Different speed limits displayed on motorway - got flashed

[ivrytwr3]

Travelling on the M6 last Friday there were physical road signs saying 60, my sat nav said 60, but then there were electronic signs overhead that were saying 50 - seems they were warning of congestion up ahead 
.
I was doing around 60 I think and saw a camera flash in my rear mirror - bugger!

I take it the electronic signs take priority?

[Sofa]

Assuming the electronic '50' signs were in a nice big red circle... then yes, the gantry signs very much take priority.

The speed limit display on your sat-nav in a stretch of smart motorway is about as useful as a chocolate teapot...

Edited by Sofa on Sunday 1st August 03:14

Edited by Sofa on Sunday 1st August 03:14

[Plymo]

ivrytwr3 said:

Travelling on the M6 last Friday there were physical road signs saying 60, my sat nav said 60, but then there were electronic signs overhead that were saying 50 - seems they were warning of congestion up ahead 
.
I was doing around 60 I think and saw a camera flash in my rear mirror - bugger!

I take it the electronic signs take priority?

Question - were the electronic signs displaying speeds in a red circle (mandatory, "smart" motorway)
Or were they amber ones, perhaps with some flashing amber lights (Advisory, and often wrong)
If it was a section of smart motorway though, you will have passed a sign with an NSL symbol with "Variable Speed Limit" under it.
I can't think of anywhere that has a signposted lower limit (50, 60, etc) AND a proper variable speed limit section.
The only exception being if there's a "smart" motorway with variable limits, and they've put up temporary speed limit signs up on boards (not actually seen this happen though, and no idea what the priority would be!)

[Tebbers]

If the electronic sign had a big red circle around the number, then it’s pretty concerning that you don’t know what it means!

[SS2.]

Advisory



Mandatory

[Sheepshanks]

Tebbers said:

If the electronic sign had a big red circle around the number, then it’s pretty concerning that you don’t know what it means!

I was thinking that! If an 8yr plus member on here queries it then no wonder so many people seem to ignore them.

[ivrytwr3]

They were red circle signs.

Was just very strange, there were signs saying road works as we entered the stretch of road and then loads of signs on the road side showing 60mph, then there were also the red signs showing 50mph.

Literally one sign saying 60 and another saying 50 - looks like the digital signs took priority.

Ta.

[Wax1234]

ivrytwr3 said:

They were red circle signs.

Was just very strange, there were signs saying road works as we entered the stretch of road and then loads of signs on the road side showing 60mph, then there were also the red signs showing 50mph.

Literally one sign saying 60 and another saying 50 - looks like the digital signs took priority.

Ta.

I don’t see what’s strange about it?

Roadworks caused the limit to be reduced to 60mph. Conditions or something else further reduced it to 50mph as displayed by the overhead signs.

It’s common sense to follow the lower speed.

[martinbiz]

I am stunned that anyone has to even ask this question

[donkmeister]

martinbiz said:

I am stunned that anyone has to even ask this question

In fairness, two contradictory speed limit signs shows a failure on the part of the road managers; they shouldnt be using fixed signs where there are active variable speed gantries, so this isn't a standard situation. Saying that, I would have erred on the side of caution though.

OP, speed limit indications inside the car should only be used as a reminder rather than a replacement for your own observations of the signage. I find them more useful with the somewhat chaotic speed limit changes of our continental cousins than in the UK where things are generally clearer and don't change several times in a few hundred metres. The ones I've used don't anticipate speed limit changes, so they don't warn you "it's 70mph here, but you might want to start slowing down for that 50mph up ahead".

[Nickyboy]

donkmeister said:

In fairness, two contradictory speed limit signs shows a failure on the part of the road managers; they shouldnt be using fixed signs where there are active variable speed gantries, so this isn't a standard situation. Saying that, I would have erred on the side of caution though.

OP, speed limit indications inside the car should only be used as a reminder rather than a replacement for your own observations of the signage. I find them more useful with the somewhat chaotic speed limit changes of our continental cousins than in the UK where things are generally clearer and don't change several times in a few hundred metres. The ones I've used don't anticipate speed limit changes, so they don't warn you "it's 70mph here, but you might want to start slowing down for that 50mph up ahead".

How is it different to the national speed limit being 70 yet overhead signs tell you it's 50 or 60? They operate depending on traffic conditions so are likely to change, everyone knows this. They can't exactly rush out to take the roadwork signs down if they feel the need to lower the limit due to an incident etc.

