Planning permission and nightmare neighbour
Discussion
I'll try and keep this brief:
- Family member had planning permission for kitchen extension granted.
- Before construction started, neighbour was informed trees on boundary would need removing and some scaffold would be needed on their side of boundary for remedial work and new extension. Agreed by neighbour making builders aware of rotten decking.
- Construction started. Scaffold went up for remedial work. Remedial work competed and scaffold removed.
- Construction carried on until scaffold require again for roofing.
- Scaffold went up when house-holder and neighbour both out.
- Neighbour throws tantrum about scaffold going up when she wasn't in and revoked permission for access.
- Neighbour and her family who do not live with her visits lone female householder with baby on multiple occasions, arguing and causing fear and distress to point the new mum will not leave the house.
- Scaffold removed as soon as practicable, before construction could be finished.
- Construction of roof finished from ladders, from inside boundary.
- Neighbour filming across boundary throughout.
- New fence constructed, Neighbour threatens to report fencing contractors to police even though they did not go on her land.
- Neighbour has repeatedly complained to planning department, including steps on patio were moved from one edge to centre of patio, height of fence (6 foot plus two foot decorative extension) not tall enough, building work hasn't been finished.
- Council visited saying complaint received. Allowed in, took lots of photos and went away.
- Council visited again. Another complaint. Suggested retrospective planing permission be applied for for moving steps to centre of patio, and to render wall to complainant.
- Retrospective permission granted for moving steps and for render finish in November.
- Neighbour will not allow access even though complaining.
- Police informed of neighbours actions, regarding intimidating visits in person, multiple complaints to council, and filming across the boundary, and constantly harassing builder via text message.
- Police gave words of advice to neighbour re: filming minor and her actions. Agreed that all parties will write to each other if access required or questions about completing job.
- Council got in touch again requesting visit to check on progress of finish. Council informed that they already have multiple photos of the build from their previous visit.
- All building works not completed as electrician needs access to neighbours property to finish installation of extractor. Unwilling to go on neighbours property due to her actions.
- Has been too cold an wet to finish render and contractor does not want to go on neighbours property as she will not give permission and is demanding risk assessments.
- Main contractor has told neighbour to find someone she likes and trusts to do work from her side, and they will pay for the work.
- Neighbour's own extension trespasses boundary and the roof is even cut to fit around chimney breast. Builders say that the neighbours roof unguttered roof is draining against exterior wall and causing damp/mould, risk of blowing mortar. Cannot be reached to remedy as neighbours extension is on and crosses boundary.
And that's the short version!
A few questions
Do council have a right to enter and inspect?
Is there a time limit to complete work which was given retrospective permission?
How can work be completed if neighbour is preventing access (yet complaining about non-completion)?
Can anything be done about the neighbours extension trespassing over the boundary and causing damage?
Sorry this is so long.
- Family member had planning permission for kitchen extension granted.
- Before construction started, neighbour was informed trees on boundary would need removing and some scaffold would be needed on their side of boundary for remedial work and new extension. Agreed by neighbour making builders aware of rotten decking.
- Construction started. Scaffold went up for remedial work. Remedial work competed and scaffold removed.
- Construction carried on until scaffold require again for roofing.
- Scaffold went up when house-holder and neighbour both out.
- Neighbour throws tantrum about scaffold going up when she wasn't in and revoked permission for access.
- Neighbour and her family who do not live with her visits lone female householder with baby on multiple occasions, arguing and causing fear and distress to point the new mum will not leave the house.
- Scaffold removed as soon as practicable, before construction could be finished.
- Construction of roof finished from ladders, from inside boundary.
- Neighbour filming across boundary throughout.
- New fence constructed, Neighbour threatens to report fencing contractors to police even though they did not go on her land.
- Neighbour has repeatedly complained to planning department, including steps on patio were moved from one edge to centre of patio, height of fence (6 foot plus two foot decorative extension) not tall enough, building work hasn't been finished.
- Council visited saying complaint received. Allowed in, took lots of photos and went away.
- Council visited again. Another complaint. Suggested retrospective planing permission be applied for for moving steps to centre of patio, and to render wall to complainant.
- Retrospective permission granted for moving steps and for render finish in November.
- Neighbour will not allow access even though complaining.
- Police informed of neighbours actions, regarding intimidating visits in person, multiple complaints to council, and filming across the boundary, and constantly harassing builder via text message.
- Police gave words of advice to neighbour re: filming minor and her actions. Agreed that all parties will write to each other if access required or questions about completing job.
- Council got in touch again requesting visit to check on progress of finish. Council informed that they already have multiple photos of the build from their previous visit.
- All building works not completed as electrician needs access to neighbours property to finish installation of extractor. Unwilling to go on neighbours property due to her actions.
- Has been too cold an wet to finish render and contractor does not want to go on neighbours property as she will not give permission and is demanding risk assessments.
