charity website
Discussion
I have just spent 20mins reading info on a registered charities website and i have to say i find it quite scary.
I won't name the site out of fairness but it is named after a part of your car!
The site encourages drivers to slow down to save lives, despite posting no evidence of any causal link, only saying that deaths caused by drink drivers were more than likely to involve high speed(good solid evidence there then).
the bit that got me though was the section on how to control the speed of your vehicle, i actually thought there might be some sensible driver skill related info in this but no, the solutions are camera's, speed bumps and speed limited vehicles! what about the driver? it is all possible through driver skill, education and awareness.
These people are campaigning for a worthy cause, road safety, but they are abusing the position of a charity by posting ill informed and frankly dangerous drivel. Speed limited cars in particular must be resisted at all costs for safe roads and no one should be allowed to put up info like this without proper evidence and research.
arrgh, thankfully the GF has just arrived from work and I won't get wound up reading this nonsense anymore.
Just noticed there is a wee guideline section to keep your speed below the limit, but still nothing on driving more safely, i.e hitting someone at 20 is better than 30, newsflash NOT hitting them is a simple and effective safety technique
>> Edited by KB_S1 on Friday 15th July 22:53
I won't name the site out of fairness but it is named after a part of your car!
The site encourages drivers to slow down to save lives, despite posting no evidence of any causal link, only saying that deaths caused by drink drivers were more than likely to involve high speed(good solid evidence there then).
the bit that got me though was the section on how to control the speed of your vehicle, i actually thought there might be some sensible driver skill related info in this but no, the solutions are camera's, speed bumps and speed limited vehicles! what about the driver? it is all possible through driver skill, education and awareness.
These people are campaigning for a worthy cause, road safety, but they are abusing the position of a charity by posting ill informed and frankly dangerous drivel. Speed limited cars in particular must be resisted at all costs for safe roads and no one should be allowed to put up info like this without proper evidence and research.
arrgh, thankfully the GF has just arrived from work and I won't get wound up reading this nonsense anymore.
Just noticed there is a wee guideline section to keep your speed below the limit, but still nothing on driving more safely, i.e hitting someone at 20 is better than 30, newsflash NOT hitting them is a simple and effective safety technique
>> Edited by KB_S1 on Friday 15th July 22:53
Been thinking about this for a while lately.
Instead off slagging campaigners off from each side of the argument perhaps an event of some type could be arranged, where members/supporters of each group could meet, i.e someone from Brake and another from SafeSpeed. Consult over what they feel to be important safety matters and then take an extended drive with each taking turns.
It could even involve retired Police Class One as a supervisor.
each would be obliged to drive as they do everyday and perhaps a greater understanding of the viewpoints of drivers from a PH type background could be better understood.
I am not a perfect driver but I stand by the fact that in over 50,000miles of mixed driving situations I have not had an accident. i am also always keen to learn and improve but i am also aware that this message of slowing down and you will be safe is seriously flawed.
I would also argue that any situations where I exceed the speed limit or overtake slower traffic cause no danger to others and that limiting the speed of my vehicle would be detrimental to road safety.
There you are then i volunteer to put my views and driving on the line for any member of Brake (or similar) to scrutinise.
Instead off slagging campaigners off from each side of the argument perhaps an event of some type could be arranged, where members/supporters of each group could meet, i.e someone from Brake and another from SafeSpeed. Consult over what they feel to be important safety matters and then take an extended drive with each taking turns.
It could even involve retired Police Class One as a supervisor.
each would be obliged to drive as they do everyday and perhaps a greater understanding of the viewpoints of drivers from a PH type background could be better understood.
I am not a perfect driver but I stand by the fact that in over 50,000miles of mixed driving situations I have not had an accident. i am also always keen to learn and improve but i am also aware that this message of slowing down and you will be safe is seriously flawed.
I would also argue that any situations where I exceed the speed limit or overtake slower traffic cause no danger to others and that limiting the speed of my vehicle would be detrimental to road safety.
There you are then i volunteer to put my views and driving on the line for any member of Brake (or similar) to scrutinise.