[essayer]

IMO the variable speed limit would be unenforceable in this case

[reddiesel]

I got caught out on this myself a few years back and did the obligatory course , apparently the signs can be activated due to air pollution and nothing to do with road conditions . I was doing 60mph in the 70mph limit when I saw the overhead sign display 50mph , in the distance I could see the Gantries ahead displaying National Speed Limit signs , I didn't bother to brake so I was done !

[Pothole]

donkmeister said:

martinbiz said:

I am stunned that anyone has to even ask this question

In fairness, two contradictory speed limit signs shows a failure on the part of the road managers; they shouldnt be using fixed signs where there are active variable speed gantries, so this isn't a standard situation. Saying that, I would have erred on the side of caution though.

OP, speed limit indications inside the car should only be used as a reminder rather than a replacement for your own observations of the signage. I find them more useful with the somewhat chaotic speed limit changes of our continental cousins than in the UK where things are generally clearer and don't change several times in a few hundred metres. The ones I've used don't anticipate speed limit changes, so they don't warn you "it's 70mph here, but you might want to start slowing down for that 50mph up ahead".

There's a section of 60mph either side of Junction 10 at the moment because they're moving the overbridges out to make the roundabout bigger and improve the junction overall. There are fixed signs covering it, presumably because using the overhead matrix signs would make the 60mph section twice as long.

I don't think this is where the OP was flashed, though, as there are no cameras on that section.

[martinbiz]

donkmeister said:

In fairness, two contradictory speed limit signs shows a failure on the part of the road managers; they shouldnt be using fixed signs where there are active variable speed gantries, so this isn't a standard situation.

Rubbish, a totally standard situation, the road has a signed speed limit, could be temporary or permanent and it has been reduced by a variable gantry signal for any of several possible reasons

[martinbiz]

essayer said:

IMO the variable speed limit would be unenforceable in this case

sorry chap, not so, would be interesting to know what would lead you to think that?

[Chrisgr31]

martinbiz said:

donkmeister said:

In fairness, two contradictory speed limit signs shows a failure on the part of the road managers; they shouldnt be using fixed signs where there are active variable speed gantries, so this isn't a standard situation.

Rubbish, a totally standard situation, the road has a signed speed limit, could be temporary or permanent and it has been reduced by a variable gantry signal for any of several possible reasons

Its not a standard situation at all. There should be one speedlimit posted and one only. In a variable speed limit area the speed limit that applies is shown on the gantry, there arent fixed signs in addition to the gantry,

[meatballs]

You could argue the overhead is in force until the next physical sign and vice versa. It's obviously not what's intended though.

[martinbiz]

Chrisgr31 said:

martinbiz said:

donkmeister said:

In fairness, two contradictory speed limit signs shows a failure on the part of the road managers; they shouldnt be using fixed signs where there are active variable speed gantries, so this isn't a standard situation.

Rubbish, a totally standard situation, the road has a signed speed limit, could be temporary or permanent and it has been reduced by a variable gantry signal for any of several possible reasons

Its not a standard situation at all. There should be one speedlimit posted and one only. In a variable speed limit area the speed limit that applies is shown on the gantry, there arent fixed signs in addition to the gantry,

Jeez yes it is! Drove through exactly that situation on Friday on the M4, 60 signed through the road works and gantry signs reducing it to 40 for a couple of miles due to conjestion. using your Logic a signed NSL 70mph dual carriage way could never have a variable limit shown unless they rush around and cover up all the NSL signs first

[essayer]

martinbiz said:

sorry chap, not so, would be interesting to know what would lead you to think that?

The M6 Motorway (Junctions 13 to 15) (Variable Speed Limits) Regulations 2021

“3 (2) A section of a road is subject to a variable speed limit in relation to a vehicle being driven along it if—
(a)the road is specified in the Schedule;

(b)the vehicle has passed a speed limit sign;

(c)the vehicle has not subsequently passed—

(i)another speed limit sign indicating a different speed limit; or

(ii)a traffic sign which indicates that the national speed limit is in force; and

(d)no speed restriction is in force by virtue of—

(i)an order or notice under section 14(4) of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984; or

(ii)a traffic sign placed by a traffic officer pursuant to section 7 of the Traffic Management Act 2004(5).”

Assuming not 3(2)d I would assume the variable speed limit no longer applies as other speed limit signs are shown