Solicitors charges for dealing with a will?
Discussion
I have been contacted by a friend whose father died recently. He initially thought there was no will but on contacting one firm of solicitors it transpires that they have one! So at least there is a valid will, however it is poorly worded as it only leaves the estate to the 4 children at the time, it didn't take into account any more kids, of which there is one. The named four children are quite happy to cut their sibling in and I have mentioned that a deed of variation could be used. The estate is worth about £500K and includes two properties.
Anyway, although the eldest brother is the named as executor they are looking at retaining a solicitor to do all the work.
They have had three quotes so far ranging from a flat fee of £10,000 to £10,000 (2% of the estate) PLUS £230 per hour with an estimated 30 hours work, so a total of £16,900. £10,000 seems excessive to me and £10,000 PLUS £230 per hour just taking the mickey. These figures don't include any charges for the deed of variation.
My question is are these the going rates? Anyone have any better suggestions? And finally anyone with experience of being executor shed any light on how easy/time consuming it is to finalise and distribute an estate and comply with all legislative requrements?
Thanks in advance.
Anyway, although the eldest brother is the named as executor they are looking at retaining a solicitor to do all the work.
They have had three quotes so far ranging from a flat fee of £10,000 to £10,000 (2% of the estate) PLUS £230 per hour with an estimated 30 hours work, so a total of £16,900. £10,000 seems excessive to me and £10,000 PLUS £230 per hour just taking the mickey. These figures don't include any charges for the deed of variation.
My question is are these the going rates? Anyone have any better suggestions? And finally anyone with experience of being executor shed any light on how easy/time consuming it is to finalise and distribute an estate and comply with all legislative requrements?
Thanks in advance.
I've been acting as an executor for my FIL estate, of a similar value.
Thus far, I've not found the process too bad. The inheritance tax paperwork was probably the most time consuming piece of work, which was delayed having to wait for the Income tax and Pension service to decide whether he owed any tax or overpaid state pension.
Once i had all that, the paperwork was completed, submitted and the inheritance tax paid from the liquid assets he had.
Waited a couple of weeks and then applied for probate.
Had to chase HMRC to forward the probate summary (IHT421) to the probate office, after that i got probate granted which took less that 6 weeks in total. Notice placed in the Gazette the day i received the grant in the post. I also applied for the clearance certificate (IHT30) around the same time, took a few weeks but i've had that back now.
I waited till probate was granted until i put his house on the market, but could have done it earlier so that the grant of probate was issued during the sale.
Considering i was quoted a similar sum to do all that for me, clearly I've saved a fortune!
What i will add, was the whole process was made much easier due to Banks / Building societies / Post office transferring us all of his money following his death, without having to wait for probate to be granted. That enabled us to pay for funeral and inheritance tax immediately.
Thus far, I've not found the process too bad. The inheritance tax paperwork was probably the most time consuming piece of work, which was delayed having to wait for the Income tax and Pension service to decide whether he owed any tax or overpaid state pension.
Once i had all that, the paperwork was completed, submitted and the inheritance tax paid from the liquid assets he had.
Waited a couple of weeks and then applied for probate.
Had to chase HMRC to forward the probate summary (IHT421) to the probate office, after that i got probate granted which took less that 6 weeks in total. Notice placed in the Gazette the day i received the grant in the post. I also applied for the clearance certificate (IHT30) around the same time, took a few weeks but i've had that back now.
I waited till probate was granted until i put his house on the market, but could have done it earlier so that the grant of probate was issued during the sale.
Considering i was quoted a similar sum to do all that for me, clearly I've saved a fortune!
What i will add, was the whole process was made much easier due to Banks / Building societies / Post office transferring us all of his money following his death, without having to wait for probate to be granted. That enabled us to pay for funeral and inheritance tax immediately.
The figures sound insane however he needs to bear in mind they’re going to be split five ways so he’s doing all the work to gain himself £2K.
I’ve done it three times - it’s easy enough but pretty laborious and I never had to deal with inheritance tax. I had to deal with selling houses in two cases but both were very straightforward.
I’ve done it three times - it’s easy enough but pretty laborious and I never had to deal with inheritance tax. I had to deal with selling houses in two cases but both were very straightforward.