KB_S1 said:
Instead off slagging campaigners off from each side of the argument perhaps an event of some type could be arranged, where members/supporters of each group could meet, i.e someone from Brake and another from SafeSpeed. Consult over what they feel to be important safety matters and then take an extended drive with each taking turns.
I think that's a massive distraction (with all due respect). I don't want to slag Brake off, I want them to face up to the limitations in the data and the claims they are making. Their case doesn't even remotely hold water.
If there's to be an 'event', I'd like it to concentrate on the analysis, data and facts, as opposed to any individual's skill as a driver.
But I don't think Brake will face me in debate. They have declined the opportunity on numerous occasions. Perhaps they know their data doesn't hold water? Now there's a frightening thought. If they know their data doesn't hold water, why would they promote it? Blind faith? Or some other agenda?
SafeSpeed
i wasn't intending this as a individual skill demonstration, just a way to put a point of view across with evidence, i.e. a smooth safe drive. i understand where you are coming from with the facts, figures and analysis thing though.
There really should be tighter control on what an official body or charity for example is allowed to publish. i do not have research or evidence other than personal experience to back up my opinions so therefore i will not try and use statistical examples.
i wasn't intending this as a individual skill demonstration, just a way to put a point of view across with evidence, i.e. a smooth safe drive. i understand where you are coming from with the facts, figures and analysis thing though.
There really should be tighter control on what an official body or charity for example is allowed to publish. i do not have research or evidence other than personal experience to back up my opinions so therefore i will not try and use statistical examples.
KB_S1 said:
SafeSpeed
i wasn't intending this as a individual skill demonstration, just a way to put a point of view across with evidence, i.e. a smooth safe drive. i understand where you are coming from with the facts, figures and analysis thing though.
There really should be tighter control on what an official body or charity for example is allowed to publish. i do not have research or evidence other than personal experience to back up my opinions so therefore i will not try and use statistical examples.
KB S1 - you are making a lot of sense in what you say.
I don't know about the merits of the practical driving comparisons, but I do wonder just what kind of drivers some of these Brake type people really are. My guess is that they are generally slow, and therefore perceived by some to be well behaved, but I doubt if they are particularly skilled or safe. It seems clear that they have very little understanding about how to make any meaningful improvement in our road safety situation. That needs improved driver ability, but what they are advocating will produce the reverse of that, namely a dumbing down and de-skilling process.
Like you, I don't take much notice of the arguments about statistics, as I don't trust the accuracy of them so I base my opinions on experience and my own observations. It's not very scientific but it is no use sounding all scientific if your figures are wrong.
For the time being I shall therefore stick to the guidance provided by long term experience.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
ed22 said:
Paul,
Assume you've attempted to get the BBC/ other worthies to stage a debate between yourselves and Brake?
With the current news item on delaying implementation of Speed cameras it'd certainly be a programme I'd imagine would get good viewing figures.
Yeah. Follow the link in the third post in this thread. The PR went just about everywhere. (A list of about 800)
edited to add: It's early days yet. I'll chase up some options on Monday. I couldn't be more serious about the debate challenge. It's not the first and none have been cancelled. See:
www.safespeed.org.uk/forum/viewforum.php?f=18
I'd be more than delighted if you guys wrote to significant 'opponents' and asked them why they haven't accepted the challenges.
>> Edited by safespeed on Saturday 16th July 21:57
KB_S1 said:
SafeSpeed
i wasn't intending this as a individual skill demonstration, just a way to put a point of view across with evidence,
These types of groups are not interested in evidence. This is a religious issue, not a rational one. Either you're for them, or you're a baby-killer - there is no middle ground.
zumbruk said:
This is a religious issue, not a rational one. Either you're for them, or you're a baby-killer - there is no middle ground.
Funnily enough, I heard about some other people like that...they killed a load of Londoners the other week!!!
...and no, I'm not being flippant or trying to belittle the London bombings...such blinkered, unwavering, xenophobic belief to the exclusion of all other options and all other opinions is characteristic of both Brake and Al Qaeda. They differ only in their cause and their methods, the mindset is the same.
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