RTA after doctor advised not to drive

[Murghee]

Quick story...i went to the docs a couple of months ago as my wife complained i was snoring. Doc went through the Epworth questionnaire and my score was 1 just a point for loud snoring but everything else was zero.

Doc said i may have sleep apnea and advised not to drive. Had a lengthy discussion with the doc as i need to drive for work and the doc said this is the advice they give but if i drive its upto me.

So thinking of my low score and the fact im never sleepy or tired i drove the next day. Just my luck i ended up in a RTA which wasnt my fault as third party hit me from behind. Went through insurers and third party claimed liability so the car side of things was sorted.

However i had some injuries to my shoulder and knee so an injury claim had started. I also rang my GP who took a look at me. Also the medical company dealing with the claim arranged for a doc to look at me. In the meantime i had been to the sleep clinic and diagnosed with Mild OSA without excessive sleepiness so no equipment or outpatient review needed.

Anyway fast forward to today and the medical company want 10 year medical records as they said they wanted to review my injuries with another practitioner eventhough my injuries have cleared up.

Docs said they cant provide the medical records but i can. So i logged in online and saw my records and on it shows my call with the docs the day before my accident which says 'advise of potential sleep apnea and advised not to drive'

So im just wondering that if the doc advised not to drive was my insurance invalid? I ask because when google searching this the answer is that it is invalid but thats when a driver has an actual diagnosed condition but mine was a discussion over the phone and not an actual diagnosis. So bit confused where I stand in regards to the medical claim.

Also has anybody else had to give 10 years worth of medical records?

Apologies for the long essay ive tried googling and stuff. Thanks for any replies.

[chopper602]

But you're not claiming on your insurance . . .

[Smiljan]

You are supposed to inform your insurance company of any medical issues that'll affect your ability to drive safely.

Direct Line have done a bit of an article about it, read through to the end.

Direct Line said:

https://www.directline.com/car-cover/magazine/disc...

In short you should at least discuss it with your insurer and the DVLA. If you got into an accident that could be attributed to you I'd be amazed if an undisclosed medical condition wasn't used to try and wriggle out of a payout.

Just to add, Sleep Apnoea is one of the DVLA's notifiable conditions

https://www.gov.uk/health-conditions-and-driving

Edited by Smiljan on Tuesday 23 March 12:49

[julian64]

I suspect you have a problem. The insurance company have a reason not to pay you anything. You were driving against medical advice while awaiting the outcome of sleep clinic investigations, and I assume you hadn't informed the DVLA.

You will argue that the result of the investigations show that your judgement was not impaired while driving.

Epworth score goes from 0-24. 0-5 is normal. But the problem with your story here is that if a doctor had referred you with a score of 1 the clinic would have refused to see you. So I suspect the doctor had more reason than an epworth score of 1 to refer you and tell you not to drive.

[NMNeil]

Murghee said:

Docs said they cant provide the medical records but i can. So i logged in online and saw my records and on it shows my call with the docs the day before my accident which says 'advise of potential sleep apnea and advised not to drive'

So im just wondering that if the doc advised not to drive was my insurance invalid?

What does it say in your insurance policy about reporting medical conditions?

[Monkeylegend]

If your injuries have healed can you not just withdraw the claim, or has it gone to far for that now?

[s55shh]

What happens if you decline to release your records?

[Murghee]

julian64 said:

I suspect you have a problem. The insurance company have a reason not to pay you anything. You were driving against medical advice while awaiting the outcome of sleep clinic investigations, and I assume you hadn't informed the DVLA.

You will argue that the result of the investigations show that your judgement was not impaired while driving.

Epworth score goes from 0-24. 0-5 is normal. But the problem with your story here is that if a doctor had referred you with a score of 1 the clinic would have refused to see you. So I suspect the doctor had more reason than an epworth score of 1 to refer you and tell you not to drive.

Quick replies wasnt excpecting anything so thanks all

The first part i had just spoken to the doctor on the phone and they had not referred me at that point but referred me two weeks later after a face to face call which was after the accident. I stopped driving from the time i was referred to the time i got my results. However i did drive before the referral and that was when the accident happened so theres a lot of confusion in my head about my insurance validity.

If i am in the wrong then i will hold my hand up and just admit i shouldnt have been driving but im not sure if i am in the wrong or not as i hadnt been diagnosed and the results came back fine.

