How much motorway to close for a fire one side?

[saaby93]

Yesterday an M5 fire on the hardshoulder one side near J11 meant it was closed both ways from 8 to 11
How much closure is excessive? and surely the nearby A road the A38 should be the M5 alternative - what's happened to it?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-57828101

[SpeckledJim]

dunno, but maybe it depends on the wind conditions and the smoke.

I remember a terrible, fatal pile-up one year caused by a firework display close to the motorway which caused heavy smoke to drift across the carriageway basically without notice. Terrifying.

[Beati Dogu]

It was on the M5 near Taunton in 2011. It was mostly due to thick fog, although smoke from a bonfire night show at the nearby rugby club didn't exactly help. There was a huge pile up that killed 7 people and injured over 50.

[FNG]

I passed a burning petrol tanker once on the M74 early in the morning, it was on the hard shoulder northbound as I was passing southbound.

A very impressive sight, a 40ft tanker fully ablaze with flames 40-50ft into the air (and a smoke plume you could see from 30 miles away).

I drove past at about 30mph, in lane 1, and still the heat felt like opening a hot oven.

That's through the glass, with at least 15m separation between my car and the fire.

So yeah depending on the size of the blaze alone they'd be justified in closing both ways. Then considering smoke, wind, rubberneckers slowing to stare at it...

[saaby93]

FNG said:

I passed a burning petrol tanker once on the M74 early in the morning, it was on the hard shoulder northbound as I was passing southbound.

A very impressive sight, a 40ft tanker fully ablaze with flames 40-50ft into the air (and a smoke plume you could see from 30 miles away).

I drove past at about 30mph, in lane 1, and still the heat felt like opening a hot oven.

That's through the glass, with at least 15m separation between my car and the fire.

So yeah depending on the size of the blaze alone they'd be justified in closing both ways. Then considering smoke, wind, rubberneckers slowing to stare at it...

15 metres may be less than a 3 lane carriageway
How far it is from 8 to 11?

[Mr Pointy]

saaby93 said:

Yesterday an M5 fire on the hardshoulder one side near J11 meant it was closed both ways from 8 to 11
How much closure is excessive? and surely the nearby A road the A38 should be the M5 alternative - what's happened to it?

They nick bits of formerly main roads, divert them, renumber them & before you know it they are lost & you can no longer follow them. I think parts of the A34 are now the A3400 but you can't drive down what it used to be.

Here is a history of the A38:
https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/wiki/index.php?titl...

[sunbeam alpine]

saaby93 said:

Yesterday an M5 fire on the hardshoulder one side near J11 meant it was closed both ways from 8 to 11

I don't know the area (and Google maps isn't helping much) but could it be that the road network between J8 and J11 is best suited to the volume of traffic being diverted off the motorway?

[GloverMart]

I drive through this area regularly. Junction 8 is the M50 which would feed into the A417 and then the A40 back on to the motorway at Junction 11.

Juncxtion 9 (Tewkesbury) and Junction 10 (Cheltenham) would be an even longer-winded diversion on smaller roads too.

[wazztie16]

sunbeam alpine said:

saaby93 said:

Yesterday an M5 fire on the hardshoulder one side near J11 meant it was closed both ways from 8 to 11

I don't know the area (and Google maps isn't helping much) but could it be that the road network between J8 and J11 is best suited to the volume of traffic being diverted off the motorway?

Yes, I would think to allow lorries to stay on major arterial routes rather than having to use smaller roads. It makes sense to those that give it some thought.

[CubanPete]

The A38 would take you into Gloucester, and is often pretty slow moving so wouldn't be a great diversion.

One of the junctions is funny in you can only get off / on in one direction.

Depends what is burning. Visibility and noxious fumes may well want you to avoid the other side of the motorway.

[saaby93]

This one looks more impressive
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-578394...

[Glosphil]

I was driving from Sheffield to just south of Stroud & our journey was disrupted by that fire on the M5. A usual drive time of under 2-3/4 hours became over 4 hours.
We left the M42 at J3 & went around Redditch & Eversham to Cheltenham & joined the M5 at J11. Motorway was then almost empty down to junction J13. Going north there was more than a 1 mile queue to leave the M5 at J11.

[Digga]

I passed a truck fire on a 3 lane motorway once. Truck was over on opposite carriageway hard shoulder. I was in lane 2 or 3, windows up, and the heat was pretty scary. Would not want to be stationary opposite.