Thanks guys. Shouldn't be any IHT if it comes in at £500K or lower, don't know actual values yet but it's close.
I presume there is a checklist online for what has to be done and which forms are needed etc?
I have already explained that £10K is only dropping from £100K to £98K each. I guess if you are sole beneficiary it's a much easier decidion to decide to do it all yourself and safe yourself all the money.
I presume there is a checklist online for what has to be done and which forms are needed etc?
I have already explained that £10K is only dropping from £100K to £98K each. I guess if you are sole beneficiary it's a much easier decidion to decide to do it all yourself and safe yourself all the money.
I assume that there is a trust or some other element of complexity as to the estate, and the Will is not just a series of straightforward bequests. I do not think that anyone here can appraise whether £10,000 is or is not a fair fee for the work because the extent and complexity of the work are unknown. Bear in mind also that when giving an estimate as to fees a service provider may not yet have a clear idea of how much work is involved and may quote high on a cautionary basis. Negotiate. Fees are not set in stone.
The skills and experience that are useful when dealing with trusts and what not are often deployed to deal with estates worth millions, and are priced accordingly, but bear in mind also that even a lower value estate may require a similar amount of work. Thus a fee of £10,000 might or might not be outlandish, but, as I say above, that depends on what is involved.
The skills and experience that are useful when dealing with trusts and what not are often deployed to deal with estates worth millions, and are priced accordingly, but bear in mind also that even a lower value estate may require a similar amount of work. Thus a fee of £10,000 might or might not be outlandish, but, as I say above, that depends on what is involved.
My mothers estate was barely a 10th of this with an end invoice of about £2k, however it dragged on for nearly 12 months before settlement.My only advice is to keep in regular contact with the solicitor, my brother acted as lead executor as the office was in his home town. He delegated the job to the solicitor as he'd only just finished dealing with his late MiL's will, it took the solicitor 3 months just to apply for probate(pre CV19)and 2 months for that to be granted then the person dealing with the case went on maternity leave and the case was passed to a sub office 60miles away. So whilst I won't comment on the fees, keeping in regular communication with the solicitor would be my advice, I suspect my mothers estate just wasn't a big earner for the company.
The will must be quite complex.
I've done 3 and been involved with one.
The 3 I've done were straightforward, one involved IHT too.
The other, my late FiL, was done by Bank solicitors at an unknown cost. As far as I could see, the family did all the work, the solicitors just sent off the forms....
I've done 3 and been involved with one.
The 3 I've done were straightforward, one involved IHT too.
The other, my late FiL, was done by Bank solicitors at an unknown cost. As far as I could see, the family did all the work, the solicitors just sent off the forms....
AlwynMike said:
The other, my late FiL, was done by Bank solicitors at an unknown cost. As far as I could see, the family did all the work, the solicitors just sent off the forms....
Yes, that's a good point. Solicitor did wife's Godfather's Will - she'd had POA and we'd been running his life for a couple of years. So we had to do all the work of getting things together for the solictor. It was a little awkward as there was distant family nosing around and pointing out that we weren't actually related to him so a completely independent hand was welcome.I just looked at the account and he charged £1600 + VAT which I recall thinking seemed very reasonable as there were a lot of individual bequests and the solicitor has to write to them all to confirm correct name and address etc before sending the dosh. They also handled the legal side of the sale of the house and that was £575+VAT. His estate was worth about £150K.
A non complex estate of small to moderate size can be administered without professional assistance, unless you are inherently averse to a bit of form filling and what not. If things are more complicated, then you have to weigh up the value of your own time, and the possibility of making an uninsured expensive mistake that someone gets annoyed enough to complain of.
Yep, but I assumed that the question wouldn't even have been asked if the bequests were simply "Hey kids, have one quarter of my stash each", as in that case each of the beneficiaries can simply give whatever they like to the fifth child, and the Will is no longer relevant. The living are only ruled by the wishes of the dead if there is a trust.
Breadvan72 said:
Yep, but I assumed that the question wouldn't even have been asked if the bequests were simply "Hey kids, have one quarter of my stash each", as in that case each of the beneficiaries can simply give whatever they like to the fifth child, and the Will is no longer relevant. The living are only ruled by the wishes of the dead if there is a trust.