On the face to face call we discussed the driving situation and on my notes it does say it was discussed. I do remember telling my doc about the rta and that i had drove but thier opinion was the same.

So yes very confused and still not sure why 10 years worth of records is needed. Will be ringing them up today but thought id see if anyone else had been in the same situation.

[Murghee]

NMNeil said:

Murghee said:

Docs said they cant provide the medical records but i can. So i logged in online and saw my records and on it shows my call with the docs the day before my accident which says 'advise of potential sleep apnea and advised not to drive'

So im just wondering that if the doc advised not to drive was my insurance invalid?

What does it say in your insurance policy about reporting medical conditions?

They should be reported to dvla but for mild sleep apnea on the dvla site it doesnt need to be reported unless there is excessive sleepiness which i do not have.

I did speak to dvla after my first call with the docs and the assistant said that as i hadnt been diagnosed yet or going through treatment i could drive but i dont have hard evidence of that which is a shame

[Murghee]

Monkeylegend said:

If your injuries have healed can you not just withdraw the claim, or has it gone to far for that now?

I assume i could id rather cancel the injury claim then go through the hassle of proving my innocence or explaining why i drove and the reasoning behind everything etc etc

Shall give them a call...think i have wasted people time on this forum so apologies

[NMNeil]

Murghee said:

So yes very confused and still not sure why 10 years worth of records is needed. Will be ringing them up today but thought id see if anyone else had been in the same situation.

Because the insurance company will do everything possible to deny a claim, and the more medical information they have, the more chance they have of finding a reason for the denial.

[Murghee]

Smiljan said:

You are supposed to inform your insurance company of any medical issues that'll affect your ability to drive safely.

Direct Line have done a bit of an article about it, read through to the end.

Direct Line said:

https://www.directline.com/car-cover/magazine/disc...

In short you should at least discuss it with your insurer and the DVLA. If you got into an accident that could be attributed to you I'd be amazed if an undisclosed medical condition wasn't used to try and wriggle out of a payout.

Just to add, Sleep Apnoea is one of the DVLA's notifiable conditions

https://www.gov.uk/health-conditions-and-driving

Edited by Smiljan on Tuesday 23 March 12:49

True and i did contact dvla but they said as its not diagnosed or in the middle of treatment i can drive but all that was over the phone so no proof.

Also as i have mild osa i dont need to notify dvla that was the many things i checked during the days i was stuck at home not bored not driving lol

[julian64]

Murghee said:

They should be reported to dvla but for mild sleep apnea on the dvla site it doesnt need to be reported unless there is excessive sleepiness which i do not have.

I did speak to dvla after my first call with the docs and the assistant said that as i hadn't been diagnosed yet or going through treatment i could drive but i dont have hard evidence of that which is a shame

The advice from the assistant is 100% wrong unfortunately. If someone has what a doctor suspects to be a fit, for instance. That patient is told not to drive and referred to a neurologist for an EEG. That can take about three months in my area. Its not legal for that person to just keep driving with the possibility of a further fit and say I hadn't been diagnosed yet

I would keep coming back to the point about the score of '1' though. Its a normal score and a normal doctor looking at a epworth score of 1 would not refer you unless there was something else discussed?

[TwigtheWonderkid]

julian64 said:

I suspect you have a problem. The insurance company have a reason not to pay you anything. You were driving against medical advice while awaiting the outcome of sleep clinic investigations, and I assume you hadn't informed the DVLA.

So what? He could have been driving whilst drunk, in a car with no insurance, tax and MOT, with a dead body in the boot and acting as a getaway driver in a bank heist. But he has been injured by a negligent third party, and therefore he has a valid claim against the third party's insurer for injury.

He has no contract with the insurance company, so he is under no obligation to them to not drive when he's advised not to drive. He might have had a problem with his own insurance, as he had a contract with them that obligates both parties to do certain things, but he has no such agreement with the tp insurer.

[julian64]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

julian64 said:

I suspect you have a problem. The insurance company have a reason not to pay you anything. You were driving against medical advice while awaiting the outcome of sleep clinic investigations, and I assume you hadn't informed the DVLA.

So what? He could have been driving whilst drunk, in a car with no insurance, tax and MOT, with a dead body in the boot and acting as a getaway driver in a bank heist. But he has been injured by a negligent third party, and therefore he has a valid claim against the third party's insurer for injury.

