about the four hours time and a half claim we could get...I got an arrest for upskirting im a rest day during training. Would have been nice to have got the extra money as I was saving for a house ha.
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff