Problems with used car purchased from dealer
Discussion
I'm not sure if this is the right section for this post so apologies in advance.
In the last couple of weeks we've had a problem with our car that appears to be quite random. The battery randomly dies and won't start without a jump, it seems entirely random so took it in for a diagnostic at the local Honda dealership when it was in for a service. They've reported back saying that the alternator needs changing at a cost of 710 and the battery at 150 odd.
The car was purchased in Sept 2020, it's a 66 plate, full Honda service history and has only covered 20k miles so quite a shock to find out that it's throwing up some big bills already.
Is there any allowance in the consumer rights act to get the supplying dealer to fix the fault or is it a case of suck it up buttercup?
In the last couple of weeks we've had a problem with our car that appears to be quite random. The battery randomly dies and won't start without a jump, it seems entirely random so took it in for a diagnostic at the local Honda dealership when it was in for a service. They've reported back saying that the alternator needs changing at a cost of 710 and the battery at 150 odd.
The car was purchased in Sept 2020, it's a 66 plate, full Honda service history and has only covered 20k miles so quite a shock to find out that it's throwing up some big bills already.
Is there any allowance in the consumer rights act to get the supplying dealer to fix the fault or is it a case of suck it up buttercup?
Things get harder after 6 months - see link below which may be helpful...
Did you buy it from a Honda main dealer?
https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/105951/your...
Did you buy it from a Honda main dealer?
https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/105951/your...
I would either do some troubleshooting yourself or find a mechanic who is prepared to do similar.
A friend had a similar problem. Replaced the battery but then continued to have 'random' flat battery issues. Asked me for help, 30 minutes detective work with a multimeter and it turned out a dodgy micro switch on a rear door was leaving the internal light on when parked up. They only used the rear door some of the time when they went out with the kid. The switch replacement cost was peanuts.
But much easier for the dealer to charge you £850 and not fix the problem.....
A friend had a similar problem. Replaced the battery but then continued to have 'random' flat battery issues. Asked me for help, 30 minutes detective work with a multimeter and it turned out a dodgy micro switch on a rear door was leaving the internal light on when parked up. They only used the rear door some of the time when they went out with the kid. The switch replacement cost was peanuts.
But much easier for the dealer to charge you £850 and not fix the problem.....
Thank you for all the replies, genuinely much appreciated in such a sticky situation.
Yes 11 days over the 6 month period. Typical!
I've only just reported the issue with the supplying dealer, I had hoped it would just need the battery replaced and that was a cost that I'd have been happy to cover so didn't think to even mention it (my idiotic mistake entirely).
In regards to the dealer, the car was actually purchased from a Lexus main dealer franchise as I'd purchased from them before and had a wholly positive experience. Unfortunately, what I hadn't realised is that as these cars cannot be "approved used" due to not being a Lexus product, this meant that it was only supplied by a 6 month third party warranty which has lapsed as of 11 days ago.
I've had a response from the supplying dealer which is essentially, "claim on your warranty if it's still active". Can I go back to them with respect to CRA's and say that the vehicle is not fit for purpose or of satisfactory quality due to the alternator dying at 20k miles and 4 years old and thusly the car doesn't start or drive?
Now that I'm over the 6 month period, I believe it's my responsibility to prove that the fault existed at time of purchase. Is this correct and if so I assume I am stuffed?
Looking at another advisory website, I went through a questionnaire and was advised to get in touch with the finance provider (car is funded via Lexus Financial Services). Would this yield a different response to that of the franchised dealer?
Yes 11 days over the 6 month period. Typical!
I've only just reported the issue with the supplying dealer, I had hoped it would just need the battery replaced and that was a cost that I'd have been happy to cover so didn't think to even mention it (my idiotic mistake entirely).
In regards to the dealer, the car was actually purchased from a Lexus main dealer franchise as I'd purchased from them before and had a wholly positive experience. Unfortunately, what I hadn't realised is that as these cars cannot be "approved used" due to not being a Lexus product, this meant that it was only supplied by a 6 month third party warranty which has lapsed as of 11 days ago.
I've had a response from the supplying dealer which is essentially, "claim on your warranty if it's still active". Can I go back to them with respect to CRA's and say that the vehicle is not fit for purpose or of satisfactory quality due to the alternator dying at 20k miles and 4 years old and thusly the car doesn't start or drive?
Now that I'm over the 6 month period, I believe it's my responsibility to prove that the fault existed at time of purchase. Is this correct and if so I assume I am stuffed?
Looking at another advisory website, I went through a questionnaire and was advised to get in touch with the finance provider (car is funded via Lexus Financial Services). Would this yield a different response to that of the franchised dealer?
I think that you are going to have to rely on goodwill from either Honda themselves or the supplying Lexus dealership if you want it repaired at less than full cost.