[littleredrooster]

If you've ever seen a wagon tyre go Bang when it's on fire, you wouldn't even want to be on the same motorway let alone the opposite carriageway!

[BossHogg]

saaby93 said:

Yesterday an M5 fire on the hardshoulder one side near J11 meant it was closed both ways from 8 to 11
How much closure is excessive? and surely the nearby A road the A38 should be the M5 alternative - what's happened to it?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-57828101

It depends on the diversion route. Some of the roads have low bridges which mean double decker lorries can't use them. Local knowledge also comes into play. If you're in a car and know the low bridge, you can use it.

[FNG]

saaby93 said:

FNG said:

I passed a burning petrol tanker once on the M74 early in the morning, it was on the hard shoulder northbound as I was passing southbound.

A very impressive sight, a 40ft tanker fully ablaze with flames 40-50ft into the air (and a smoke plume you could see from 30 miles away).

I drove past at about 30mph, in lane 1, and still the heat felt like opening a hot oven.

That's through the glass, with at least 15m separation between my car and the fire.

So yeah depending on the size of the blaze alone they'd be justified in closing both ways. Then considering smoke, wind, rubberneckers slowing to stare at it...

15 metres may be less than a 3 lane carriageway
How far it is from 8 to 11?

I didn't have a tape measure handy, or someone in a heat resistant suit to hold the other end, so relied on googling which reckons a standard motorway lane is about 3m wide.

3 lanes on the other side, 2 on my side, plus a median strip. I didn't see how wide that was, I was looking at the huge mucking great blazing inferno on the other side of the road.

(I estimated)

[GloverMart]

saaby93 said:

FNG said:

I passed a burning petrol tanker once on the M74 early in the morning, it was on the hard shoulder northbound as I was passing southbound.

A very impressive sight, a 40ft tanker fully ablaze with flames 40-50ft into the air (and a smoke plume you could see from 30 miles away).

I drove past at about 30mph, in lane 1, and still the heat felt like opening a hot oven.

That's through the glass, with at least 15m separation between my car and the fire.

So yeah depending on the size of the blaze alone they'd be justified in closing both ways. Then considering smoke, wind, rubberneckers slowing to stare at it...

15 metres may be less than a 3 lane carriageway
How far it is from 8 to 11?

According to Wikipedia, it's 11.3 miles from Junction 8 to Junction 11.

[Gafferjim]

I believe that it was a HGV that was on fire? If it was, then you have the problem with smoke, and also the problem with tyres bursting, a HGV tyre has around 110 psi air pressure, when they 'go' they can shoot flaming large lumps of burning sticky melting rubber across the whole motorway and into the verge on the other side.
I also believe that the incident that you're talking about, there was a cracking photograph of it at it's height on the 'net. It was a HGV carrying aerosol cans, these are flying bombs when they catch fire, you do not want one of those flying across and through your window as you pass.

[Pontoneer]

saaby93 said:

Yesterday an M5 fire on the hardshoulder one side near J11 meant it was closed both ways from 8 to 11
How much closure is excessive? and surely the nearby A road the A38 should be the M5 alternative - what's happened to it?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-57828101

Sometimes it can be to allow emergency services to get to the incident from the opposite side ; a few years back we had a tanker on fire on the M74 near Lesmahagow ; queuing traffic behind the incident blocked that side of the motorway , so police closed the other side for us so we could access from the opposite carriageway and set up dams and use compressed air foam to extinguish the fire . We ended up having vehicles on both sides of the married until it was dealt with ; the tanker was on the hard shoulder and the heat melted the tarmac as well as making it too hot for vehicles to pass , even on the other side .

[Pontoneer]

FNG said:

I passed a burning petrol tanker once on the M74 early in the morning, it was on the hard shoulder northbound as I was passing southbound.

A very impressive sight, a 40ft tanker fully ablaze with flames 40-50ft into the air (and a smoke plume you could see from 30 miles away).

I drove past at about 30mph, in lane 1, and still the heat felt like opening a hot oven.

That's through the glass, with at least 15m separation between my car and the fire.

So yeah depending on the size of the blaze alone they'd be justified in closing both ways. Then considering smoke, wind, rubberneckers slowing to stare at it...

Yep , that is the incident I attended .