Disputed Invoices for repair advice?
Discussion
Good Afternoon,
I am not sure if this is the correct section of the forum to post this but I was looking for advice please. I ave my car to a local mechanic because the car was smokey. The mechanic said the car needed a new turbo and some work to the suspension when it was inspected. I agreed to the work but the new turbo did not remedy the smokey exhaust. The mechanic then advised me the head of the engine should be removed and reconditioned by an engineering company. I got the car back but was still a little but was told it was oil residue in exhaust system and I should drive the car for a couple of days and it will burn off and clear itself. However it did not clear and took the car back to mechanics. After further investigation the mechanic said the engine was burning oil and I needed a "new" or reconditioned engine.
I told the garage I had lost faith in their abilities and did not feel comfortable for them to fit a new engine. The garage which is an independent gave me two invoices totalling £3.5k for turbo, reconditioned head and work to suspension and labour. I told them I am not paying because Turbo was diagnosed, when head was off car it was a good time to inspect internals of engine for wear and because the car was not worth much if I was told it needed a new engine I would not have agreed to other work for a car I have no use of because of car burning oil.
The garage is now taking me to a solicitor. Where do I stand and what can I do?
I am not sure if this is the correct section of the forum to post this but I was looking for advice please. I ave my car to a local mechanic because the car was smokey. The mechanic said the car needed a new turbo and some work to the suspension when it was inspected. I agreed to the work but the new turbo did not remedy the smokey exhaust. The mechanic then advised me the head of the engine should be removed and reconditioned by an engineering company. I got the car back but was still a little but was told it was oil residue in exhaust system and I should drive the car for a couple of days and it will burn off and clear itself. However it did not clear and took the car back to mechanics. After further investigation the mechanic said the engine was burning oil and I needed a "new" or reconditioned engine.
I told the garage I had lost faith in their abilities and did not feel comfortable for them to fit a new engine. The garage which is an independent gave me two invoices totalling £3.5k for turbo, reconditioned head and work to suspension and labour. I told them I am not paying because Turbo was diagnosed, when head was off car it was a good time to inspect internals of engine for wear and because the car was not worth much if I was told it needed a new engine I would not have agreed to other work for a car I have no use of because of car burning oil.
The garage is now taking me to a solicitor. Where do I stand and what can I do?
Hmmm, sounds like a monumental miss diagnosis on the garages behalf! It's a very difficult one and I can see it from both sides, if there solicitor is anything like the one I used to try and recover a debt then you've got nothing to worry about! All I ended up with was a £300 bill and got told sorry it looks like they won't pay
Jumpingjackflash said:
Good Afternoon,
I am not sure if this is the correct section of the forum to post this but I was looking for advice please. I ave my car to a local mechanic because the car was smokey. The mechanic said the car needed a new turbo and some work to the suspension when it was inspected. I agreed to the work but the new turbo did not remedy the smokey exhaust. The mechanic then advised me the head of the engine should be removed and reconditioned by an engineering company. I got the car back but was still a little but was told it was oil residue in exhaust system and I should drive the car for a couple of days and it will burn off and clear itself. However it did not clear and took the car back to mechanics. After further investigation the mechanic said the engine was burning oil and I needed a "new" or reconditioned engine.
I told the garage I had lost faith in their abilities and did not feel comfortable for them to fit a new engine. The garage which is an independent gave me two invoices totalling £3.5k for turbo, reconditioned head and work to suspension and labour. I told them I am not paying because Turbo was diagnosed, when head was off car it was a good time to inspect internals of engine for wear and because the car was not worth much if I was told it needed a new engine I would not have agreed to other work for a car I have no use of because of car burning oil.
The garage is now taking me to a solicitor. Where do I stand and what can I do?
When you 'agreed' to the work was it conditional on curing the smokey exhaust? Was anything written down?I am not sure if this is the correct section of the forum to post this but I was looking for advice please. I ave my car to a local mechanic because the car was smokey. The mechanic said the car needed a new turbo and some work to the suspension when it was inspected. I agreed to the work but the new turbo did not remedy the smokey exhaust. The mechanic then advised me the head of the engine should be removed and reconditioned by an engineering company. I got the car back but was still a little but was told it was oil residue in exhaust system and I should drive the car for a couple of days and it will burn off and clear itself. However it did not clear and took the car back to mechanics. After further investigation the mechanic said the engine was burning oil and I needed a "new" or reconditioned engine.
I told the garage I had lost faith in their abilities and did not feel comfortable for them to fit a new engine. The garage which is an independent gave me two invoices totalling £3.5k for turbo, reconditioned head and work to suspension and labour. I told them I am not paying because Turbo was diagnosed, when head was off car it was a good time to inspect internals of engine for wear and because the car was not worth much if I was told it needed a new engine I would not have agreed to other work for a car I have no use of because of car burning oil.
The garage is now taking me to a solicitor. Where do I stand and what can I do?
Likewise when you also presumably agreed to the head being reconditioned?
How much did you think this was all going to cost?
They have now done all the work that you agreed to and, rightly so, expect to get paid. It sounds to me that a much longer conversation was needed before any work was done, especially regarding potential cost and what should happen if the original fault was not cured.
Unfortunately nowadays, partly due to the way cars are built, we do not have any mechanics or engineers. We live in a world of 'fitters'.
Fit part A, charge the customer.
If that doesn't work, fit part B, charge the customer.
If that doesn't work, fit part C, charge the customer. etc. etc.
I agree it's a s
tty system but that's the way it is, and you should have worked out exactly what you were paying for, before agreeing anything.Even a good mechanic may sometimes have to go through several attempts at diagnosing a problem. Having said that, a prudent mechanic might say at the outset "It might be X, but if it isn't X, it could be Y, or even Z, and we won't know until we've looked further". Did you have any conversations of that kind?
Offering to pay for the work that is not disputed would be a sensible idea. You could ask another mechanic to give you a view on what was done, but you would have to pay for that. Much depends on how much the car is worth to you financially and/or sentimentally, and how well resourced you are. You could of course engage your own solicitor, but the cost to value ratio of doing so for a dispute of this size would not be great.
Offering to pay for the work that is not disputed would be a sensible idea. You could ask another mechanic to give you a view on what was done, but you would have to pay for that. Much depends on how much the car is worth to you financially and/or sentimentally, and how well resourced you are. You could of course engage your own solicitor, but the cost to value ratio of doing so for a dispute of this size would not be great.
Very true there is not a lot of good mechanics anymore.
I am not a mechanic but I have an understanding of engines.
A turbo and its surrounding houses can be checked for excessive oil and wear.
Surly when head is off engine the internals can be inspected before being sent of for repair.
And surely the engine fault mussed be dial first and properly before any other work is carried out.
It just looks to me badly dealt with from the start and if it was my business I would be embarrassed at my work.
I should mention the final diagnoses was removing the manifold. Why was that not done at the beginning before replacing turbos and talking head off engine?
I am not a mechanic but I have an understanding of engines.
A turbo and its surrounding houses can be checked for excessive oil and wear.
Surly when head is off engine the internals can be inspected before being sent of for repair.
And surely the engine fault mussed be dial first and properly before any other work is carried out.
It just looks to me badly dealt with from the start and if it was my business I would be embarrassed at my work.
I should mention the final diagnoses was removing the manifold. Why was that not done at the beginning before replacing turbos and talking head off engine?
Some vehicles have a valve system inside the Intake Manifold. Along with an EGR which basically opens and allows built up fumes and oil to be burnt in the combustion chambers.
These manifolds can get filthy and block up.
Certainly on the Vauxhall Vectra 1.9 CDTI Fiat Engine!
What make and model is the car?
These manifolds can get filthy and block up.
Certainly on the Vauxhall Vectra 1.9 CDTI Fiat Engine!
What make and model is the car?
Jumpingjackflash said:
No it wasn’t compression tested.
Well there's your answer then, the simplest and most obvious thing to do first.You say you have an understanding of engines - I think you might want to reconsider that.
I am really struggling here to see who is worse. The garage for taking the piss or you for 'agreeing' to let them.
I think that you are being a tad harsh. Those of us who are not ourselves good with spanners have to trust quite a lot to the mechanics that we hire to look at our cars. I don't know enough about what happened in the OP's case to have a view on whether the garage was or was not at fault, not least because I don't know what conversations the OP had with the mechanic at various stages of the work, but whatever has gone wrong, if something has, isn't obviously the OP's fault either.
OP, taking a very broad brush approach, and given (1) the amount in dispute, and (2) the fact that this may not be a car of special monetary or sentimental value, I wonder if a quick and dirty 50/50 settlement might be a good idea. But please tell more of what discussions you had with the mechanic, as that may assist in assessing whether you should take a different course.
OP, taking a very broad brush approach, and given (1) the amount in dispute, and (2) the fact that this may not be a car of special monetary or sentimental value, I wonder if a quick and dirty 50/50 settlement might be a good idea. But please tell more of what discussions you had with the mechanic, as that may assist in assessing whether you should take a different course.
Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 2nd April 15:18
Breadvan72 said:
I think that you are being a tad harsh. Those of us who are not ourselves good with spanners have to trust quite a lot to the mechanics that we hire to look at our cars. I don't know enough about what happened in the OP's case to have a view on whether the garage was or was not at fault, not least because I don't know what conversations the OP had with the mechanic at various stages of the work, but whatever has gone wrong, if something has, isn't obviously the OP's fault either.
I agree, and if it had been little miss Daisy Slowcoach I wouldn't have been at all harsh, however the OP stated he had an understanding of engines, hence why I think he should have been able to have a conversation about what needed doing first. I also agree that we don't know what conversations the OP had with the mechanic at various stages of the work.
I suspect there was very little said at all and this is where it has all gone wrong - from both sides.
Breadvan72 said:
OP, taking a very broad brush approach, and given (1) the amount in dispute, and (2) the fact that this may not be a car of special monetary or sentimental value, I wonder if a quick and dirty 50/50 settlement might be a good idea. But please tell more of what discussions you had with the mechanic, as that may assist in assessing whether you should take a different course.
Yeah, or possibly try come to an agreement they keep the car to fix it up and sell it to recoup their money. Might sound crazy but from what the OP has posted it seems like he’d have preferred to scrap the car rather than repair if he knew what he was in for at the outset.Edited by Breadvan72 on Friday 2nd April 15:18
That’s kind of a guess tho without knowing what car it is, what the bill for a refurb bottom end would be fitted and what the value would be in good condition... it’s seems unreasonable to expect to walk away with a new turbo, head and suspension without paying them anything.
Jumpingjackflash said:
Good Afternoon,
I am not sure if this is the correct section of the forum to post this but I was looking for advice please. I ave my car to a local mechanic because the car was smokey. The mechanic said the car needed a new turbo and some work to the suspension when it was inspected. I agreed to the work but the new turbo did not remedy the smokey exhaust. The mechanic then advised me the head of the engine should be removed and reconditioned by an engineering company. I got the car back but was still a little but was told it was oil residue in exhaust system and I should drive the car for a couple of days and it will burn off and clear itself. However it did not clear and took the car back to mechanics. After further investigation the mechanic said the engine was burning oil and I needed a "new" or reconditioned engine.
I told the garage I had lost faith in their abilities and did not feel comfortable for them to fit a new engine. The garage which is an independent gave me two invoices totalling £3.5k for turbo, reconditioned head and work to suspension and labour. I told them I am not paying because Turbo was diagnosed, when head was off car it was a good time to inspect internals of engine for wear and because the car was not worth much if I was told it needed a new engine I would not have agreed to other work for a car I have no use of because of car burning oil.
The garage is now taking me to a solicitor. Where do I stand and what can I do?
Every garage i send my car to asks me to pay before i pick it up. I thought that was standard practice, even at main dealer. I am not sure if this is the correct section of the forum to post this but I was looking for advice please. I ave my car to a local mechanic because the car was smokey. The mechanic said the car needed a new turbo and some work to the suspension when it was inspected. I agreed to the work but the new turbo did not remedy the smokey exhaust. The mechanic then advised me the head of the engine should be removed and reconditioned by an engineering company. I got the car back but was still a little but was told it was oil residue in exhaust system and I should drive the car for a couple of days and it will burn off and clear itself. However it did not clear and took the car back to mechanics. After further investigation the mechanic said the engine was burning oil and I needed a "new" or reconditioned engine.
I told the garage I had lost faith in their abilities and did not feel comfortable for them to fit a new engine. The garage which is an independent gave me two invoices totalling £3.5k for turbo, reconditioned head and work to suspension and labour. I told them I am not paying because Turbo was diagnosed, when head was off car it was a good time to inspect internals of engine for wear and because the car was not worth much if I was told it needed a new engine I would not have agreed to other work for a car I have no use of because of car burning oil.
The garage is now taking me to a solicitor. Where do I stand and what can I do?
Did you pay the bill? Did the garage let you take the car without paying
The garage still has the car. The car was Smokey but dreadful. If the garage investigated the fault properly and I was advised to get a new engine I would have traded the car in.
I feel wrongly advised and miss guided. I feel the mechanic was not competent and I lost confidence in his abilities. I certainly don’t don’t feel comfortable with his swapping an engine.
Can you imagine watching the next episode of Harry’s Garage when he spends lots of money on his Range Rover getting new suspension, new turbo, head removed and reconditioned but then told after all that work, time and money the engine is knackered. I don’t think the garage would look very good and Harry wouldn’t be impressed.
I feel wrongly advised and miss guided. I feel the mechanic was not competent and I lost confidence in his abilities. I certainly don’t don’t feel comfortable with his swapping an engine.
Can you imagine watching the next episode of Harry’s Garage when he spends lots of money on his Range Rover getting new suspension, new turbo, head removed and reconditioned but then told after all that work, time and money the engine is knackered. I don’t think the garage would look very good and Harry wouldn’t be impressed.
I think most of us sympathize with the situation you're in, and the fact you feel aggrieved.
The requirement now though is about how to move forward.
Just not paying anything is not a sustainable position I feel, as the garage can evidence they have carried out agreed work, plus they have your car from which to recover their costs.
Your car went wrong, so you would have incurred some cost: be it reduced trade in value, or repairs.
It's now a negotiation around how much cost, and who pays for (in hindsight) misdiagnosed work? Plus minimising legal /storage costs.
How about you pay parts, they swallow labour on misdiagnosed work?
Context is everything...my car with a broken engine is nearly worth as much in parts as it is working. Yours..who knows? (Apart from you of course)
Hth
Ian
The requirement now though is about how to move forward.
Just not paying anything is not a sustainable position I feel, as the garage can evidence they have carried out agreed work, plus they have your car from which to recover their costs.
Your car went wrong, so you would have incurred some cost: be it reduced trade in value, or repairs.
It's now a negotiation around how much cost, and who pays for (in hindsight) misdiagnosed work? Plus minimising legal /storage costs.
How about you pay parts, they swallow labour on misdiagnosed work?
Context is everything...my car with a broken engine is nearly worth as much in parts as it is working. Yours..who knows? (Apart from you of course)
Hth
Ian
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