- Main contractor has told neighbour to find someone she likes and trusts to do work from her side, and they will pay for the work.
- Neighbour's own extension trespasses boundary and the roof is even cut to fit around chimney breast. Builders say that the neighbours roof unguttered roof is draining against exterior wall and causing damp/mould, risk of blowing mortar. Cannot be reached to remedy as neighbours extension is on and crosses boundary.
And that's the short version!
A few questions
Do council have a right to enter and inspect?
Is there a time limit to complete work which was given retrospective permission?
How can work be completed if neighbour is preventing access (yet complaining about non-completion)?
Can anything be done about the neighbours extension trespassing over the boundary and causing damage?
Sorry this is so long.
Jurassic pork said:
A few questions
Do council have a right to enter and inspect?
Planning or building control?Do council have a right to enter and inspect?
For building control if there is reason to believe that a breach has occurred then yes they do have a legal right of access and can apply for a warrant if a polite request is refused.
Jurassic pork said:
Is there a time limit to complete work which was given retrospective permission?
Was this a separate application or an amendment to the original approval? Works generally have to be commended within 3years of approval, but I suggest you read the full wording of the retrospective permission that has been given.Jurassic pork said:
How can work be completed if neighbour is preventing access (yet complaining about non-completion)?
I assume you had a party wall agreement in place, what did that agree with regard to access to carry out the works?Jurassic pork said:
Can anything be done about the neighbours extension trespassing over the boundary and causing damage?
Yes, no, maybe. How long has it been built? Did anyone raise the issue at the time of construction? This is a civil matter so are you prepared to pay for a solicitor and pursue the matter further at your cost?You have no right of access to build only to maintain.
From reading the post it started ok. Then you didn’t ask and they said get off my land.
If you needed access to build this should have been secured up front. What does the party wall agreement say ?
Her position will be these nightmare neighbours next door are building without permission, think they have a right to access my land and make noise and dust all day building.
From reading the post it started ok. Then you didn’t ask and they said get off my land.
If you needed access to build this should have been secured up front. What does the party wall agreement say ?
Her position will be these nightmare neighbours next door are building without permission, think they have a right to access my land and make noise and dust all day building.
So from my impartial view sat here in bed and looking at this from the neighbours point of view ...
She gave you permission for the first lot of scaffolding.
When she was out you sneaked up a second lot of scaffolding by entering her land. I’d be annoyed too.
Then continue to enter her land for xyz.
You need to resolve this. First a letter apologising for the scaffolding incident and general inconvenience.
Secondly you need access to complete the project. Can you have access in exchange for £1000 or whatever figure you deem reasonable.
Complete project and send them flowers .
Live happily ever after .
She gave you permission for the first lot of scaffolding.
When she was out you sneaked up a second lot of scaffolding by entering her land. I’d be annoyed too.
Then continue to enter her land for xyz.
You need to resolve this. First a letter apologising for the scaffolding incident and general inconvenience.
Secondly you need access to complete the project. Can you have access in exchange for £1000 or whatever figure you deem reasonable.
Complete project and send them flowers .
Live happily ever after .
Jurassic pork said:
- All building works not completed as electrician needs access to neighbours property to finish installation of extractor. Unwilling to go on neighbours property due to her actions.
Why would an electrician need to go onto the neighbours property to finish installing an extractor?Common curtesy would say it vents onto your own property, not your neighbours.
Your current works and their previous works are different issues. Trying to connect them will only add to confusion and complicate a resolution. I will deal with your works.
Previous posters have referenced reliance on the party wall agreement. If one is in place, this may be helpful as a reference to what was originally agreed in terms of access. If there is an agreement and if, as stipulated by the act, surveyors are appointed by each party, then it would be best for the surveyors to reach a dispassionate and equitable agreement, taking in the concerns and needs of the parties they represent and then advise their party accordingly. Remember also that the party wall and planning processes are separate and adherence to one does not extinguish the need to comply with the other.
The remedy for breach of a party wall agreement is an injunction and damages. This is expensive and time consuming and, in this case, would be made more difficult if the original award didn't have clear provisions for access.
All of the above pre-supposes that the PWA act was followed, which isn't at all clear from the original post.
In reality, the way to resolve this issue is to find a way to come to an agreement with the neighbour. This is likely to require compromise and may cost money. Forget the tit for tat, avoid a win-at-all-costs attitude and remain focused on the end objective of getting your works finished.
Previous posters have referenced reliance on the party wall agreement. If one is in place, this may be helpful as a reference to what was originally agreed in terms of access. If there is an agreement and if, as stipulated by the act, surveyors are appointed by each party, then it would be best for the surveyors to reach a dispassionate and equitable agreement, taking in the concerns and needs of the parties they represent and then advise their party accordingly. Remember also that the party wall and planning processes are separate and adherence to one does not extinguish the need to comply with the other.