At the end of the day you bought the car from outside of the franchised network, the supplied warranty has lapsed as the six months has passed and the fault wasn't reported before the end of this warranty period.
No one is under any obligation to repair your car 'free of charge' and you are on the receiving end of an unfortunate set of circumstances. If it was me though I'd be looking at getting a proper auto electrician to take a look and repair the car assuming Honda won't play ball.
At the end of the day you bought the car from outside of the franchised network, the supplied warranty has lapsed as the six months has passed and the fault wasn't reported before the end of this warranty period.
No one is under any obligation to repair your car 'free of charge' and you are on the receiving end of an unfortunate set of circumstances. If it was me though I'd be looking at getting a proper auto electrician to take a look and repair the car assuming Honda won't play ball.
Yadizzle1 said:
I've had a response from the supplying dealer which is essentially, "claim on your warranty if it's still active". Can I go back to them with respect to CRA's and say that the vehicle is not fit for purpose or of satisfactory quality due to the alternator dying at 20k miles and 4 years old and thusly the car doesn't start or drive?
It's a question of whether it's so unreasonable for this component to fail after 4 years/ 20k that there must have been a latent fault with it when sold to you. That's not really possible to 'prove' so it will come down to what the judge (if it comes to that) considers is reasonable.I suggest a fair solution would be for you and the vendor to share the pain 50/50 - but i'm no expert on the reasonable lifespan of Honda alternators.
I'd pursue it with the vendor on that basis if it was me - there's then perhaps a further decision if they won't budge on whether you want to take the legal route.
Matt_E_Mulsion said:
If it was me though I'd be looking at getting a proper auto electrician to take a look and repair the car assuming Honda won't play ball.
Same. I'd definitely want a second opinion, even if the alternator eeds replacing, a pattern one will be something like 1/3 the price. Likely the battery can be got for half the price too - what model is the car?At one time, if the alternator really is faulty, Honda might have changed it under goodwill, although the Hondas we had, we had from new. But they stopped being helpful a few years ago.
Go have a look in your handbook 
On most cars it the alternator has failed it will flag a warning light on the dash when the engine is running. If you don't have the light on chances are the alternator is not the actual problem they are trying to charge you to 'fix'. You could ask the dealer why this is!
But I am a cynic who doesn't like spending money
On most cars it the alternator has failed it will flag a warning light on the dash when the engine is running. If you don't have the light on chances are the alternator is not the actual problem they are trying to charge you to 'fix'. You could ask the dealer why this is!
But I am a cynic who doesn't like spending money
Matt_E_Mulsion said:
If it was me though I'd be looking at getting a proper auto electrician to take a look and repair the car assuming Honda won't play ball.
+2 It could simply be a corroded connector somewhere, or something corroded inside the alternator, if it's intermittent.
So get an electrical expert to check it.
Plenty of cars got caught in floodwater last year.
This was a recent one I saw, although nothing to do with an alternator, it caused an intermittent fault.
Edited by Trevor555 on Thursday 25th March 15:26
Canon_Fodder said:
It's a question of whether it's so unreasonable for this component to fail after 4 years/ 20k that there must have been a latent fault with it when sold to you...
I suggest a fair solution would be for you and the vendor to share the pain 50/50 - but i'm no expert on the reasonable lifespan of Honda alternators.
I disagree.I suggest a fair solution would be for you and the vendor to share the pain 50/50 - but i'm no expert on the reasonable lifespan of Honda alternators.
The Vendor ie the Lexus dealer sold a second hand car four year old car (that they are not a franchised dealer for) over six months ago to the OP and supplied it with a six month warranty. At no point during this six month period has the OP made a claim or made anyone aware that there may be an issue.
The Lexus dealer has done nothing wrong. How can you suggest that they should be in any way liable for a fault that has reared its head at this stage of the game?
Be aware on PH you get a lot of “suck it up” and “ you bought a cheap £15k car 9 months ago what do you expect “ types !
Try putting your reg in here and purchase date .
https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/used-car/c...
Under CRA you are covered for breaches up to 6 years.
Try putting your reg in here and purchase date .
https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/used-car/c...
Under CRA you are covered for breaches up to 6 years.
It's looking like Honda Goodwill is probably my best bet. Full dealer service history which has been kept up by us as well as the low miles and age hopefully add up to some sort of contribution. I am genuinely surprised that the alternator is faulty, I get that things break but I really wouldn't have expected it to let go on something relatively new and lightly used.
Like Bob and Sheepshanks have suggested, I would've thought it would be a battery drain issue rather than an alternator one. The car doesn't cut out while driving and is absolutely fine until left overnight at which point it needs to be jumped. How do I go about finding an auto electrcician? I've done a google but in my area it shows only radio and dash cam installers. I did also do an OBD scan and no fault codes were flagged up. Also Bob you're right, there's supposed to be a warning light as per owners manual when the battery is not charging which I definitely haven't seen illuminated.