I think they can just write a letter, with all names etc confirming that they are happy to split the estate 5 ways not 4 and that will suffice.Another question I think (I haven't seen the will) that all personal possessions are to be given to the eldest son. Would this include his boat?
If that is what you think, why get your friend all excited about needless Deeds? If the bequests are simple, no documents of any kind may be needed. Anyone is free to give away what is entirely theirs. Polite suggestion, OP. Maybe read the Will before advising your friend.
Is a boat a possession? Er, yes it is.
Is a boat a possession? Er, yes it is.
Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 29th March 11:21
Breadvan72 said:
Polite suggestion,OP. Maybe read the Will before advising your friend.
Is a boat a possession? Er, yes it is.
I am not qualified to, nor wish to, advise my friend in this area. I was just after some guidance re costs from my learned friends on PH. I have directed my friend to this thread for their information and guidance as they are still undecided about whether to instruct solicitors.Is a boat a possession? Er, yes it is.
Enut said:
... I have mentioned that a deed of variation could be used. ...
That sounds like giving advice to me. Anyway, there is nothing wrong in getting a bunch of speeding ticket geeks all excited about a Will which neither you nor they have ever seen. Nobody ever claimed that this forum was supposed to be useful!Breadvan72 said:
That sounds like giving advice to me. Anyway, there is nothing wrong in getting a bunch of speeding ticket geeks all excited about a Will which neither you nor they have ever seen. Nobody ever claimed that this forum was supposed to be useful!
I have been very clear that I can't give advice, I came on here to try and get some real world examples of costs people have been charge by solicitors dealing with estates, PHers are real people after all. And contrary to the above the forum is often helpful. Going through similar now, ~400k estate and been quoted £950 incl VAT to execute will and transfer house ownership into two names. Seemed cheap to me but they are a family solicitor so who knows, but for that price I wasnt going through the added stress of filling out forms. I did have to find and gather all account info etc which was hard.
Enut said:
.... there is a valid will, however it is poorly worded as it only leaves the estate to the 4 children at the time, it didn't take into account any more kids, of which there is one. The named four children are quite happy to cut their sibling in .......
Why do you want all the expense of trying to change a will?Surely the easiest way of doing it is, after everything is sorted and you have a final figure for the value of the estate, just divide it up as per the will.
The 4 siblings can then each give 20% of their share to the fifth sibling. That way all 5 siblings get an equal 20% share of the estate.
(Of course, this could be where you find out that the 'four children are quite happy to cut their sibling in' may not be true!!)
NGee said:
Why do you want all the expense of trying to change a will?
Surely the easiest way of doing it is, after everything is sorted and you have a final figure for the value of the estate, just divide it up as per the will.
The 4 siblings can then each give 20% of their share to the fifth sibling. That way all 5 siblings get an equal 20% share of the estate.
(Of course, this could be where you find out that the 'four children are quite happy to cut their sibling in' may not be true!!)
Tax implications ?Surely the easiest way of doing it is, after everything is sorted and you have a final figure for the value of the estate, just divide it up as per the will.
The 4 siblings can then each give 20% of their share to the fifth sibling. That way all 5 siblings get an equal 20% share of the estate.
(Of course, this could be where you find out that the 'four children are quite happy to cut their sibling in' may not be true!!)
semisane said:
NGee said:
Why do you want all the expense of trying to change a will?
Surely the easiest way of doing it is, after everything is sorted and you have a final figure for the value of the estate, just divide it up as per the will.
The 4 siblings can then each give 20% of their share to the fifth sibling. That way all 5 siblings get an equal 20% share of the estate.
(Of course, this could be where you find out that the 'four children are quite happy to cut their sibling in' may not be true!!)
Tax implications ?Surely the easiest way of doing it is, after everything is sorted and you have a final figure for the value of the estate, just divide it up as per the will.
The 4 siblings can then each give 20% of their share to the fifth sibling. That way all 5 siblings get an equal 20% share of the estate.
(Of course, this could be where you find out that the 'four children are quite happy to cut their sibling in' may not be true!!)
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