The remedy for breach of a party wall agreement is an injunction and damages. This is expensive and time consuming and, in this case, would be made more difficult if the original award didn't have clear provisions for access.
All of the above pre-supposes that the PWA act was followed, which isn't at all clear from the original post.
In reality, the way to resolve this issue is to find a way to come to an agreement with the neighbour. This is likely to require compromise and may cost money. Forget the tit for tat, avoid a win-at-all-costs attitude and remain focused on the end objective of getting your works finished.
Edited by ClaphamGT3 on Saturday 8th May 08:47
ClaphamGT3 said:
In reality, the way to resolve this issue is to find a way to come to an agreement with the neighbour. This is likely to require compromise and may cost money. Forget the tit for tat, avoid a win-at-all-costs attitude and remain focused on the end objective of getting your works finished.
^^^ ThisLawyers will cost you money. Given you have got to the point of needing to write to your neighbour, it will be cheaper in the long run to do a "mea culpa", apologise, take round a nice present, pay some money for "damages" and try to move on. Sure you "lose face" but focus on the outcome of the build.
This isn't the OP, it's a family member according to the OP who has succeded in mightily peeing off said neighbour after initially having their support by sneaking round when they were out and installing more scaffolding apparently without their consent.
I think that would pee most people off.
Humble pie might be in order but sounds like it is a bit late for that.
I think that would pee most people off.
Humble pie might be in order but sounds like it is a bit late for that.
craig511 said:
^ as I said above , this is what it all comes down to.
Neighbours goes out. Neighbour comes home to find more scaffolding erected with any prior discussion.
This.Neighbours goes out. Neighbour comes home to find more scaffolding erected with any prior discussion.
I would be fuming if I came home to find scaffolding erected on my land without discussion. I wouldn't resort to filming or being a prick about it though.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
We have limited details about the nature of the works and therefore the relevance of the Party Wall Act but, as a general principle, the PWA exists to enable the developing party to undertake works to the party wall and for the adjoining party to have their rights and interests protected and any loss or damage suffered appropriately compensated. The 'wall' doesn't have to be a physical wall. In extremis, it is possible to force an adjoining order to permit works through the courts but it is extremely expensive and time consumingJurassic pork said:
baby
Jurassic pork said:
new mum
I'm wondering if there's a link between the above and her response to the situation (ie, dramatic changes to her biology due to birth causing an uncharacteristic response - after all, some new mothers have felt suicidal, murderous at no fault of their own).A difficult subject to breach but: https://www.mind.org.uk/information-support/types-...
Edited by ReverendCounter on Saturday 8th May 12:53
Had a loft conversion done at my house, had everything planned and cleared with my neighbours. Came home on day one to find their garden full of scaffolding.
Went and ate humble pie because I had no idea that was happening, and handed over a crate of scotch.
All happy.
Sometimes f
k ups happen, then it's down to miscreant to put it right
Went and ate humble pie because I had no idea that was happening, and handed over a crate of scotch.
All happy.
Sometimes f
k ups happen, then it's down to miscreant to put it rightWith all the problems in the world atm it is beyond me why people get so upset and go to long lengths over something (in my view) that seems reasonably trivial - suspect there are some more nuances to this story
I recall my mothers neighbours called the police and said they were being invaded by a gardener who was trimming hedge near the boundary.
Police arrived and were not impressed
it transpires that these neighbours have fallen out with all other properties that share a boundary with them, over many years, and it continues to date
nowt so odd as folk and all that
I recall my mothers neighbours called the police and said they were being invaded by a gardener who was trimming hedge near the boundary.
Police arrived and were not impressed
it transpires that these neighbours have fallen out with all other properties that share a boundary with them, over many years, and it continues to date
nowt so odd as folk and all that
I had this when I demolished a house and built a new one in its place. I sat down with the neighbour and had an adult conversation where I alluded we could live in peace and harmony after the project was finished, or I could dedicate my finances and time into making their life a living hell.
The bouncy castle in the back garden was my best moment, the neighbour loved that 👍
The bouncy castle in the back garden was my best moment, the neighbour loved that 👍
CArmo123 said:
I had this when I demolished a house and built a new one in its place. I sat down with the neighbour and had an adult conversation where I alluded we could live in peace and harmony after the project was finished, or I could dedicate my finances and time into making their life a living hell.
The bouncy castle in the back garden was my best moment, the neighbour loved that ??
What would you have done if they responded that they in turn would put all their effort and resources into making your life hell ?The bouncy castle in the back garden was my best moment, the neighbour loved that ??
You could easily have ended up with one or more knackered old vans parked on the road right outside your house, that is exactly what I would do if someone threatened to make my life hell.
Added to the loud music/films (my sub makes the house shake when turned up) until 10.30pm etc etc
Threatening people often has implications.
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