He has no contract with the insurance company, so he is under no obligation to them to not drive when he's advised not to drive. He might have had a problem with his own insurance, as he had a contract with them that obligates both parties to do certain things, but he has no such agreement with the tp insurer.

Cool, why doesn't he just tell them to do one when they ask for his medical notes for a year. After all none of their business, and not relevant.

Alternatively, he may have a problem as first mentioned

[chml]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

So what? He could have been driving whilst drunk, in a car with no insurance, tax and MOT, with a dead body in the boot and acting as a getaway driver in a bank heist. But he has been injured by a negligent third party, and therefore he has a valid claim against the third party's insurer for injury.

He has no contract with the insurance company, so he is under no obligation to them to not drive when he's advised not to drive. He might have had a problem with his own insurance, as he had a contract with them that obligates both parties to do certain things, but he has no such agreement with the tp insurer.

This, in a nutshell.

[Murghee]

julian64 said:

Murghee said:

They should be reported to dvla but for mild sleep apnea on the dvla site it doesnt need to be reported unless there is excessive sleepiness which i do not have.

I did speak to dvla after my first call with the docs and the assistant said that as i hadn't been diagnosed yet or going through treatment i could drive but i dont have hard evidence of that which is a shame

The advice from the assistant is 100% wrong unfortunately. If someone has what a doctor suspects to be a fit, for instance. That patient is told not to drive and referred to a neurologist for an EEG. That can take about three months in my area. Its not legal for that person to just keep driving with the possibility of a further fit and say I hadn't been diagnosed yet

I would keep coming back to the point about the score of '1' though. Its a normal score and a normal doctor looking at a epworth score of 1 would not refer you unless there was something else discussed?

Nope nothing just checked medical records. Says patient states snores when sleeping then there is abit about the epworth questions and my responses with a score of 1 and then a line that says advise risk of sleep apnea, advise should not drive, will conduct f2f, patient aware.

Thats all so because i wasnt referred or diagnosed at the point of the doctor advising not to drive im still unsure if my insurance was invalid.

[Fastpedeller]

chml said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

So what? He could have been driving whilst drunk, in a car with no insurance, tax and MOT, with a dead body in the boot and acting as a getaway driver in a bank heist. But he has been injured by a negligent third party, and therefore he has a valid claim against the third party's insurer for injury.

He has no contract with the insurance company, so he is under no obligation to them to not drive when he's advised not to drive. He might have had a problem with his own insurance, as he had a contract with them that obligates both parties to do certain things, but he has no such agreement with the tp insurer.

This, in a nutshell.

Indeed. Ask if they have checked the medical records and eyesight of the other party!

[Murghee]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

julian64 said:

I suspect you have a problem. The insurance company have a reason not to pay you anything. You were driving against medical advice while awaiting the outcome of sleep clinic investigations, and I assume you hadn't informed the DVLA.

So what? He could have been driving whilst drunk, in a car with no insurance, tax and MOT, with a dead body in the boot and acting as a getaway driver in a bank heist. But he has been injured by a negligent third party, and therefore he has a valid claim against the third party's insurer for injury.

He has no contract with the insurance company, so he is under no obligation to them to not drive when he's advised not to drive. He might have had a problem with his own insurance, as he had a contract with them that obligates both parties to do certain things, but he has no such agreement with the tp insurer.

Apologies i should have mentioned that the claim is with my insurer but then i changed to claim for the third party for the car element. The injury side is still with my insurer (Tesco who have passed this to ageaslaw and premier medical )

So yes when they see the bit about doctor advising not to drive they will kick up a fuss and i agree i shouldnt have driven but i didnt have hindsight or common sense by the looks of things.

I drove due to my conversation with the doc about my low score and never feeling sleepy or fatigued and only rang them as my wife said just see what docs say and also dvla said it was fine but alas no proof wish i recorded the call now.

So thinking i either cancel the claim or deny my medical notes. I mean i have seen one of thier doctors already but they want me to see another one once they have 10 years of medical notes. I have no conditions and the sleep apnea is nothing to notify dvla about. Not fussed about injury money or anything so i shall see if what happens if i decline the medical report request eventhough i had consented at the time.

Just couldnt find anything about being told not to drive without being diagnosed or even seen physically as it was just a phone call so thought maybe someone had been in the same boat before.

[paintman]

The only place you're going to get the answer is your insurers.