From what I understand so far in regards to CRA the Lexus dealer is no longer liable as the 6 month period is over and unless I can prove the fault was present at the time of purchase there's no come back. I've spoken with the Honda dealer who has the car and obviously they've advised it's impossible to know at what point the alternators performance started to deteriorate.
The techs at Honda did carry out a battery health check of which they've provided a photo showing that the battery health registers as "good"... after which they've recommended a new one!
Like Bob and Sheepshanks have suggested, I would've thought it would be a battery drain issue rather than an alternator one. The car doesn't cut out while driving and is absolutely fine until left overnight at which point it needs to be jumped. How do I go about finding an auto electrcician? I've done a google but in my area it shows only radio and dash cam installers. I did also do an OBD scan and no fault codes were flagged up. Also Bob you're right, there's supposed to be a warning light as per owners manual when the battery is not charging which I definitely haven't seen illuminated.
From what I understand so far in regards to CRA the Lexus dealer is no longer liable as the 6 month period is over and unless I can prove the fault was present at the time of purchase there's no come back. I've spoken with the Honda dealer who has the car and obviously they've advised it's impossible to know at what point the alternators performance started to deteriorate.
The techs at Honda did carry out a battery health check of which they've provided a photo showing that the battery health registers as "good"... after which they've recommended a new one!
Matt_E_Mulsion said:
The Vendor ie the Lexus dealer sold a second hand car four year old car (that they are not a franchised dealer for) over six months ago to the OP and supplied it with a six month warranty. At no point during this six month period has the OP made a claim or made anyone aware that there may be an issue.
The Lexus dealer has done nothing wrong. How can you suggest that they should be in any way liable for a fault that has reared its head at this stage of the game?
Have a read of the link I posted earlier. The Lexus dealer has done nothing wrong. How can you suggest that they should be in any way liable for a fault that has reared its head at this stage of the game?
The CRA gives very powerful ongoing rights. The 6 month period is significant, but it's certainly not the end of the matter.
Warranties are a red herring. They are in addition to consumer rights - they don't replace them (which is another good reason not to pay for them on used cars)
My wife has (an admittedly older) Honda Civic which suffered from the battery going flat, and also the aircon stopped working.
The flat battery was a defective bluetooth module, and the aircon failure was a £20 relay that had failed.
This won't be the problem with your car as it's a different model, but both of these were common problems on my wife's model of Civic and I found them by a bit of googling.
Other than this nothing major has gone wrong with the car, which is a 57 plate, so I'd think your issue is probably something minor and straightforward.
The flat battery was a defective bluetooth module, and the aircon failure was a £20 relay that had failed.
This won't be the problem with your car as it's a different model, but both of these were common problems on my wife's model of Civic and I found them by a bit of googling.
Other than this nothing major has gone wrong with the car, which is a 57 plate, so I'd think your issue is probably something minor and straightforward.
Canon_Fodder said:
Have a read of the link I posted earlier.
The CRA gives very powerful ongoing rights. The 6 month period is significant, but it's certainly not the end of the matter.
Warranties are a red herring. They are in addition to consumer rights - they don't replace them (which is another good reason not to pay for them on used cars)
Good luck proving that the fault was present at the time of sale, when the car has worked fine for 6 months. It's irrelevant anyway as he's beyond 6mths.The CRA gives very powerful ongoing rights. The 6 month period is significant, but it's certainly not the end of the matter.
Warranties are a red herring. They are in addition to consumer rights - they don't replace them (which is another good reason not to pay for them on used cars)
The rest of the CRA is no help - it doesn't say items shouldn't need repairing at owners expense. It's only useful if the whole item is beyond repair.
Just a thought - I'm no expert - but could it be simply going flat through lack of use? OP states low mileage over its lifespan. Is it actually getting a good chance to charge up or is it sitting around for days between short drives? Isn't there a test to see if the alternator is sending current to the battery?
Yadizzle1 said:
How do I go about finding an auto electrcician?
Your profile includes Oxford and Google brings up Ivor Terrill Auto Electrical Ltd - obviously I know nothing about them.Try local Facebook etc for recomendations. However this should be basic stuff to any decent garage.
Is the car still with Honda - have you asked if they'll try for goodwill (I think it's up to the dealer to push for these things)?
Could just be lack of use - daughter has a Jazz that and the battery went flat after one of her kids turned the rear interior light on and left it. The battery was never the same after that, coupled with not being used much and she had it replaced (without telling me so the AA charged £100 for the tiny battery the Jazz has). Bear in mind it takes hours of run time to recharge a battery - 15 mins now and again is no good.
Edited by Sheepshanks on Thursday 25th March 15:27
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